387 réponses à ce sujet

[Bruddajakka]

Yeah it actually makes choosing what to protect in Awakening a bit of a sadistic choice. You basically have to choose between protecting the farm lands or trade both of which would end up having negative consequences. I almost always go with trade but it still ends up being a bit of a kick in the nuts. And since Amaranthine is a Major trade port I save it rather then going back to the Vigil it's too important to lose. I think the only one of my Warden's who didn't save it was my Dalish one since he didn't care what happened to the Shems.

[KnightofPhoenix]

mousestalker wrote...
Nothing is more important than the Alienages.

Depends on perspective.

For me, they are unimportant in the larger scheme of things and the general wellfare of Ferelden.
In fact, them being kept impoverished means a potential source for cheap labour.  

[soignee]

*adds Anora fangirl badge to the pile*



I her. So much.

[ejoslin]

But it was a food shortage that is avoided under Alistair's rule. Mind you, I DO think Anora is a good ruler, I just think she's better married to Alistair. Their strengths are in different areas. I think together they could build a very strong, peaceful country.

There are some interesting bugged epilogue slides regarding the Bann of the Alienage. It doesn't last long for sure. Hmmmm, I wish the post-coronation talk was in the toolset so I could figure out how to fix the flags!

*not in game spoiler*

While the elves did become more prosperous, especially with the Warden as Bann:

For all:
With a new bann in the Landsmeet to represent them, the city-born elves found a better lot than ever. New law gave the elves more trading rights and their own militia within the Alienage.

Then...

Shianni as Bann:
Resistance from humans saw a rise in violence in the city, however, which culminated in Shianni's murder by a human bigot several years later. The resulting riot in the Alienage forced a crack-down from the throne, a clear signal that the tension with the elves had not been resolved.

Soris as Bann:
A year later, Soris's marriage to a wealthy human woman caused a scandal in both parts of the city--resulting in a riot within the Alienage that forced a crack-down from the throne. Angered, Soris resigned his title and left Ferelden with his new wife. No new bann was named to replace him.

Warden as Bann:
With <FirstName/> as their new voice, the elves became prosperous in a way they had never known... enough to draw elves from nearby lands, desperate for real hope. The influx built ire among the human population and eventually resulted in a riot in Denerim, showing that as much as things change, they always stay the same.

Unnamed Bann:
Resistance from humans saw a rise in violence in the city, however, culminating in an angry mob outside the Landsmeet that stoned the new bann to death. The resulting riot in the Alienage forced a crack-down from the throne, a clear signal that tensions with the elves were far from resolved.



Edit: added slides.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 septembre 2010 - 04:43 .

[LobselVith8]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

mousestalker wrote...
Nothing is more important than the Alienages.

Depends on perspective.

For me, they are unimportant in the larger scheme of things and the general wellfare of Ferelden.
In fact, them being kept impoverished means a potential source for cheap labour.  

Isn't that only a little better than outright slavery? The elves have no rights, they can't do anything when Bann Vaughan comes in and abducts women in broad daylight, and there's a purge that murders men, women, and children.

I think Queen Anora with a hardened Alistair as King is the best for Ferelden. A hardened Alistair becomes an effective leader and studies governance, he improves the lot of the elves, and he's willing to trust Anora's decisions as an administrator. Anora wants to improve Ferelden, she can replenish Ferelden financially, and she wants to build a university. Both of them are willing to give the Hinterlands to the Dalish and improve the role of mages in their nation. I think Anora's biggest flaw is her inability to understand the plight of the elves in the alienage, it's why I never support her on the throne alone (as an elven Mage Warden).

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

But it was a food shortage that is avoided under Alistair's rule. Mind you, I DO think Anora is a good ruler, I just think she's better married to Alistair. Their strengths are in different areas. I think together they could build a very strong, peaceful country.

Was the food shortage avoided, or was he simply more sympathetic, thus avoiding riots?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Because Alistair devoted more ressources to the alienage. Anora didn't and I agree with her decision, some things are more important.

The problem with them marrying, especially if Loghain is alive, is that Alistair will probably just say "nay" to everything Anora proposes, because he doens't want her to have her way (and he says that). Since they are on equal footing, each has a veto of sorts and if they keep hating each other, nothing gets done. So I am not a fan. I think Anora / Cousland to be much much better and is the only epilogue that hints at a possible golden age.

And yes, I know about the riots that happen regardless of ruler.

[WilliamShatner]

I think Anora is lovely.

[ejoslin]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

But it was a food shortage that is avoided under Alistair's rule. Mind you, I DO think Anora is a good ruler, I just think she's better married to Alistair. Their strengths are in different areas. I think together they could build a very strong, peaceful country.

Was the food shortage avoided, or was he simply more sympathetic, thus avoiding riots?

Riots do happen no matter who is in charge if the City Elf asks for the elves to represent themselves, so it really is hard to say.  There's no mention of a food shortage under Alistair's rule.

Anyway, I edited my post above to show the slides if you're interested.  It's too bad they're bugged and that the post-coronation talk is not in the toolset.  It'd be interesting to have them back in.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Isn't that only a little better than outright slavery? The elves have no rights, they can't do anything when Bann Vaughan comes in and abducts women in broad daylight, and there's a purge that murders men, women, and children.

A bad thing for sure. But I think there are far more important things to worry about.
Progress will always screw a part of the population, it's unavoidable.

[LobselVith8]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Isn't that only a little better than outright slavery? The elves have no rights, they can't do anything when Bann Vaughan comes in and abducts women in broad daylight, and there's a purge that murders men, women, and children.

A bad thing for sure. But I think there are far more important things to worry about.
Progress will always screw a part of the population, it's unavoidable.

I think the welfare of the improverished is pretty important. Alistair brings progress to the elves, which is why it's a good idea to elect him with Anora. They can accomplish together what they would seperately.

ejoslin wrote...

But it was a food shortage that is avoided under Alistair's rule. Mind you, I DO think Anora is a good ruler, I just think she's better married to Alistair. Their strengths are in different areas. I think together they could build a very strong, peaceful country.

There are some interesting bugged epilogue slides regarding the Bann of the Alienage. It doesn't last long for sure. Hmmmm, I wish the post-coronation talk was in the toolset so I could figure out how to fix the flags!

*not in game spoiler*

While the elves did become more prosperous, especially with the Warden as Bann:

Shianni as Bann gets murdered
Soris as Bann moves away and quits because of issues caused by his human wife
Warden as Bann has all sorts of protests and such
Unnamed Bann gets stoned to death

There were riots as well, no matter what and a crackdown from the throne.

Edit: Formatting.

Since the Warden can only chose Shianni as Bann (unless they perform the US and the Warden's father Cyrion is then elected First Bann), and none of this is mentioned in Awakening or any other post-DA:O DLC, I'd assume that none of those results are canon.

[Persephone]

ejoslin wrote...

But it was a food shortage that is avoided under Alistair's rule. Mind you, I DO think Anora is a good ruler, I just think she's better married to Alistair. Their strengths are in different areas. I think together they could build a very strong, peaceful country.

There are some interesting bugged epilogue slides regarding the Bann of the Alienage. It doesn't last long for sure. Hmmmm, I wish the post-coronation talk was in the toolset so I could figure out how to fix the flags!

*not in game spoiler*

While the elves did become more prosperous, especially with the Warden as Bann:

For all:
With a new bann in the Landsmeet to represent them, the city-born elves found a better lot than ever. New law gave the elves more trading rights and their own militia within the Alienage.

Then...

Shianni as Bann:
Resistance from humans saw a rise in violence in the city, however, which culminated in Shianni's murder by a human bigot several years later. The resulting riot in the Alienage forced a crack-down from the throne, a clear signal that the tension with the elves had not been resolved.

Soris as Bann:
A year later, Soris's marriage to a wealthy human woman caused a scandal in both parts of the city--resulting in a riot within the Alienage that forced a crack-down from the throne. Angered, Soris resigned his title and left Ferelden with his new wife. No new bann was named to replace him.

Warden as Bann:
With as their new voice, the elves became prosperous in a way they had never known... enough to draw elves from nearby lands, desperate for real hope. The influx built ire among the human population and eventually resulted in a riot in Denerim, showing that as much as things change, they always stay the same.

Unnamed Bann:
Resistance from humans saw a rise in violence in the city, however, culminating in an angry mob outside the Landsmeet that stoned the new bann to death. The resulting riot in the Alienage forced a crack-down from the throne, a clear signal that tensions with the elves were far from resolved.



Edit: added slides.

WOW, ejoslin! Thanks for the slides. My CE Warden recently became the Alienage's bann with Anora as queen. But that happy slide didn't show up.

[soignee]

ejoslin wrote...

Soris as Bann:
A year later, Soris's marriage to a wealthy human woman caused a scandal in both parts of the city--resulting in a riot within the Alienage that forced a crack-down from the throne. Angered, Soris resigned his title and left Ferelden with his new wife. No new bann was named to replace him.


Edit: added slides.

This intrigues me so much. *ponders story*

[ejoslin]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Since the Warden can only chose Shianni as Bann (unless they perform the US and the Warden's father Cyrion is then elected First Bann), and none of this is mentioned in Awakening or any other post-DA:O DLC, I'd assume that none of those results are canon.

Well, to be fair, Awakening threw out a LOT of the epilogue cards. No one is claiming these are canon. They can't be "canon" as they can only happen if a city elf requests them.

But really, you can't know if these were taken out deliberately or kept out by a bug -- it could very well be a data entry error (there are tons of them, trust me, I spent a lot of time hunting them down and fixing them). Unfortunately, where the flags for this are set in a place that is not accessible so it's hard to say what was meant to be and what wasn't.

Edit: Added quote.  I'm so lazy about quoting.

And yes, you're welcome for posting them.  I found them very interesting.  It is too bad that I can't see the file the flags originate in!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 septembre 2010 - 04:53 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I think the welfare of the improverished is pretty important. Alistair brings progress to the elves, which is why it's a good idea to elect him with Anora. They can accomplish together what they would seperately.

Actually, them being poor means very cheap and desperate labour, which is more important for Ferelden at its current stage of development. Only when Ferelden becomes a market based conssumption based economy, would enriching the poor be important (so they can consume).

Or if they hate each other, they can keep vetoing their decisions and do nothing.
But I can see the benefits of such a union. Still prefer Cousland / Anora by far.

[ejoslin]

*grin* I have to admit I prefer F!Cousland/Alistair in a political marriage. But that's because I'm a bit of an egoist.

[tmp7704]

ejoslin wrote...

Anora, though, has trouble with the inner management. Why, with new trade treaties and such established, was there a food shortage in the Alienage?

That doesn't necessarily mean trouble with management but may as well show different priorities of the ruler. Perhaps Anora isn't running a welfare state, and shortage of food in alienage is more of result of city elves being unable to afford it in sufficient quantities due to being much poorer than rest of population, on average.

edit: Also as rather interesting parallel, in the Awakening player also is given choice to hand out food to try and appease the peasants. I wonder how many actually used that option, plus if i remember right it doesn't turn out well in the longer run?

Modifié par tmp7704, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:04 .

[Bruddajakka]

They only end up hating on each other if Alistair isn't hardened. And while I prefer Cousland/Anora since it means Eamon doesn't get to have his hands in running things. We don't really get to see any benefit come from it, and apparently Cousland disappears into Mirror World regardless. Which makes it more frustrating. Because played right a Cousland Warden can end up more or less as the most important noble in the land which would put him on equal footing with Anora. I mean hell he can end up as Prince Consort, Teyrn of Gwanara, Arl of Amaranthine, and heir to the Teyrnir of Highever. But no apparently he disappears.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...
edit: Also as rather interesting parallel, in the Awakening player also is given choice to hand out food to try and appease the peasants. I wonder how many actually used that option, plus if i remember right it doesn't actually turn out well in the longer run?

Indeed. If the state bends to their will, they think that rioting everytime will get them what they want. So they do it again and are crushed.
Best option is to intimidate them to leave.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:05 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bruddajakka wrote...
Because played right a Cousland Warden can end up more or less as the most important noble in the land which would put him on equal footing with Anora. I mean hell he can end up as Prince Consort, Teyrn of Gwanara, Arl of Amaranthine, and heir to the Teyrnir of Highever. But no apparently he disappears.

Indeed and you forgot commander of Ferelden's armies.
It was a hard choice to leave with Morrigan, but eh maybe I can raise the child to be Ferleden's next king. Or Thedas' Emperor, that would would make me a proud father indeed :')

Besides, the Warden dissapears anyhow, so might as well go with Morrigan.

[Sarah1281]

Not marrying is a worry, though, as it increases the odds of a war of succession. Having a baby is high on the list of queenly duties for good reason.

It's not the most important 'queenly' duty. It's the only real 'consort' duty. And as long as Anora appoints a clear heir, it shouldn't matter if he's not related to her.

I liked Anora until she said " I am Queen and you are my Consort."

But it's true. She is the ruler and you're the person she married who doesn't have as much official power as her.

Nothing is more important than the Alienages.

Really? Why is one minority group having a better life more important than anything and everything else? That seems kind of shortsighted.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:09 .

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, on a different note:



After reading Loghain's talk at camp about Anora, I believe that she actually did feel her life was in danger, which is why she asked for the rescue. I think Loghain thinking she was just being a drama queen is a bit of, well, denial.



Howe told Loghain he wanted to kill her, and Loghain said, "no!" And kept Howe as his advisor anyway. But Anora knew of this, and she was Howe's prisoner. And I have no doubt that Howe was just trying to figure out how to frame someone else for her murder. I actually believe she was in danger now. And Loghain was just so far gone he didn't realize it.



Hmmmmm.

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Not marrying is a worry, though, as it increases the odds of a war of succession. Having a baby is high on the list of queenly duties for good reason.

It's not the most important 'queenly' duty. It's the only real 'consort' duty. And as long as Anora appoints a clear heir, it shouldn't matter if he's not related to her.

I liked Anora until she said " I am Queen and you are my Consort."

But it's true. She is the ruler and you're the person she married who doesn't have as much official power as her.

Nothing is more important than the Alienages.

Really? Why is one minority group having a better life more important than anything and everything else? That seems kind of shortsighted.

I think Fergus Cousland's future children, especially if there's a HN marriage, would make perfect sense as heirs.  In fact, it would most likely be welcomed by the nobles.

[Herr Uhl]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmmm, on a different note:

After reading Loghain's talk at camp about Anora, I believe that she actually did feel her life was in danger, which is why she asked for the rescue. I think Loghain thinking she was just being a drama queen is a bit of, well, denial.

Howe told Loghain he wanted to kill her, and Loghain said, "no!" And kept Howe as his advisor anyway. But Anora knew of this, and she was Howe's prisoner. And I have no doubt that Howe was just trying to figure out how to frame someone else for her murder. I actually believe she was in danger now. And Loghain was just so far gone he didn't realize it.

Hmmmmm.

So she didn't mastermind Ser Cauthrien finding you! 

*gasp*

I think she could have been a little worried for her life, yes.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I don't think Howe told Loghain that he wanted to kill Anora. I think he told him that he wanted to remove Anora from the throne and make Loghain king instead. Or am I wrong? I don't know I forgot.

Loghain definately did not know what was going on imo. He thought he could control Howe while in reality, Howe was too devious for that.