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[errant_knight]

Dave of Canada wrote...

That's rather odd.

/neverplayedafemalewarden

Not really. He just wants to get the throne, and if that's what he has to do, so be it. If he's in love, he's fairly thrilled, so that's no surprise. As far as I know, he won't turn it down even if he hates the Cousland's guts, which is a little more surprising. I have to wonder if he already plans to die in that case.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

That's rather odd.

/neverplayedafemalewarden

Not really. He just wants to get the throne, and if that's what he has to do, so be it. If he's in love, he's fairly thrilled, so that's no surprise. As far as I know, he won't turn it down even if he hates the Cousland's guts, which is a little more surprising. I have to wonder if he already plans to die in that case.

Not quite.  Alistair, if hostile, will not marry a femwarden unless he's hardened, and it is really difficult to get him to drop down to hostile after he's hardened.  It's possible, but tricky.  However, whether he'll marry a femwarden for political reasons at other levels depends on the warden's persuade skill -- same with if he's involved but not in love.  If he is in love, it's an autoaccept.

His dialog is great if he rejects the Cousland.  

Edit: It's the one time you get a chance to say the line that I swear I'm itching to say the entire game, "I'm the Teyrna of Highever."

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 octobre 2010 - 09:39 .

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

That's rather odd.

/neverplayedafemalewarden

Not really. He just wants to get the throne, and if that's what he has to do, so be it. If he's in love, he's fairly thrilled, so that's no surprise. As far as I know, he won't turn it down even if he hates the Cousland's guts, which is a little more surprising. I have to wonder if he already plans to die in that case.

Not quite.  Alistair, if hostile, will not marry a femwarden unless he's hardened, and it is really difficult to get him to drop down to hostile after he's hardened.  It's possible, but tricky.  However, whether he'll marry a femwarden for political reasons at other levels depends on the warden's persuade skill -- same with if he's involved but not in love.  If he is in love, it's an autoaccept.

His dialog is great if he rejects the Cousland.  

Edit: It's the one time you get a chance to say the line that I swear I'm itching to say the entire game, "I'm the Teyrna of Highever."

Ah, that makes more sense!

[ejoslin]

Yeh, hmmmm, I'm just trying to think of how to do the hostile marriage....

Actually, it shouldn't be difficult at all -- it's just a matter of dropping by redcliff without actually talking to Tomas so he'll talk about Goldanna. I have never married him to a hostile warden before. Though I've seen the dialog for the most part -- his political marriage dialog is bugged so you get the hostile dialog for the most part without modding it :/

I'm not sure this is a playthrough I'd actually enjoy, though. I have to admit, though, the hate speech would be perfect just after telling him you're trying for an heir with someone else!  But hostile Alistair playthroughs do make me sad

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 octobre 2010 - 09:58 .

[Alistairs_Queen]

FutileSine wrote...

Alistairs_Queen wrote...

I have recently found myself an Anora convert. At first I hated her, probally just because she betrayed me at Fort Drakon, and lied to me. Now I see she actually was in danger. She's not all bad, I think she's just missunderstood. Like many charaters in DA. Loghain being another one. I finally recurited him, and he's got some wonderful insight to Anora. Every single ff i've read with her in the post blight, she's portrayed as evil. Not so, she's an effective ruler, is she going to please everyone? no, but no one can. I think she has real depth, she's just lost her husband, her father has plunged the land into civil war, then she's expected to step aside becase someone has found Calian's bastard brother? Really, people. DOn't get me wrong, I love Alistair. I had to force myself not to romance him just to get the Leliana, Morrigan, and Zevran acheivements. But he even says he doesn't want to be king. Anora wants to be Queen, and she's dang good at it. I also belive, in the case of a female Cousland warden, Anora would want to keep her as an ally.

Have you read any of the FF by "mutive" or "jessica_jones"?  Both those authors respect Anora - and their FF is truly some of the best concerning her that I've come across (currently reading JJ's "Love and Leviate" and its a fascinating look at how an Alistair/Anora marriage would be pulled off.)

Could I also just say that I really like the....hmmm...almost irony in your choice of username and then having you post what you did about Anora?    Its nice to see that people have open minds - I was the same way, at first.  Alistair all the way and Anora was the evil ice queen.  Wasn't until I started to read the FF listed above that I started to see the Queen in a whole new light.  Makes continuing to write a FF that I started before my conversion,  that has Alistair/Warden hating Anora really challenging....

No, I haven't.  are those on FF.net? where can I find them?  I would love to read someting with a non-evil Anora.  It's something I'm tackling in my own fic. 

Hehe, thank you.  I didn't notice the irony right away, If I could of posted my av with my Cousland I would have.  I do love my templar, but what I've always loved about bioware is they create charaters with such depth.  Like Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect, etc.  The second and third teir charaters had fleshed out backstories.  Dragon Age is no different.  I find myself wondering more about the minor players.  Loghain's wife, Dalish PC parents,  Shianni and Soris' parents. (Were they on Adaia's side or Cyrion's? What happened to them, and why is Cyrion raising them?)  and even Loghain.  Yes I said Loghain.  I haven't read the books yet, but I find him a very intresting charater.  He seems to regret leaving Calian to die, but Sten regretted killing the farmers.  Loghain offers some intresting insight to Anora if you recruit him.  Was he right? or just paraniod about Orlais?  But, I digress, this fourm is for Anora. 

Even more I wonder about Anora, we know her mother is dead, but did she die when Anora was young, or later?  Were there any other MacTeir children? if so what happened to them?  Is Anora really Barren?  or was this something Eamon assumed?  Did Calian actually cheat on her, or was that just rumor.  I tried looking for said information, but found nothing.     

I still can't belive Anora has no group, I'm tempted to start one, who's with me?

[CalJones]

There's little bits you can glean from Loghain's dialogue, after you recruit him. Anora's an only child, and his wife was called Celia and was also a commoner. She's dead, but we don't know how, or for how long.

If you try to arrange a marriage with Anora (I think this comes up if you're a female, romancing Alistair - I've not had it as a Cousland male) then Anora will call you on it and will say that "Cailan had his women." So I assume that is true - after all, I doubt any woman would admit to being cheated on if it wasn't true.

Her being barren is a rumour (Eamon writes about it in his letter to Cailan, and it's also in some tavern gossip) but we don't know for sure if that's the case. It could be that Cailan was firing blanks, or perhaps she was sneaking contraceptive herbs on the side because she didn't want kids. If you play a Cousland male who marries Anora and Loghain survives into Awakening, he has some amusing dialogue about whether you are planning an heir, and Anora's horrified look. One could take that as the idea of a child horrifying her, or just the fact she's not comfortable talking procreation with her dad, which is understandable.

As far as Orlais goes, David Gaider said (recently) that there was a whole cut subplot whereby Cailan was planning to divorce Anora in order to wed Celene, who would come to Denerim for the game. One imagines that the original plot had Loghain finding out and deliberately leaving Cailan to die, which has his slightly villainous tone at the war council making a bit more sense. As it is, it didn't make it into the game, other than a veiled hint at the union appearing as letters in RtO.

What is canon is that Loghain suspected Cailan was making overtures to the Orlesians, but wasn't aware of the extent. He certainly didn't like the fact that Cailan was allowing legions of chevaliers into Fereldan (given that chevaliers are both formidable opponents, and are also allowed to do unspeakable things to commoners as one of their perks). Whether he let Cailan die deliberately or because he genuinely believed that battle was already lost by that point is the subject of a debate that has raged for over a year since the game's release. (And I won't discuss it further here as Loghain has enough threads already!)

[Sarah1281]

Alistairs_Queen wrote...
No, I haven't.  are those on FF.net? where can I find them?  I would love to read someting with a non-evil Anora.  It's something I'm tackling in my own fic. 

Mutive's work and Love and Levirate by Jessica Jones. You might also want to look up Queen of Thorns by Xandurpein, the one-shot Gravity of Grief  by What Ithacas Mean, and the one-shots A Test of Manhood and it's sequel Anora's Test by Dinah Lance.

[Sarah1281]

So apparently Anora used to be even more ruthless and practical than she is in-game. You know the line 'You can't do this! My father may have been wrong, but he is still a hero to the people' Anora has if you decide to side with Alistair on killing Loghain? Her original line was apparently 'Then take him away. He is no longer my father, nor your regent.' HARSH.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So apparently Anora used to be even more ruthless and practical than she is in-game. You know the line 'You can't do this! My father may have been wrong, but he is still a hero to the people' Anora has if you decide to side with Alistair on killing Loghain? Her original line was apparently 'Then take him away. He is no longer my father, nor your regent.' HARSH.

Where did you see this?

[Persephone]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So apparently Anora used to be even more ruthless and practical than she is in-game. You know the line 'You can't do this! My father may have been wrong, but he is still a hero to the people' Anora has if you decide to side with Alistair on killing Loghain? Her original line was apparently 'Then take him away. He is no longer my father, nor your regent.' HARSH.

Wait WHAT? How does THAT fit with her Epilogue slides (The monument, never marrying again etc.?) ???????

[CalJones]

Wow I'm glad they didn't use that line - I'd have found her difficult to like after that. Impossible, actually. I'm glad they softened her a bit.

[Persephone]

CalJones wrote...

Wow I'm glad they didn't use that line - I'd have found her difficult to like after that. Impossible, actually. I'm glad they softened her a bit.

Where is that line coming though from though? I mean, Anora is ruthless and practical to the bone.... But she clearly loves her father. :crying::crying:

[CalJones]

Sarah likes to dig around in the toolset - maybe it's there? Sarah - explain please!

[Bruddajakka]

Geez that's harsh...though it would make sense if she's trying to distance herself from Loghain's actions. Doesn't really fit with the whole "Anora is her father's daughter" Comment that was made though.

[CalJones]

It doesn't fit with much at all, which is why I imagine it was removed.

[Wulfram]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Geez that's harsh...though it would make sense if she's trying to distance herself from Loghain's actions. Doesn't really fit with the whole "Anora is her father's daughter" Comment that was made though.

I think it does.  Both Loghain and Anora will do almost anything for what they consider the good of ferelden. 

One thing that stands out in the game as it turned out is that for Anora her father is something of an exception to that.  She can't bring herself to back the Warden at the cost of he father's life, and she won't marry her father's killer.  This makes her more human, and a better character, but I don't think it would have been out of character for her to be as ruthless about her father as she is otherwise.

(Random Anora pic I like)

[Elhanan]

What I like of Anora is her intelligence and grace under pressure. What I dislike is her goal oriented personality, and possible betrayal.

[Persephone]

Elhanan wrote...

What I like of Anora is her intelligence and grace under pressure. What I dislike is her goal oriented personality, and possible betrayal.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being goal oriented. And she only betrays you if you betray her first. If I were a queen, I wouldn't support someone who plans to dethrone me and I certainly would NEVER support someone who plans to murder my father.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with being goal oriented. And she only betrays you if you betray her first. If I were a queen, I wouldn't support someone who plans to dethrone me and I certainly would NEVER support someone who plans to murder my father.

I don't think you can say that the Warden openly telling Anora that they're unwilling to spare Loghain is a betrayal.  Rather the opposite - it's probably foolishly honourable.

[Sarah1281]

Persephone wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Wow I'm glad they didn't use that line - I'd have found her difficult to like after that. Impossible, actually. I'm glad they softened her a bit.

Where is that line coming though from though? I mean, Anora is ruthless and practical to the bone.... But she clearly loves her father. :crying::crying:

In the toolset on her in-game line it says in the corner 'Original line:' and listed the 'fine, take him' one.

[CalJones]

That could possibly be a relic from the original plot where Cailan was planning to ditch Anora for Celene, and Loghain likely left him to die deliberately. I know Anora's a tough cookie but I have a hard time getting my head around her saying such a thing. As I said, glad this didn't make the cut.

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I don't think there is anything wrong with being goal oriented. And she only betrays you if you betray her first. If I were a queen, I wouldn't support someone who plans to dethrone me and I certainly would NEVER support someone who plans to murder my father.

I don't think you can say that the Warden openly telling Anora that they're unwilling to spare Loghain is a betrayal.  Rather the opposite - it's probably foolishly honourable.

Nothing honorable about telling a daughter that you plan to kill her father. Of course many lie & do it anyway, even more hideous. Just don't bring up the topic if you must do that to her.

[Persephone]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Wow I'm glad they didn't use that line - I'd have found her difficult to like after that. Impossible, actually. I'm glad they softened her a bit.

Where is that line coming though from though? I mean, Anora is ruthless and practical to the bone.... But she clearly loves her father. :crying::crying:

In the toolset on her in-game line it says in the corner 'Original line:' and listed the 'fine, take him' one.

I am GLAD that was changed. I couldn't find it in the toolset though. Which dlg file were you looking at?

Anora would do a lot to be queen. But to do that to her father....no, she would not. Is there a recording of it in there too? Harsh as it may be, if it could be restored, it would be VERY powerful. And fuel the Anora hate...hmmmmmm....not a good idea, after all. I can only think of this being a relic from an older draft.

[Persephone]

CalJones wrote...

That could possibly be a relic from the original plot where Cailan was planning to ditch Anora for Celene, and Loghain likely left him to die deliberately. I know Anora's a tough cookie but I have a hard time getting my head around her saying such a thing. As I said, glad this didn't make the cut.

Agreed. And I don't consider it cut dialogue, just rewritten (Thankfully) dialogue. The game is trying way to hard to portray her as an evil biatch (Which she isn't), that line would just have been over the top. Not to mention utterly tasteless.