387 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Tis, I think one of the most powerful lines in the game. Cheap? If he had begged for his life for the sake of his daughter, maybe. But no. He is calming her down the only way he can. And it still makes me :crying:

He's talking to her like a child in front of the Landsmeet.

I don't mind the lines but the whole situation is kind of ridiculous. They failed to make Loghain more sympathetic but force this tearjerker on you after you've decided his fate. Yeah, thanks. Why don't you give me something to work with before it's too late. *rolleyes*
And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know.

1) That's the whole POINT. I'm almost 30 and I'm still my Dad's princess/litlle girl in tender moments. We always remain our parents' children.

2) It's to show that your decision has consequences. You have decided to kill a father before his daughter. What WERE you expecting?

3) "And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know." Sorry, but you DO realize how incredibly CALLOUS that sounds? You're not ruining her dress with a glass of red wine, you are murdering her father! The desire NOT to stay back DESPITE the AGONY is completely normal.

[Bruddajakka]

Well in all fairness when Alistair executes him there's no real discussion he just lops off his head.

[TJPags]

You know, I'm so sure that deleted line is so out of character.



When she first enters the Landsmeet, doesn't she say something like "My father is not the man we all used to know"?



That cut line is very similar to that.

[Giggles_Manically]

Persephone wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Tis, I think one of the most powerful lines in the game. Cheap? If he had begged for his life for the sake of his daughter, maybe. But no. He is calming her down the only way he can. And it still makes me :crying:

He's talking to her like a child in front of the Landsmeet.

I don't mind the lines but the whole situation is kind of ridiculous. They failed to make Loghain more sympathetic but force this tearjerker on you after you've decided his fate. Yeah, thanks. Why don't you give me something to work with before it's too late. *rolleyes*
And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know.

1) That's the whole POINT. I'm almost 30 and I'm still my Dad's princess/litlle girl in tender moments. We always remain our parents' children.

2) It's to show that your decision has consequences. You have decided to kill a father before his daughter. What WERE you expecting?

3) "And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know." Sorry, but you DO realize how incredibly CALLOUS that sounds? You're not ruining her dress with a glass of red wine, you are murdering her father! The desire NOT to stay back DESPITE the AGONY is completely normal.

What do you expect from the Ali Birgade?

Anora and Loghain are the devil, and anything that humanizes them is an obviously cheap ploy to humanize those bad bad people.

[CalJones]

There's a difference between taking a stand at the Landsmeet and then telling your father he's no longer your father as you send him off to die. That is horrible, and harsh. He may have been absent a fair bit, but he wasn't a bad father to her. Saying such a thing is cruel beyond measure.

[Bruddajakka]

Which is probably why the line was cut.

[Persephone]

TJPags wrote...

You know, I'm so sure that deleted line is so out of character.

When she first enters the Landsmeet, doesn't she say something like "My father is not the man we all used to know"?

That cut line is very similar to that.

Er, no, it is fundamentally different. One is about taking a stand and defying hero worship. The other is a daughter sentencing her own father to death.

[Persephone]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Persephone wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Tis, I think one of the most powerful lines in the game. Cheap? If he had begged for his life for the sake of his daughter, maybe. But no. He is calming her down the only way he can. And it still makes me :crying:

He's talking to her like a child in front of the Landsmeet.

I don't mind the lines but the whole situation is kind of ridiculous. They failed to make Loghain more sympathetic but force this tearjerker on you after you've decided his fate. Yeah, thanks. Why don't you give me something to work with before it's too late. *rolleyes*
And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know.

1) That's the whole POINT. I'm almost 30 and I'm still my Dad's princess/litlle girl in tender moments. We always remain our parents' children.

2) It's to show that your decision has consequences. You have decided to kill a father before his daughter. What WERE you expecting?

3) "And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know." Sorry, but you DO realize how incredibly CALLOUS that sounds? You're not ruining her dress with a glass of red wine, you are murdering her father! The desire NOT to stay back DESPITE the AGONY is completely normal.

What do you expect from the Ali Birgade?

Anora and Loghain are the devil, and anything that humanizes them is an obviously cheap ploy to humanize those bad bad people.

Hey, hey, there are many awesome Alistair fans. Don't condemn them all like that.

[TJPags]

Persephone wrote...

TJPags wrote...

You know, I'm so sure that deleted line is so out of character.

When she first enters the Landsmeet, doesn't she say something like "My father is not the man we all used to know"?

That cut line is very similar to that.

Er, no, it is fundamentally different. One is about taking a stand and defying hero worship. The other is a daughter sentencing her own father to death.

I'm not so sure.

If you kill him, the ONLY ramification is that, if the HNM kills him himself, she won't marry him.  If the HNM duels Loghain, and turns and lets Ali kill him, she still marries the HNM.

Yes, we get the whole monument epilogue, but that's about it.  If you tell her Loghain may have to die, she doesn't fight against you, doesn't back out of the marriage.  She shows no opposition to you sentencing him to death, she simply won't marry you if you kill him yourself.

[KnightofPhoenix]

klarabella wrote...
 And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know.

Yes, she should have totally said:

"K guys, if you want to kill my father, just give me a few seconds to stay clear, I don't want to dirty my robe" <_<

[Sarah1281]

Yes, we get the whole monument epilogue, but that's about it. If you tell her Loghain may have to die, she doesn't fight against you, doesn't back out of the marriage. She shows no opposition to you sentencing him to death, she simply won't marry you if you kill him yourself.

She realizes that he may have to die, yes. She's not happy about it but she still acknowledges that the Landsmeet may decide to do that. If you outright say that it's inevitable and you'll see to it no matter what then she'll betray you.



If Anora gets a chance to protest against you killing him then Riordan has offered up a suitable alternative to execution and no one but Alistair and the Warden have voiced opposition to this but ultimately it's the Warden's call (since if Alistair fights him then he kills Loghain before Anora has a chance to say anything).

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What do you expect from the Ali Birgade?

Anora and Loghain are the devil, and anything that humanizes them is an obviously cheap ploy to humanize those bad bad people.

Wow, I see the old Giggles is back.  Can't say I'm pleased at the return.

[Addai]

Persephone wrote...

He is not saying that to the Warden but to Anora.

He says something to Anora, then turns and looks at the Warden for that line.

It's fine if some people are moved by the scene.  I just never was, not the way it was presented.  It feels like cheap manipulation of emotions.

Modifié par Addai67, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Persephone]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yes, we get the whole monument epilogue, but that's about it. If you tell her Loghain may have to die, she doesn't fight against you, doesn't back out of the marriage. She shows no opposition to you sentencing him to death, she simply won't marry you if you kill him yourself.

She realizes that he may have to die, yes. She's not happy about it but she still acknowledges that the Landsmeet may decide to do that. If you outright say that it's inevitable and you'll see to it no matter what then she'll betray you.

If Anora gets a chance to protest against you killing him then Riordan has offered up a suitable alternative to execution and no one but Alistair and the Warden have voiced opposition to this but ultimately it's the Warden's call (since if Alistair fights him then he kills Loghain before Anora has a chance to say anything).

This. Exactly.

[Giggles_Manically]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What do you expect from the Ali Birgade?

Anora and Loghain are the devil, and anything that humanizes them is an obviously cheap ploy to humanize those bad bad people.

Wow, I see the old Giggles is back.  Can't say I'm pleased at the return.

Cant say that I care that it dosent please you.

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

He is not saying that to the Warden but to Anora.

He says something to Anora, then turns and looks at the Warden for that line.

It's fine if some people are moved by the scene.  I just never was, not the way it was presented.  It feels like cheap manipulation of emotions.

He is still speaking to her. Just already preparing for the deathblow coming from you.

[Persephone]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What do you expect from the Ali Birgade?

Anora and Loghain are the devil, and anything that humanizes them is an obviously cheap ploy to humanize those bad bad people.

Wow, I see the old Giggles is back.  Can't say I'm pleased at the return.

Cant say that I care that it dosent please you.

Giggles, this is Addai, remember? The author who presented us with "The Arrangment". Let's not fight.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

klarabella wrote...
 And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know.

Yes, she should have totally said:

"K guys, if you want to kill my father, just give me a few seconds to stay clear, I don't want to dirty my robe" <_<

Besides, it's not like Anora actually complains about getting blood all over herself in which case the line about how if she wanted to avoid it she should have moved might be applicable. It's many players who are horrified on her behalf who take issue with it while she manages to pull herself together after collapsing to continue with the Landsmeet.

One thing that I do find interesting is the pair backing out of their marriage.
Warden: I thought the two of you were going to marry?
Unhardened Alistair: And <emp>I</emp> thought the whole idea was to bring Loghain to justice! Funny how plans change, isn't it?
Anora: You'd throw away a very <emp>fortunate</emp> alliance for petty revenge? Perhaps Ferelden is better off without you, Alistair. (She would put the nation first, she can't believe he wouldn't) 

And yet...

Warden: I believe Alistair and Anora plan to marry and rule jointly.
Anora: Plans change. Nothing could convince me to marry my father's murderer. (Cutting -- she is speaking to a large crowd)

Now, I don't even remotely blame Anora for not marrying the man who killed her father but it does strike me as a little hypocritical when she's shocked Alistair won't stick around and be king if Loghain doesn't die because Ferelden comes first...except if she's the one putting her issues before it when she thinks Alistair would be a fail!king.

[TJPags]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yes, we get the whole monument epilogue, but that's about it. If you tell her Loghain may have to die, she doesn't fight against you, doesn't back out of the marriage. She shows no opposition to you sentencing him to death, she simply won't marry you if you kill him yourself.

She realizes that he may have to die, yes. She's not happy about it but she still acknowledges that the Landsmeet may decide to do that. If you outright say that it's inevitable and you'll see to it no matter what then she'll betray you.

If Anora gets a chance to protest against you killing him then Riordan has offered up a suitable alternative to execution and no one but Alistair and the Warden have voiced opposition to this but ultimately it's the Warden's call (since if Alistair fights him then he kills Loghain before Anora has a chance to say anything).

Oh sure, I get that.

But unless I spcifically say I'm going to kill him, she doesn't betray me.  Unless I actually kill him myself, she goes through with the wedding.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see that as someone who is all broken up over his death.  I'm not saying that to make any judgment about her, just saying it.  And with that in mind, I don't see that cut line as out of character at all.

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...
1) That's the whole POINT. I'm almost 30 and I'm still my Dad's princess/litlle girl in tender moments. We always remain our parents' children.

2) It's to show that your decision has consequences. You have decided to kill a father before his daughter. What WERE you expecting?

3) "And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know." Sorry, but you DO realize how incredibly CALLOUS that sounds? You're not ruining her dress with a glass of red wine, you are murdering her father! The desire NOT to stay back DESPITE the AGONY is completely normal.

Wow, you really are a rabid Mac Tir fangirl, uh?

1) Don't doubt that. I just thought that, while good to see that Anora and Loghain actually care about each other, their goodbye could have been more dignified, considering that they are in front of a Landsmeet.

2) I expected him to be as flat a character as he'd been before. It's nice to see he's not but they way it's done ... meh. The line is good, the Landsmeet setup is not.

3) Yes, callous. It's still a game character we're talking about, you are aware of that? Let me elaborate, I don't necessarily criticize Anora, I criticize the devs/writers. No, it's not normal to have a family member standing so close that they get splattered with blood. If Anora is really unable to keep her distance someone should have held her back, or without the magical clean-up she's going to be elected for queen covered in her father's blood.

Modifié par klarabella, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:56 .

[Persephone]

TJPags wrote...

Persephone wrote...

TJPags wrote...

You know, I'm so sure that deleted line is so out of character.

When she first enters the Landsmeet, doesn't she say something like "My father is not the man we all used to know"?

That cut line is very similar to that.

Er, no, it is fundamentally different. One is about taking a stand and defying hero worship. The other is a daughter sentencing her own father to death.

I'm not so sure.

If you kill him, the ONLY ramification is that, if the HNM kills him himself, she won't marry him.  If the HNM duels Loghain, and turns and lets Ali kill him, she still marries the HNM.

Yes, we get the whole monument epilogue, but that's about it.  If you tell her Loghain may have to die, she doesn't fight against you, doesn't back out of the marriage.  She shows no opposition to you sentencing him to death, she simply won't marry you if you kill him yourself.

What is she supposed to do once it's decided and once even her father relents? He accepts it, she protests like any distressed daughter would.

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What do you expect from the Ali Birgade?

Anora and Loghain are the devil, and anything that humanizes them is an obviously cheap ploy to humanize those bad bad people.

Wow, I see the old Giggles is back.  Can't say I'm pleased at the return.

Cant say that I care that it dosent please you.

Pointless ad hominems noted, pissy attitude noted, moving on.

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
1) That's the whole POINT. I'm almost 30 and I'm still my Dad's princess/litlle girl in tender moments. We always remain our parents' children.

2) It's to show that your decision has consequences. You have decided to kill a father before his daughter. What WERE you expecting?

3) "And Anora, you're not dumb, you could stand back, you know." Sorry, but you DO realize how incredibly CALLOUS that sounds? You're not ruining her dress with a glass of red wine, you are murdering her father! The desire NOT to stay back DESPITE the AGONY is completely normal.

Wow, you really are a rabid Mac Tir fangirl, uh?

1) Don't doubt that. I just thought that, while good to see that Anora and Loghain actually care about each other, their goodbye could have been more dignified, considering that they are in front of a Landsmeet.

2) I expected him to be as flat a character as he'd been before. It's nice to see he's not but they way it's done ... meh. The line is good, the Landsmeet setup is not.

3) Yes, callous. It's a game character, you are aware of that. Let me elaborate, I don't necessarily criticize Anora, I criticize the devs/writers. No, it's not normal to have a family member stand so close that they get splattered with blood. If Anora is really unable to keep her distance someone should have held her.

Rabid Mac Tir fangirl? No. I like Alistair too much for that. I heard I will never qualify as a rabid Mac Tir fangirl until I can bring myself to enjoy sending Alistair to his death like rabid Alistair fangirls often enjoy executing Loghain.

1) Dignified? I'd not have been nearly as composed as Anora. I'd have sobbed and begged. And he was dignity itself.

2) Flat? Flat? Are we talking about Loghain here? O_o

3) So is Alistair. Yet his fangirls scream bloody murder if he gets LED AWAY to be executed. (Check the Youtube vids!) I did not say it was NORMAL to stand so close, I said it was normal to want to be close during your father's last moments.

[nos_astra]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What do you expect from the Ali Birgade?

Anora and Loghain are the devil, and anything that humanizes them is an obviously cheap ploy to humanize those bad bad people.

Wow, I see the old Giggles is back.  Can't say I'm pleased at the return.

Cant say that I care that it dosent please you.

What's up with those caustic comments from you? I thought you had moved past the point of simple trolling.

[Persephone]

TJPags wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yes, we get the whole monument epilogue, but that's about it. If you tell her Loghain may have to die, she doesn't fight against you, doesn't back out of the marriage. She shows no opposition to you sentencing him to death, she simply won't marry you if you kill him yourself.

She realizes that he may have to die, yes. She's not happy about it but she still acknowledges that the Landsmeet may decide to do that. If you outright say that it's inevitable and you'll see to it no matter what then she'll betray you.

If Anora gets a chance to protest against you killing him then Riordan has offered up a suitable alternative to execution and no one but Alistair and the Warden have voiced opposition to this but ultimately it's the Warden's call (since if Alistair fights him then he kills Loghain before Anora has a chance to say anything).

Oh sure, I get that.

But unless I spcifically say I'm going to kill him, she doesn't betray me.  Unless I actually kill him myself, she goes through with the wedding.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see that as someone who is all broken up over his death.  I'm not saying that to make any judgment about her, just saying it.  And with that in mind, I don't see that cut line as out of character at all.

It is completely out of character as she reveres and loves her father. She'd never setence him to death. And the line was not CUT, it was REPLACED by a whole different persona.