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[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Morrigans God son wrote...

Right... My warden is a human noble, and is arranged to wed to Anora. BUT! I made Alistair kill Loghain, so that Alistair would live. (Because who wants to kill Alistair? right?) Anyways... I did the dark ritual, and at the end it says Alistair died anyway? How? I didnt see him die.

Did this happen for the rest of you guys? I'm just wondering, because I went to alot of effort to keep the bloke alive...and he dies anyway!

I've had it happen too. Post coronation, solo Anora or even anora betrothed to Alistair, I've gotten her talking about Alistair like he's dead when he's standing right there, or talking about him like she's going to marry him when he did the sacrifice. As far as epilogue slides went, however, they reflected his proper state. Though I've heard of other people getting slides showing incorrect states for Alistair, Morrigan, and other companions or NPCs, or reflecting the wrong choices.

[phaonica]

I was reading about the various dialog tweaks mods and came across this info:

IMPORTANT: The end game is notoriously buggy. Some bugs you may encounter might actually VANILLA-GAME bugs. Before you report a bug in the Nexus comments thread, please be aware of the following issues:

• There is a vanilla-game bug in the game that will occasionally have Alistair saying the speech at the Gates of Denerim instead of Anora even if: (a) Anora is the sole ruler and ( Alistair is obviously not King. No matter what I did, I was not able to resolve this issue. If you have any insight on how to fix this, please feel free to e-mail me or PM me at the Nexus.
  
• There is a vanilla-game bug that will sometimes have Anora present at Alistair's coronation, even if she is supposed to be locked up the tower. There isn't anything I can do about this. A reload will most likely fix the issue.
  
• There is a vanilla game bug that will sometimes set Alistair as sole king, even if he is married to Anora. A reload will most likely fix the issue

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=513

Also, one of the fixes included in this particular mod includes

Fixes the bug where Anora would be mentioned as Alistair's Queen, even (a) Your PC is Queen or ( Anora was in the tower

I imagine that there is a good chance, because the endgame is so buggy out-of-the-box that there is a chance the Golden Age slide will fire, even if the PC is queen.

Modifié par phaonica, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:26 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
 More like you decided to follow her, then racked your brains for a rational reason to do so to keep your reputation of rational level-headedness intact.

We know you.

lol Well at least it worked out well, no?
But honest, I initially didn't want to follow her (but was very tempted because of love), until I thought about it.
Reason and emotion can sometimes very conveniently converge on one course.  

[CalJones]

Yeah, there seems to be issues with certain pairings if Loghain dies. But, well, that hasn't happened to me, for rather obvious reasons.

[Bruddajakka]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
 More like you decided to follow her, then racked your brains for a rational reason to do so to keep your reputation of rational level-headedness intact.

We know you.

lol Well at least it worked out well, no?
But honest, I initially didn't want to follow her (but was very tempted because of love), until I thought about it.
Reason and emotion can sometimes very conveniently converge on one course.  

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

[CalJones]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
lol Well at least it worked out well, no?
But honest, I initially didn't want to follow her (but was very tempted because of love), until I thought about it.
Reason and emotion can sometimes very conveniently converge on one course.  

I had the same set-up,  but my Cousland-consort didn't follow her. I RP'd him as having fallen for Anora, so even though he still had feelings for Morrigan, Anora and his duty to Fereldan came first.
I'm currently making a mage chap just for the sole purpose of following Morrigan through the damned mirror, heh. He'll be chancellor, for a time, though - if only to keep Eamon in Redcliffe.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

phaonica wrote...

[*]
Also, one of the fixes included in this particular mod includes

Fixes the bug where Anora would be mentioned as Alistair's Queen, even (a) Your PC is Queen or ( Anora was in the tower

I imagine that there is a good chance, because the endgame is so buggy out-of-the-box that there is a change the Golden Age slide will fire, even if the PC is queen.

[*]
[*]
[*]Thank you, ever so much, phaonica, for posting this. I knew I wasn't imaging things. So it was most likely a glitch from a mod then, or a glitch. I knew I remembered correctly, even if it was a correctly remembered glitch or bug!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bruddajakka wrote...

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

Now imagine if she was pregnant. Ha! Poor Leli indeed.

[phaonica]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

phaonica wrote...



[*]
Also, one of the fixes included in this particular mod includes

Fixes the bug where Anora would be mentioned as Alistair's Queen, even (a) Your PC is Queen or ( Anora was in the tower

I imagine that there is a good chance, because the endgame is so buggy out-of-the-box that there is a change the Golden Age slide will fire, even if the PC is queen.

[*]Thank you, ever so much, phaonica, for posting this. I knew I wasn't imaging things. So it was most likely a glitch from a mod then, or a glitch. I knew I remembered correctly, even if it was a correctly remembered glitch or bug!

Even so, if the incorrect slide fired, it would still say PCName and Anora ruled with a Golden Age. Because there is no PCName and Alistair Golden Age slide to fire.

Modifié par phaonica, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:07 .

[Zjarcal]

Bruddajakka wrote...

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

Those are the consequences of being such a horndog!

[Bruddajakka]

Now imagine if she was pregnant. Ha! Poor Leli indeed.

Hell for the longest time that was my reason why she stayed behind in Denerim. Still is I suppose. Oh well Zev or Alistair can look after them.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
lol Well at least it worked out well, no?
But honest, I initially didn't want to follow her (but was very tempted because of love), until I thought about it.
Reason and emotion can sometimes very conveniently converge on one course.  

Very true. I've done it enough times myself in the case of Alistair, in different playthroughs. They don't always have to conflict. One can find reasonable solutions to the heart's dilema if they look and try hard enough.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

phaonica wrote...
[*]Even so, if the incorrect slide fired, it would still say PCName and Anora ruled with a Golden Age. Because there is no PCName and Alistair Golden Age slide to fire.

[*]
[*]Yeah I know. But that wasn't the slide I was refering to, since my PCs never marry Alistair and rule with him. The only marriage I've ever entered him into is with Anora, or he ruled alone in one instance, or more commonly, he remained a Warden. I know no golden age is associated with a Cousland/Alistair union, because I've seen other people's epilogues who did marry him.

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:22 .

[Monica21]

ejoslin wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't think Howe told Loghain that he wanted to kill Anora. I think he told him that he wanted to remove Anora from the throne and make Loghain king instead. Or am I wrong? I don't know I forgot.
Loghain definately did not know what was going on imo. He thought he could control Howe while in reality, Howe was too devious for that.

It actually IS in the dialog, that Howe wanted her killed.  Here it is:

Warden: Were you really going to kill Anora?
Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.
Warden: Why would she invent such a story?
Loghain: I didn't say that.
Loghain: Howe suggested the possibility; I rejected it, of course. Undoubtedly, that discussion was the inspiration for her story.

Edit: This snippet completely changed my mind about the whole "Rescue the Queen" quest.  

I haven't read through the rest of the thread so maybe this has been answered, but did you get that from the toolset? When I ask Loghain that he says something about Anora being a politician and always knowing how to move people. Nothing about a conversation that Howe wanted her killed.

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

phaonica wrote...



[*]
Also, one of the fixes included in this particular mod includes

Fixes the bug where Anora would be mentioned as Alistair's Queen, even (a) Your PC is Queen or ( Anora was in the tower

I imagine that there is a good chance, because the endgame is so buggy out-of-the-box that there is a change the Golden Age slide will fire, even if the PC is queen.

Thank you, ever so much, phaonica, for posting this. I knew I wasn't imaging things. So it was most likely a glitch from a mod then, or a glitch. I knew I remembered correctly, even if it was a correctly remembered glitch or bug!

Dunno, for me that could not have been the case.  Setup was Dalish Warden, Alistair hardened + Anora marriage, Warden stays Alistair's mistress but leaves to rebuild the Wardens.  And pretty sure I saw "Alistair and Anora usher in a Golden Age" blah blah.
Whatever, like I said, I don't care.  Friends don't let friends marry Anora.  I was weak. 

Modifié par Addai67, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:22 .

[Sarah1281]

You know there is another good alternative to the Warden marrying Anora, and that's the Warden becoming Teyrn, and romancing Leli. Since he'd still be the most powerful Noble in Ferelden more or less, and he'd still be around to counter Anora if need be. I suppose Alistair would work as well but I'm pretty sure they always state they disappear.

Why would Leliana be a part of the good alternative? I understand if you're romancing her but as far as just good politics, Leliana is kind of Orlesian. And a former bard. That will definitely be used against you and if you don't marry her there are other Ferelden women who can be married to deal with heirs.

I'm still strongly leaning that the gift she left was a cure for the taint, or a way for the Warden to have children. Seems like a good way to repay a female Warden. A Child for a child.

The Warden CAN have a child. She just can't have one with Alistair (by normal means).

I haven't read through the rest of the thread so maybe this has been answered, but did you get that from the toolset? When I ask Loghain that he says something about Anora being a politician and always knowing how to move people. Nothing about a conversation that Howe wanted her killed.

I believe the toolset says that he has to be friendly before admitting that.

[phaonica]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I haven't read through the rest of the thread so maybe this has been answered, but did you get that from the toolset? When I ask Loghain that he says something about Anora being a politician and always knowing how to move people. Nothing about a conversation that Howe wanted her killed.

I believe the toolset says that he has to be friendly before admitting that.

Yeah, you have to be at "friendly" to get the line, and the game doesn't let you get to friendly so you cannot see it anywhere except the toolkit. There are a few lines that are in that range that you can't get in-game.

[CalJones]

Ah, and you can't actually get him to Friendly - you can only get him to 100 Warm. Which is a shame. Perhaps they cut a personal quest.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

I think the vagueness of Golden Age for the PC+Anora is to leave it open ended to use your imagination on how it happened and what happened to achieve it.

While Alistair ruling with Anora needs to be more fleshed out, and explained since we don't have that attachment to them like we would our warden.

Both seem to do a lot of good for the country, but I think Alistair+Anora wouldn't be good long term due to the whole heir thing and Eamon's belief Anora is barren. Not saying a Cousland is more fertile than Anora or Alistair, but they have a plan b(Fergus), and I doubt Eamon would even attempt to bring up the subject of an heir to Alistair about the Warden or the Warden about Anora, and if he did I doubt he would have much success convincing them.


Also about Leliana and an heir. I could only see that happening if you saved Loghain and put Anora up on the throne solo.  If the Warden was Teyrn of Gwaren and Leliana his Teryna they could have children possibly the children would be raised as nobles and accepted as nobles. Anora would have to never produce an heir, and have to choose Highever or Gwaren to be next in line. I think she would pick the Hero of Fereldon's children over Fergus'. I'm quite certain she wouldn't pick anyone from Eamon's influence.

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:39 .

[ejoslin]

Monica21 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't think Howe told Loghain that he wanted to kill Anora. I think he told him that he wanted to remove Anora from the throne and make Loghain king instead. Or am I wrong? I don't know I forgot.
Loghain definately did not know what was going on imo. He thought he could control Howe while in reality, Howe was too devious for that.

It actually IS in the dialog, that Howe wanted her killed.  Here it is:

Warden: Were you really going to kill Anora?
Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.
Warden: Why would she invent such a story?
Loghain: I didn't say that.
Loghain: Howe suggested the possibility; I rejected it, of course. Undoubtedly, that discussion was the inspiration for her story.

Edit: This snippet completely changed my mind about the whole "Rescue the Queen" quest.  

I haven't read through the rest of the thread so maybe this has been answered, but did you get that from the toolset? When I ask Loghain that he says something about Anora being a politician and always knowing how to move people. Nothing about a conversation that Howe wanted her killed.

You have to be "friendly" to get that response.  Hmmmm, since he doesn't have a personal quest, I suppose it would never actually fire.  I need to see if there's a trigger to get him to "friendly."  At a later date.  MUCH later

[Monica21]

phaonica wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I haven't read through the rest of the thread so maybe this has been answered, but did you get that from the toolset? When I ask Loghain that he says something about Anora being a politician and always knowing how to move people. Nothing about a conversation that Howe wanted her killed.

I believe the toolset says that he has to be friendly before admitting that.

Yeah, you have to be at "friendly" to get the line, and the game doesn't let you get to friendly so you cannot see it anywhere except the toolkit. There are a few lines that are in that range that you can't get in-game.

Okay, that makes more sense. Even so, I find myself directing my anger toward Howe in this scenario. I think Loghain had let Howe too far in to know how to get rid of him by this point in the game. Loghain could easily have thought he still needed Howe and planned to get rid of him after the Landsmeet. His concern for Anora is obviously very real, even if they are estranged. I would imagine Loghain's reaction to be a bit stronger than a simple "no."

And in regards to Anora, I was impressed with her my first playthrough and put her on the throne. I've gone between her and Alistair, but my canon playthrough has Anora ruling with Alistair.

[keesio74]

I believe that Anora will do what is best for Ferelden. And I believe she has the skills to be a good Queen. And she believes she is the best choice for Ferelden and will do anything to be Queen. An effective ruler is not always the nicest ruler. Anora fits that bill.

[LobselVith8]

ejoslin wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Since the Warden can only chose Shianni as Bann (unless they perform the US and the Warden's father Cyrion is then elected First Bann), and none of this is mentioned in Awakening or any other post-DA:O DLC, I'd assume that none of those results are canon.

Well, to be fair, Awakening threw out a LOT of the epilogue cards. No one is claiming these are canon. They can't be "canon" as they can only happen if a city elf requests them.

But really, you can't know if these were taken out deliberately or kept out by a bug -- it could very well be a data entry error (there are tons of them, trust me, I spent a lot of time hunting them down and fixing them). Unfortunately, where the flags for this are set in a place that is not accessible so it's hard to say what was meant to be and what wasn't.

Canon as in capable of happening. In canon, the Dalish or the werewolves aid the Warden; it's one or the other in lore. Nothing suggests that this happens in canon regardless of what route the Warden takes. It's likely this was cut just like the Warden being able to kill both the mages and the templars (if Wynne opened up the possibility of the Warden using blood magic). Given that the Warden can be an elf and a mage, and no one rises up against him or her in Awakening because the Arl of Amaranthine is now an elf, I'd guess that the cards were taken out for a reason.

[LobselVith8]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I think the welfare of the improverished is pretty important. Alistair brings progress to the elves, which is why it's a good idea to elect him with Anora. They can accomplish together what they would seperately.

Actually, them being poor means very cheap and desperate labour, which is more important for Ferelden at its current stage of development. Only when Ferelden becomes a market based conssumption based economy, would enriching the poor be important (so they can consume).

Or if they hate each other, they can keep vetoing their decisions and do nothing.
But I can see the benefits of such a union. Still prefer Cousland / Anora by far.

I'm guessing your Cousland Warden is going to be the Napoleon to an elven Toussaint L'Ouverture.

[Sarah1281]

Given that the Warden can be an elf and a mage, and no one rises up against him or her in Awakening because the Arl of Amaranthine is now an elf, I'd guess that the cards were taken out for a reason.

The cards all say 'eventually' this happens. As in, presumably in at least a few years. Awakening has you being the Arl or Arlessa for a few months at most and then the epilogue shows you don't stay on for very long.