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[Dave of Canada]

Sarah1281 wrote...


Maybe she's hoping to dislodge whatever it is in your brain that's convincing you to keep doing really obvious things that you should know by now will make her turn against you and that are pretty clear even without metagaming? Telling someone about Anora two minutes after Anora says 'don't tell anyone about me', telling Anora whose only goal in life is to be queen that you're going to support Alistair instead, or telling her all about how you want to kill her beloved father even if a miraculous third option presents itself really shouldn't make her switching sides all that shocking.

She also betrays you if you're a male Cousland, set her up to marry you and say she's to be queen. She doesn't honor her bargain and since she got what she wanted, she pretty much goes "lol".

[Sarah1281]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...


Maybe she's hoping to dislodge whatever it is in your brain that's convincing you to keep doing really obvious things that you should know by now will make her turn against you and that are pretty clear even without metagaming? Telling someone about Anora two minutes after Anora says 'don't tell anyone about me', telling Anora whose only goal in life is to be queen that you're going to support Alistair instead, or telling her all about how you want to kill her beloved father even if a miraculous third option presents itself really shouldn't make her switching sides all that shocking.

She also betrays you if you're a male Cousland, set her up to marry you and say she's to be queen. She doesn't honor her bargain and since she got what she wanted, she pretty much goes "lol".

That's not a betrayal. That's you ****ing up. You say 'I think you'll need to stand by me at the Landsmeet to become queen.' She agrees. You are asked to pick who is going to rule. You didn't follow the terms of the agreement and say 'Anora will rule and I'll be her consort.' You showed that she can take the throne alone and since you literally had the power to single-handedly make yourself her consort and didn't, why should she fix your mistake later? 

[TJPags]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...


Maybe she's hoping to dislodge whatever it is in your brain that's convincing you to keep doing really obvious things that you should know by now will make her turn against you and that are pretty clear even without metagaming? Telling someone about Anora two minutes after Anora says 'don't tell anyone about me', telling Anora whose only goal in life is to be queen that you're going to support Alistair instead, or telling her all about how you want to kill her beloved father even if a miraculous third option presents itself really shouldn't make her switching sides all that shocking.

She also betrays you if you're a male Cousland, set her up to marry you and say she's to be queen. She doesn't honor her bargain and since she got what she wanted, she pretty much goes "lol".

Huh?  How so?  I've played the HNM several times.

Aside from her backing out of the marriage if I'm the one who kills Loghain - which I suppose I can understand - she doesn't back out of anything.  She shows up, throws full support behind me, and marries me as we planned.

What did you do to have her backing out of the wedding????

[Dave of Canada]

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's not a betrayal. That's you ****ing up. You say 'I think you'll need to stand by me at the Landsmeet to become queen.' She agrees. You are asked to pick who is going to rule. You didn't follow the terms of the agreement and say 'Anora will rule and I'll be her consort.' You showed that she can take the throne alone and since you literally had the power to single-handedly make yourself her consort and didn't, why should she fix your mistake later? 

I agreed under the terms of making Anora the ruler with me standing in the shadows, infront of everybody I told her that she has the power (he-man voice). She turns around and tells me "lol noob you should've put a claim of power for yourself".

[Dave of Canada]

TJPags wrote...

Huh?  How so?  I've played the HNM several times.

Aside from her backing out of the marriage if I'm the one who kills Loghain - which I suppose I can understand - she doesn't back out of anything.  She shows up, throws full support behind me, and marries me as we planned.

What did you do to have her backing out of the wedding????

You're given three options:
Anora will rule!
Alistair will rule!
Anora will rule, I'll be her consort... in the back over here!

If you pick the "Anora will rule", she doesn't honor the marriage and essentially says that she was using you. This left me a very bitter Cousland.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Sarah1281]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's not a betrayal. That's you ****ing up. You say 'I think you'll need to stand by me at the Landsmeet to become queen.' She agrees. You are asked to pick who is going to rule. You didn't follow the terms of the agreement and say 'Anora will rule and I'll be her consort.' You showed that she can take the throne alone and since you literally had the power to single-handedly make yourself her consort and didn't, why should she fix your mistake later? 

I agreed under the terms of making Anora the ruler with me standing in the shadows, infront of everybody I told her that she has the power (he-man voice). She turns around and tells me "lol noob you should've put a claim of power for yourself".

You cannot claim more power than her at the Landsmeet. You just claim Anora as the ruler and mention your marriage. If you chose not to for whatever reason then, really, you're the one who doesn't enforce it. She's not marrying you because she likes you or is grateful to you and Eamon even points out that remarrying that soon looks pretty bad so she'd only do it if she had compelling reasons to do so. You convince her that her claim will be strengthened if she marries you. If that's never brought up to the Landsmeet at all and Anora takes the throne on her own then there is no longer any political reason for this political marriage.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:11 .

[Sarah1281]

If you pick the "Anora will rule", she doesn't honor the marriage and essentially says that she was using you. This left me a very bitter Cousland.

This is a marriage of convenience. Or, in other words, "A marriage or joint undertaking arranged for political, economic, or social benefit rather than from personal attachment." She agrees because she thinks it will help her take the throne. Once you put her on the throne without you, there's no need to marry you. You were really HURT because she didn't marry you out of gratitidue when there was no reason to do so or because she really liked you? She knew you for maybe a week. At most.

[TJPags]

Dave of Canada wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Huh?  How so?  I've played the HNM several times.

Aside from her backing out of the marriage if I'm the one who kills Loghain - which I suppose I can understand - she doesn't back out of anything.  She shows up, throws full support behind me, and marries me as we planned.

What did you do to have her backing out of the wedding????

You're given three options:
Anora will rule!
Alistair will rule!
Anora will rule, I'll be her consort... in the back over here!

If you pick the "Anora will rule", she doesn't honor the marriage and essentially says that she was using you. This left me a very bitter Cousland.

Hmmm.  Well, my take on this is as follows:

I suggested the marriage to her.  I'm the one the Landsmeet gives the choice to.  If I don't elect to announce our marriage, that's hardly her fault.  Basically, we made a deal - she supports me, I'll make her Queen, and she agrees that she will marry me.  She supported me, as planned.  I made her Queen, as planned.  If I didn't choose to take the next step, how is that HER fault?  I mean, she doesn't seem thrilled by the idea of marrying me, it's not like she's in love with me, rather she seems to view it as a political arrangement - which it is. 

If I don't push it, when it's my option to do so, well, I screwed up, didn't I?

[Dave of Canada]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You cannot claim more power than her at the Landsmeet.

I know, however it was mentioned by Anora that she doesn't want me to struggle against her. I was given three decisions, one where I casually mention to somebody about marrying her. I'm not yelling it out to the entire Landsmeet, that's what Anora does yelling that I'm to be her husband.

We arranged our marriage to each other, she told me that I'm not to interfere with her and I didn't. I gave the crown to her and she announced to everybody she was to be the sole queen, even though I suspected she would've said in her post-choice dialogue that she'd be marrying me.

It isn't like my Warden is yelling out he's marrying Anora.

You just claim Anora as the ruler and mention your marriage. If you chose not to for whatever reason then, really, you're the one who doesn't enforce it.

I read the line suggesting that my character is going "I'm also the king", it sounded sort of... off(?) for what the terms were. I decided to pick the Anora one because at least then my character would remain in the shadows as agreed.

She's not marrying you because she likes you or is grateful to you and Eamon even points out that remarrying that soon looks pretty bad so she'd only do it if she had compelling reasons to do so.

Doesn't mean she can sidestep a promise.

You convince her that her claim will be strengthened if she marries you. If that's never brought up to the Landsmeet at all and Anora takes the throne on her own then there is no longer any political reason for this political marriage.

The marriage would also strengthen her rule, not just her chances at the Landsmeet. Or so the dialogue leading to the marriage seems to suggest.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:19 .

[Monica21]

Dave of Canada wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Huh?  How so?  I've played the HNM several times.

Aside from her backing out of the marriage if I'm the one who kills Loghain - which I suppose I can understand - she doesn't back out of anything.  She shows up, throws full support behind me, and marries me as we planned.

What did you do to have her backing out of the wedding????

You're given three options:
Anora will rule!
Alistair will rule!
Anora will rule, I'll be her consort... in the back over here!

If you pick the "Anora will rule", she doesn't honor the marriage and essentially says that she was using you. This left me a very bitter Cousland.

Yes, because she was, just as you were using her. Or did you think she fell in love with you during the two minutes of dialogue you had? And if you choose "Anora will rule" then you're the one not honoring the marriage, not her. Like Sarah said, it's not up to her to fix your mistake.

[Sarah1281]

I read the line suggesting that my character is going "I'm also the king", it sounded sort of... off(?) for what the terms were. I decided to pick the Anora one because at least then my character would remain in the shadows as agreed.

But in doing this you get rid of any reason she had to marry you. She doesn't agree to marry you to strengthen her rule, she does it so that she can get to rule in the first place. If Anora is declared Queen and that is accepted, how would her 'yelling' that she's going to marry you now help her get the throne she's already gotten? It's entirely unnecessary.

Doesn't mean she can't sidestep a promise.

You broke the terms first. She agreed to marry you SO THAT THE MARRIAGE WOULD GET HER THE THRONE. You gave her the throne without the marriage. There is no reason for the marriage now.

[Dave of Canada]

Monica21 wrote...

Yes, because she was, just as you were using her. Or did you think she fell in love with you during the two minutes of dialogue you had?

Of course not, however I don't see how her using somebody by backing on her words doesn't mean a betrayal.

And if you choose "Anora will rule" then you're the one not honoring the marriage, not her.

Except... you know, she's the Queen and she has to announce who she's going to marry instead of the nobody former-teryn's son Warden. It seems rather forceful to go and tell her we're marrying in the Landsmeet chamber when I promised to her I wouldn't interfere.

[Persephone]

TJPags wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...


Maybe she's hoping to dislodge whatever it is in your brain that's convincing you to keep doing really obvious things that you should know by now will make her turn against you and that are pretty clear even without metagaming? Telling someone about Anora two minutes after Anora says 'don't tell anyone about me', telling Anora whose only goal in life is to be queen that you're going to support Alistair instead, or telling her all about how you want to kill her beloved father even if a miraculous third option presents itself really shouldn't make her switching sides all that shocking.

She also betrays you if you're a male Cousland, set her up to marry you and say she's to be queen. She doesn't honor her bargain and since she got what she wanted, she pretty much goes "lol".

Huh?  How so?  I've played the HNM several times.

Aside from her backing out of the marriage if I'm the one who kills Loghain - which I suppose I can understand

IMO her not wanting to marry the man who just butchered her beloved father in front of her and splattered her with his blood....is more than understandable.

[Dave of Canada]

Sarah1281 wrote...

But in doing this you get rid of any reason she had to marry you. She doesn't agree to marry you to strengthen her rule, she does it so that she can get to rule in the first place. If Anora is declared Queen and that is accepted, how would her 'yelling' that she's going to marry you now help her get the throne she's already gotten? It's entirely unnecessary.

It would strengthen her position, isn't that what she wants? Hell, it's one of the main reasons she marries Alistair.

[ejoslin]

Oh geez, Alistair won't marry a HNF if she doesn't say she'll rule beside him at the landsmeet -- even if he's in love (this has been a rude surprise to many an Alistair fan who was expecting a proposal after the landsmeet).  '

Hah, it could be seen as you breaking your engagement to HER -- you put her on the throne but don't mention that you will be ruling as well.  THAT needs to go before the landsmeet as well, after all.

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:28 .

[Monica21]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Of course not, however I don't see how her using somebody by backing on her words doesn't mean a betrayal.

She didn't betray you. You told the Landsmeet she would rule alone and thus there is no reason for the marriage. A big part of the reason she agreed to it was because it would strengthen her claim. Because the Landsmeet doesn't need a stronger claim, she doesn't need to marry you.

Except... you know, she's the Queen and she has to announce who she's going to marry instead of the nobody former-teryn's son Warden. It seems rather forceful to go and tell her we're marrying in the Landsmeet chamber when I promised to her I wouldn't interfere.

The only thing you did was pick the wrong dialogue choice. "Anora will rule" means "Anora will rule alone." It may seem forceful, but that's the only way to get the marriage to proceed. I don't know what to tell you except that you did it wrong.

[Sarah1281]

Except... you know, she's the Queen and she has to announce who she's going to marry instead of the nobody former-teryn's son Warden. It seems rather forceful to go and tell her we're marrying in the Landsmeet chamber when I promised to her I wouldn't interfere.

No one is saying that she can't marry you. She could announce even without prompting that she'll marry you. She won't do it nor should she. What line are you referring to when she asked you not to interfere? She tells you that she doesn't want you to think that you're going to be the ruling king and to have power over her but that's hardly the same as 'don't tell anybody we're getting married because I want to do it!'



The promise is not "If you put me on the throne then I will marry you." The promise is "If you stand with me at the Landsmeet so it's not just me but me+Cousland that the Landsmeet picks then I'm willing to have you as my consort for the added boost over Alistair." If you do not give her this boost then you broke the promise first regardless of her taking the throne.

It would strengthen her position, isn't that what she wants? Hell, it's one of the main reasons she marries Alistair.

Her position doesn't NEED to be strengthened at that point! She's already queen! And she doesn't marry Alistair to strengthen her position. She does it because you A) tell her you will support her only if she marries him or when asked to choose a ruler pick both of them and if Anora refuses and Alistair agrees then he'd probably be chosen over her. If she was chosen solo then she wouldn't marry Alistair even if it was promised nor should she.

[Dave of Canada]

Monica21 wrote...

She didn't betray you. You told the Landsmeet she would rule alone and thus there is no reason for the marriage. A big part of the reason she agreed to it was because it would strengthen her claim. Because the Landsmeet doesn't need a stronger claim, she doesn't need to marry you.

I think we're only going to go around in circles with this argument.

The only thing you did was pick the wrong dialogue choice. "Anora will rule" means "Anora will rule alone." It may seem forceful, but that's the only way to get the marriage to proceed. I don't know what to tell you except that you did it wrong.

I didn't know that it was the only way, though. I followed her terms to the letter but she mocks me for thinking she'd honor her agreement.

Edit: And since this discussion seems to have no end in sight, I'll kindly step out and leave you to your Anora loving. I fear we're only going to go in circles endlessly.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:35 .

[TJPags]

Yea, seriously, YOU suggested the marriage, as part of the agreement to make her Queen.



When you make her Queen and DON'T try to enforce your own terms, that's not betrayal on her part, it's idiocy on yours.



And, umm, you're not a "nobody-former-Teryn's-son-Warden". You're the man who the entire nobility of Ferelden just agreed to let decide the future of the country. If you decide to make her Queen without marrying you, well, sucks to be you, don't it?

[Monica21]

Dave of Canada wrote...
I didn't know that it was the only way, though. I followed her terms to the letter but she mocks me for thinking she'd honor her agreement.

Well, now that you do know, you can't blame Anora, can you? And no, you didn't follow her terms. You didn't say you would rule beside her (or whatever the dialogue option is for males). That's just the way the game works.

@TJ, lol...

Modifié par Monica21, 24 octobre 2010 - 05:38 .

[Dave of Canada]

Monica21 wrote...

(or whatever the dialogue option is for males)

Replaying the scene now for ****s and giggles.

The line is "Anora will be queen, and I'll rule beside her."

[Monica21]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

(or whatever the dialogue option is for males)

Replaying the scene now for ****s and giggles.

The line is "Anora will be queen, and I'll rule beside her."

And that's the exact same dialogue HNFs get if they want to marry Alistair. You just have to pick the right one. I thought it was a bit presumptuous in my first playthrough to tell everyone I'd marry Alistair without even talking about it with him first, and the breakup was a bit shocking. At least you get the chance to talk to Anora beforehand.

[Dave of Canada]

Monica21 wrote...

And that's the exact same dialogue HNFs get if they want to marry Alistair. You just have to pick the right one. I thought it was a bit presumptuous in my first playthrough to tell everyone I'd marry Alistair without even talking about it with him first, and the breakup was a bit shocking. At least you get the chance to talk to Anora beforehand.

You don't have to push the option on Alistair before saying it?

[Sarah1281]

Nope. You never get to bring it up at all and he's a bit mystified by it all.

[Dave of Canada]

That's rather odd.



/neverplayedafemalewarden