387 réponses à ce sujet

[CalJones]

The fact she says "take him away" indicates that in that concept, Loghain wouldn't have been killed then and there. Powerful line, yes, but not as powerful as the actual Loghain execution that made it into the game, where Anora gets covered in his blood. Did that in my first playthrough and, well, never again.

[Sarah1281]

If you're looking over the Landsmeet dialogue in the toolset, click on Anora's in-game 'You can't do this! My father may have been wrong, but he is still a hero to the people' line and then look in the 'scripting comments' box and it's listed there. There are a few other lines where things have been changed as well. Loghain's 'I underestimated you, Warden. I thought you were like Cailan, a child wanting to play at war' line has the scripting comments box say 'Old line: I concede. Fortune has favored you, Warden' line, for instance, and if Alistair fights and wins instead of 'Forget Maric. This is for Duncan' his old line was 'I'm as surprised as you are' (which I happen to like better as it makes him sound less vengeful).

@Cal: Or maybe Anora just doesn't expect them to kill her father right there. She doesn't have Alistair executed on the spot, after all.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 28 octobre 2010 - 02:40 .

[Persephone]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you're looking over the Landsmeet dialogue in the toolset, click on Anora's in-game 'You can't do this! My father may have been wrong, but he is still a hero to the people' line and then look in the 'scripting comments' box and it's listed there. There are a few other lines where things have been changed as well. Loghain's 'I underestimated you, Warden. I thought you were like Cailan, a child wanting to play at war' line has the scripting comments box say 'Old line: I concede. Fortune has favored you, Warden' line, for instance, and if Alistair fights and wins instead of 'Forget Maric. This is for Duncan' his old line was 'I'm as surprised as you are' (which I happen to like better as it makes him sound less vengeful).

@Cal: Or maybe Anora just doesn't expect them to kill her father right there. She doesn't have Alistair executed on the spot, after all.

"I am surprised as you are", I like that. It does, indeed, make him look less vengeful and obsessive.

@Cal

Agreed. It's a horrific scene.

[Xilizhra]

For those who know Anora better than I do, presumably; would she accept a delegation from the Tevinter Imperium giving reparations for the slaving operation to the Denerim Alienage, and later aid after the food riots and suchlike? Any renewed diplomatic relations with them at all?

[Bruddajakka]

One thing that still bugs me about DAO is that you can't romance any one outside of the party. Think it would have been interesting to pursue an actual romance with her beyond the whole Political marriage route. I really do like her when she shows her more feminine side. She's got a hell of a giggle.

[Wulfram]

Xilizhra wrote...

For those who know Anora better than I do, presumably; would she accept a delegation from the Tevinter Imperium giving reparations for the slaving operation to the Denerim Alienage, and later aid after the food riots and suchlike? Any renewed diplomatic relations with them at all?

Why would Tevinter offer reparations?  They don't have any problems with slavery, they were acting with the permission of the Ferelden government and I doubt they care much what Ferelden thinks of them anyway.

Though I'm sure Anora would happily take any cash offered.

[Sarah1281]

Xilizhra wrote...

For those who know Anora better than I do, presumably; would she accept a delegation from the Tevinter Imperium giving reparations for the slaving operation to the Denerim Alienage, and later aid after the food riots and suchlike? Any renewed diplomatic relations with them at all?

I don't see why she wouldn't. Because it was the Alienage, people wouldn't care as much as if it had been anyone else but the nobles, at least, seemed offended at the very idea of slavery since it went against Ferelden ideals. If Tevinter, for whatever reason, decided to make reparations I think she'd accept it as it would be some great PR for her and put some much-needed distance between her rule and what her father did in her name. Besides, the epilogue mentions that she does try to improve life for those in the Alienage even though eventually she has to crack down so I see her being open to accepting aid for them.

[Xilizhra]

Why would Tevinter offer reparations? They don't have any problems with slavery, they were acting with the permission of the Ferelden government and I doubt they care much what Ferelden thinks of them anyway.



Though I'm sure Anora would happily take any cash offered.

It's part of a larger plot that involves elven revolutionaries seizing the Dales and hopefully drawing the Chantry into a losing Exalted March. My Warden and the archon want Tevinter to have elven goodwill, and to gain it without stepping on Ferelden's toes.

[CalJones]

I like that Alistair line much better, too. As it is, he sounds like a jerk.

[Wulfram]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Besides, the epilogue mentions that she does try to improve life for those in the Alienage even though eventually she has to crack down so I see her being open to accepting aid for them.

She does?  All I've seen is a mention that with the slavers shut down, things improve for a bit - no indication whether she had anything to do with it, just things got a little less crappy for a while since no one was trying to kidnap them.

I can't see her having any problems with other people spending their money on the alienage, though.

edit:redundancy was redundant

Modifié par Wulfram, 28 octobre 2010 - 03:50 .

[Sarah1281]

While it just says that the lot of the city-born elves improve for a time, I tend to assume that she at least had something to do with it as Anora promises the CE that she'll try and help improve the Alienage and yet you get the exact same epilogue slide.

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...

The fact she says "take him away" indicates that in that concept, Loghain wouldn't have been killed then and there. Powerful line, yes, but not as powerful as the actual Loghain execution that made it into the game, where Anora gets covered in his blood. Did that in my first playthrough and, well, never again.

Hence why I consider that cheap manipulation on the part of the writers, along with the "daughters" line.  Just makes me eyeroll.  I know others consider the scene powerful, but it just seems shoddy to me.

[Zjarcal]

But why is it "cheap"? It certainly doesn't feel out of place to me.

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

But why is it "cheap"? It certainly doesn't feel out of place to me.

Because to qualify as an Alistair Fan people must hate Anora, and anything that humanizes her is a pathetic attempt at causing sympathy for that Ice Queen.

Obviously. 

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

But why is it "cheap"? It certainly doesn't feel out of place to me.

Because to qualify as an Alistair Fan people must hate Anora, and anything that humanizes her is a pathetic attempt at causing sympathy for that Ice Queen.

Obviously. 

Pff.  Whatever.

Why it's cheap is that in all other execution scenarios, the execution happens offscreen and that's more realistic.  The blood splash is also so over the top, it's an obvious (to me) gimmick.  As is Loghain's line about pigtails.  He is going to say that to the Warden about to kill him?  I don't think so.  They could have showed us Loghain and Anora's relationship in a cutscene like the other Denerim cutscenes, and made the execution scene wrenching without the Halloween blood.

Modifié par Addai67, 28 octobre 2010 - 09:40 .

[Zjarcal]

The blood splatter is too much, I do agree there.

Actually, you're right really, the execution scene couldn't have been handled better. Still, I don't feel Loghain's lines are inappropriate for him.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 28 octobre 2010 - 09:43 .

[Giggles_Manically]

That is realistic though.



Blood is under pressure in the human body, and if someone is decapitated it does spray quite a good deal. Crowds had to stand a good deal back from guillotines when they took a person's head off.



A decapitation causes a great deal of blood spray due to the human brain needing a lot of blood to transport oxygen to it.



Also Loghain is talking Anora down there, I dont find it cheap he is trying to stop her from getting killed or fighting a now lost cause.

[CalJones]

Well, when they did the "this is the new ****" trailer, they made a great deal of the blood splattering, and there's certainly a lot of it - to the extent that the logo is made of blood. I guess they decided to do it because of that. It reminds me of the jousting scene in Jabberwocky.

I always turn blood splatter off in game because it annoys me (but you still get it in that scene, regardless).

[Zjarcal]

The main reason why I wouldn't call Loghain's lines cheap is because at that point there's no turning back. Loghain will die either at your hand or at Alistair's, even if you choose the "No, I can't do this" line.



Had Loghain's talk of daughters had been done at a point where you could still back out and spare him, then maybe I'd say the devs were trying to manipulate you. As it is however, I don't get that vibe from that scene.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The blood spatter was exaggerated, yes, the talk wasn't and I don't see what's so abnormal about a father finally deciding to express his feelings to his daughter, in his own way, before he goes. If anything, it's Bioware reminding us that you are killing a human being and a father and not a "zomg ebul monster with no feelings".

Otherwise, I could just as easily dismiss Alistair's line "hasn't everything I've done count for anything?" as an attempt to manipulate my feelings, while in reality Alistair literally did nothing in my playthrough (he was at camp). Of course I don't say that because the game should remind us that we are allowing for the execution of a companion and that we should be aware of that.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 octobre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Ryzaki]

I liked the line. Still kill him though but the line was a nice "this is a human being with flaws and good points that you're killing." just like Alistair's "I trusted you!" line if you have him executed in a romance.

...The blood splashing on Anora I couldn't help but snicker at. But that was more due to DA's obsession with blood than anything.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 octobre 2010 - 10:42 .

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

CalJones wrote...

The fact she says "take him away" indicates that in that concept, Loghain wouldn't have been killed then and there. Powerful line, yes, but not as powerful as the actual Loghain execution that made it into the game, where Anora gets covered in his blood. Did that in my first playthrough and, well, never again.

Hence why I consider that cheap manipulation on the part of the writers, along with the "daughters" line.  Just makes me eyeroll.  I know others consider the scene powerful, but it just seems shoddy to me.

Tis, I think one of the most powerful lines in the game. Cheap? If he had begged for his life for the sake of his daughter, maybe. But no. He is calming her down the only way he can. And it still makes me :crying:

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

But why is it "cheap"? It certainly doesn't feel out of place to me.

Because to qualify as an Alistair Fan people must hate Anora, and anything that humanizes her is a pathetic attempt at causing sympathy for that Ice Queen.

Obviously. 

Pff.  Whatever.

Why it's cheap is that in all other execution scenarios, the execution happens offscreen and that's more realistic.  The blood splash is also so over the top, it's an obvious (to me) gimmick.  As is Loghain's line about pigtails.  He is going to say that to the Warden about to kill him?  I don't think so.  They could have showed us Loghain and Anora's relationship in a cutscene like the other Denerim cutscenes, and made the execution scene wrenching without the Halloween blood.

He is not saying that to the Warden but to Anora.

[Persephone]

Ryzaki wrote...

I liked the line. Still kill him though but the line was a nice "this is a human being with flaws and good points that you're killing." just like Alistair's "I trusted you!" line if you have him executed in a romance.

...The blood splashing on Anora I couldn't help but snicker at. But that was more due to DA's obsession with blood than anything.

Personally I found the blood splashing utterly disturbing.

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...
Tis, I think one of the most powerful lines in the game. Cheap? If he had begged for his life for the sake of his daughter, maybe. But no. He is calming her down the only way he can. And it still makes me :crying:

He's talking to her like a child in front of the Landsmeet.

I don't mind the lines but the whole situation is kind of ridiculous. They failed to make Loghain more sympathetic but force this tearjerker on you only after you've decided his fate. Yeah, thanks. Why don't you give me something to work with before it's too late. *rolleyes* And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know.

Modifié par klarabella, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:20 .