387 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Because Alistair devoted more ressources to the alienage. Anora didn't and I agree with her decision, some things are more important.
The problem with them marrying, especially if Loghain is alive, is that Alistair will probably just say "nay" to everything Anora proposes, because he doens't want her to have her way (and he says that). Since they are on equal footing, each has a veto of sorts and if they keep hating each other, nothing gets done. So I am not a fan. I think Anora / Cousland to be much much better and is the only epilogue that hints at a possible golden age.
And yes, I know about the riots that happen regardless of ruler.

The Alistair/Anora union is the best in terms of broadest scope, and the only one that actually produces a Golden age. Even with Loggy alive. The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland. Because everyone benefits. Anora does the rade and university stuff, Alistair the more humanitarian.

And it is far better for relieving post civil war tensions, since you are keeping both the royalist Therin fans and Loghain's crowd happy with the union. The Cousland match produces no such closures.

So if one is trying to get the "Happioest Ever After for everyone, it's Mac Tir/Therin union.

Of course, since the plight of the elves is pretty much at the bottom of my list of priorities, mind you, Anora purging the alienage doesn't bother me much.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ejoslin wrote...

I think Fergus Cousland's future children, especially if there's a HN marriage, would make perfect sense as heirs.  In fact, it would most likely be welcomed by the nobles.

Indeed, that's what I hope will happen after my Cousland goes with Morrigan.

[Sarah1281]

The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland.

Doesn't that epilogue say that if they can avoid a power struggle they will likely have a golden age as well?

[Frybread76]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Not marrying is a worry, though, as it increases the odds of a war of succession. Having a baby is high on the list of queenly duties for good reason.

It's not the most important 'queenly' duty. It's the only real 'consort' duty. And as long as Anora appoints a clear heir, it shouldn't matter if he's not related to her.

I liked Anora until she said " I am Queen and you are my Consort."

But it's true. She is the ruler and you're the person she married who doesn't have as much official power as her.

Nothing is more important than the Alienages.

Really? Why is one minority group having a better life more important than anything and everything else? That seems kind of shortsighted.

A ruler only has as much power as the noblity allows him or her.  If Anora appoints a person whom the nobility does not like, she would be deposed in a civicl war or coup.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
The Alistair/Anora union is the best in terms of broadest scope, and the only one that actually produces a Golden age. Even with Loggy alive. The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland. Because everyone benefits. Anora does the rade and university stuff, Alistair the more humanitarian.

Nope, it doesn't. The Anora / Alsitair epilogue does not mention a golden age.
The only mention of a golden age is in the Anora / Cousland epilogue, IF they don't fight each other.

[Bruddajakka]

She does ask you not draw attention to her while you escape. Telling Cauthrien that she's with you isn't exactly keeping with that. Besides she's forced into a corner if you reveal her.

On top of that Anora is only mentioned in one slide of that union. Otherwise it's exactly the same as a solo Hardened Alistair.

Modifié par Bruddajakka, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[Sarah1281]

Frybread76 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Not marrying is a worry, though, as it increases the odds of a war of succession. Having a baby is high on the list of queenly duties for good reason.

It's not the most important 'queenly' duty. It's the only real 'consort' duty. And as long as Anora appoints a clear heir, it shouldn't matter if he's not related to her.

A ruler only has as much power as the noblity allows him or her.  If Anora appoints a person whom the nobility does not like, she would be deposed in a civicl war or coup.

I disagree. If Anora chose as her heir someone the nobility doesn't like, nothing would really happen to her. Why would it? They're fine with her rule. The heir would just not be approved upon her death and the country might descend into civil war but that can happen if she had a child that they wouldn't approve of and Anora is smart enough to pick someone billable.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
The Alistair/Anora union is the best in terms of broadest scope, and the only one that actually produces a Golden age. Even with Loggy alive. The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland. Because everyone benefits. Anora does the rade and university stuff, Alistair the more humanitarian.

Nope, it doesn't. The Anora / Alsitair epilogue does not mention a golden age.
The only mention of a golden age is in the Anora / Cousland epilogue, IF they don't fight each other.

Yes it does. I got it with my dwarf commoner. It says Ferelden enters a Golden Age. I remember picking it, because it was my run through to get the best possible result for everything.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland.

Doesn't that epilogue say that if they can avoid a power struggle they will likely have a golden age as well?

The Key word being IF.

[Sarah1281]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland.

Doesn't that epilogue say that if they can avoid a power struggle they will likely have a golden age as well?

The Key word being IF.

That's not really hard to do. Just have a Cousland that doesn't want to steal Anora's power and is willing to work with her. That's his job as consort anyway.

[Herr Uhl]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland.

Doesn't that epilogue say that if they can avoid a power struggle they will likely have a golden age as well?

The Key word being IF.

You can't be definite about how the PC will act. He could be a complete tosser.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Yes it does. I got it with my dwarf commoner. It says Ferelden enters a Golden Age. I remember picking it, because it was my run through to get the best possible result for everything.

Could someone please check the toolset?
I am positive I had the exact same discussion with Addai and someone posted the epilogue were it was clear that there was no mention of a golden Age in the Ali / Anora union. Just that they were very popular.

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
The Alistair/Anora union is the best in terms of broadest scope, and the only one that actually produces a Golden age. Even with Loggy alive. The two times I experimented with this ending are the only times I've seebn a Golden Age, so it's better than Anora/Cousland. Because everyone benefits. Anora does the rade and university stuff, Alistair the more humanitarian.

Nope, it doesn't. The Anora / Alsitair epilogue does not mention a golden age.
The only mention of a golden age is in the Anora / Cousland epilogue, IF they don't fight each other.

Yes it does. I got it with my dwarf commoner. It says Ferelden enters a Golden Age. I remember picking it, because it was my run through to get the best possible result for everything.

Yeah, I could have sworn I got it on my Alistair-Anora marriage game, too (with Warden mistress but leaving to rebuild the Wardens).  Otherwise I wouldn't have known such a phrase existed, since that happened before I was posting on the forums and I've never done an Anora-HNM.  Do you only get it if the Warden leaves Denerim??

[KnightofPhoenix]

That's what the wikia says:

- Anora weds Alistair and they rule together both in matters of court and law, and both making personal appearances together, supervising the reconstruction process, meeting the enthusiastic approval of the people to the point where it was considered that the chaos of the civil war and the landsmeet were worth it for delivering such beloved monarchs.

- Anora weds The Warden; establishing many trade contracts with surrounding countries, and together with The Warden begins what could be a new golden age for Ferelden if they do not end up fighting for control.

I see no mention of a golden age for the former.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:25 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

But the point of that, is that there's no guarantee. And a Cousland consort would not be an equal union.

With Alistair hardened and married to Anora, he goes off, studies governing, surprises everyone, including her, and the whole realm think it's the best thing since sliced nug. Anora goes off and gets to do her civil and social improvements, Alistair gets to do his warm and fuzzy bit making the poor people happy, no rioting.

But, even more so, the union, as I said, unites two sides in opposition from the civil war. Opposition on both sides is quelled. The Eamon-crowd are happy, the Anora support crowd are happy, everyone gets their way. You would not have this with a Cousland/Anora union, and certainly not with a Cousland/Alistair union.

Edit: let me go load my DC save to get the epilogue slides.

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:27 .

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Anora is awesome by far one of my favorite characters. Xandurpein has written awesome fanfics about her here. His Prince Cousland and Queen Anora stories are some of my favorite fanfics.

(I'm a little late on the elf riot topic) sorry
I think you have to consider she is the daughter of Loghain who sold those city elves into slavery. I'm sure they would be a lot warmer to Alistair than the daughter of probably that communities most hated fellow, so unless Anora kissed their asses and gave them special treatment which is OOC for her. I doubt she could of never been able to be liked by the elves.

I think another fact into why the riot epilogue comes to her is because Anora is spending more money on infastructure and repairing the nation, so it can prosper long term compared to Alistair who seems to be a people's king who is being more compassionate and understanding to the people now instead of their futures. Which is better is a matter of opinion.

I prefer her ideals and pragmatic approach not to mention I fully believe she is cunning and savvy enough to deal with the politcal game. Even hardened Alistair has a learning curve, and with the nation near ruin, and with so many politcal opportunists out there. I myself don't feel safe putting Alistair on the throne especially with Eamon being his only advisor. 

I think Alistair or Anora marrying the Warden is the best ending for Fereldon. 
Then Alistair or Anora solo
And then marriage between the two.(I just don't see them ever being happy together, and Eamon pushing for her removal sometime down the road is going to cause more problems than they will alleviate by marrying)


As for Loghain. I don't think he would ever let Howe touch Anora. I think Loghain was blind or igorant to Howe's true intentions of really just screwing Fereldon. Howe had an Orelsian mistress and was stealing from the treasury. If Loghain had known about that I'm sure he would of removed Howe. Despite Howe being a good political ally. Technically Howe is probably the 2nd or 3rd most powerful figure in Fereldon during the Blight since he took over the Cousland's Teryn.

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

But the point of that, is that there's no guarantee. And a Cousland consort would not be an equal union.

But if the Cousland is Teyrn of Gwaren, and brother to Teyrn of Highever and commander of Ferelden's armies and extremily popular (savior of Ferelden). Then they are de facto almost on equal footing. And its' good that Anora has more power than Cousland, I don't mind that.  It means she can make policy decisions without being too encumbered.  

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

With Alistair hardened and married to Anora, he goes off, studies governing, surprises everyone, including her, and the whole realm think it's the best thing since sliced nug. Anora goes off and gets to do her civil and social improvements, Alistair gets to do his warm and fuzzy bit making the poor people happy, no rioting.

And what if Alsitair decides he wants to veto all of Anora's decisions? He makes it quite clear that he doesn't want to let her have her way. What if they have disagreement on policy issues? How is that going to be resolved?

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
But, even more so, the union, as I said, unites two sides in opposition from the civil war. Opposition on both sides is quelled. The Eamon-crowd are happy, the Anora support crowd are happy, everyone gets their way. You would not have this with a Cousland/Anora union, and certainly not with a Cousland/Alistair union.

If Alistair is dead, the Therein supporters no longer have any claim and thus, they stfu. They don't have to be pleased, they already lost. The Cousland being very popular subsitute for this easily. 

[Bruddajakka]

In the long run it really doesn't matter if the elves love or don't love her. The nobles, and the rest of the country do. The Elves aren't important in the long run. Their Elves.



And honestly I'm pretty sure Howe was responsible for the more evil events that Loghain got saddled with. Though the Couslands are solely on Howe, and it's what Loghain used to keep him under his thumb.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Crap, I deleted that Origins save, only have Awakenings saves for that character.



Anyone else have a post coronation save where Alistair/Anora are married and rule jointly? I've never played a male warden, and like Addai, I have gotten the Golden Age epilogue. It wasn't from Alistair solo, and it wasn't from Anora solo, either. Since I'm yet to marry a warden to Alistair, the only other possibility is Anora/Alistair.

[Bruddajakka]

I probably do. Give me a moment.

Edit: 

Anora weds Alistair and they rule together both in matters of court
and law, and both making personal appearances together, supervising the
reconstruction process, meeting the enthusiastic approval of the people
to the point where it was considered that the chaos of the civil war and
the landsmeet were worth it for delivering such beloved monarchs.

Modifié par Bruddajakka, 10 septembre 2010 - 05:39 .

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

The only time I have ever gotten the Golden Age is with Cousland/Anora. They may give a similar ending to a Cousland/Alistair if you guys aren't in a romance, and still wed.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bruddajakka wrote...

I probably do. Give me a moment.

Edit: 

[qoute]Anora weds Alistair and they rule together both in matters of court
and law, and both making personal appearances together, supervising the
reconstruction process, meeting the enthusiastic approval of the people
to the point where it was considered that the chaos of the civil war and
the landsmeet were worth it for delivering such beloved monarchs.[/qoute]

That's what I thought.

Hmmm, maybe there is a bug in your epilogue Skadi?
This is indeed weird.

[Bruddajakka]

Yeah I always thought the Golden Age was a way for them to compare Anora to Elizabeth since her rule has a lot of similarities.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And what if Alsitair decides he wants to veto all of Anora's decisions? He makes it quite clear that he doesn't want to let her have her way. What if they have disagreement on policy issues? How is that going to be resolved?

The same way all important world shattering descisions are made. A coin flip.

Seriously, though, In the epilogue where I had a bitter, angry Alistair marry Anora with daddy present and accounted for, it didn't happen. They both ruled together fine, even if they were both insanely miserable with each other.

Of course, we are speaking of IFs, then it is also possible to have a "What if Anora and Alistair get along smashingly, and rainbows and butterflies are expelled from them when they fart" conclusion. Since we are goping with IFs.

If Alistair is dead, the Therein supporters no longer have any claim and thus, they stfu. They don't have to be pleased, they already lost. The Cousland being very popular subsitute for this easily. 

You would be wrong. They lost. Fereldens aren't ones to let it go so lightly. Remeber, the codexes, they start wars over dog-namings. It's not about claim, it's about lingering resentment. And, out of all those nobles, given the way nobility has a tendancy to inbreed, then I'm sure there are probably many distant removed cousins to the line that might start crap.

If the Therin supporters are not pleased, they are not going to get behind the union as strongly, and are more likely to be receptive to chances to undermine or revolt.

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Crap, I deleted that Origins save, only have Awakenings saves for that character.

Anyone else have a post coronation save where Alistair/Anora are married and rule jointly? I've never played a male warden, and like Addai, I have gotten the Golden Age epilogue. It wasn't from Alistair solo, and it wasn't from Anora solo, either. Since I'm yet to marry a warden to Alistair, the only other possibility is Anora/Alistair.

Ugh, I will try to go back and recreate it but it will take me a bit.  I've since replayed that character with a different ending, so I'll have to try to dig back in my saves to get the original Alistair-Anora ending.

But several of us have seen this, I just read a blog post someone linked to in the Alistair thread where she was describing her first game experience and she said the same thing about "at least if you marry him off to Anora you get a golden age" etc. etc.