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[ejoslin]

LobselVith8 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Since the Warden can only chose Shianni as Bann (unless they perform the US and the Warden's father Cyrion is then elected First Bann), and none of this is mentioned in Awakening or any other post-DA:O DLC, I'd assume that none of those results are canon.

Well, to be fair, Awakening threw out a LOT of the epilogue cards. No one is claiming these are canon. They can't be "canon" as they can only happen if a city elf requests them.

But really, you can't know if these were taken out deliberately or kept out by a bug -- it could very well be a data entry error (there are tons of them, trust me, I spent a lot of time hunting them down and fixing them). Unfortunately, where the flags for this are set in a place that is not accessible so it's hard to say what was meant to be and what wasn't.

Canon as in capable of happening. In canon, the Dalish or the werewolves aid the Warden; it's one or the other in lore. Nothing suggests that this happens in canon regardless of what route the Warden takes. It's likely this was cut just like the Warden being able to kill both the mages and the templars (if Wynne opened up the possibility of the Warden using blood magic). Given that the Warden can be an elf and a mage, and no one rises up against him or her in Awakening because the Arl of Amaranthine is now an elf, I'd guess that the cards were taken out for a reason.

But keep in mind, Awakening was not consistent in several places to Origins lore.

I don't know if the cards were taken out deliberately or because of a bug.  Nor do you.  I can't tell without seeing the post-coronation file.  I do know that quite a few of the epilogue cards that were included, and stayed included in Origins directly contradict Awakening.  I don't think continuity was that big a concern, tbh.

[Viva la France]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

Now imagine if she was pregnant. Ha! Poor Leli indeed.

Well, we know Anora doesn't want kids, so pregnant Leli can secure a Cousland heir.  You might need to do some talking to Anora, but aslong as she has her power she is happy.

Modifié par Viva la France, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:47 .

[Sarah1281]

Viva la France wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

Now imagine if she was pregnant. Ha! Poor Leli indeed.

Well, we know Anora doesn't want kids, so pregnant Leli can secure a Cousland heir.  You might need to do some talking to Anora, but aslong as she has her power she is happy.

You really think Anora would not only be okay with but actually happy that her consort went and had a child with someone else? It's not even as if she can pretend the kid is hers like if she were a male with infertility. One of the reasons given for Alistair being hidden was that his existence would make Rowan look like a concubine. What do you think people would start thinking if the reigning Queen's consort had an heir with someone else? There is no way she would be okay with it. At all.

[MKDAWUSS]

Viva la France wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

Now imagine if she was pregnant. Ha! Poor Leli indeed.

Well, we know Anora doesn't want kids, so pregnant Leli can secure a Cousland heir.  You might need to do some talking to Anora, but aslong as she has her power she is happy.

It might be easier if she got preggers from a threesome

[Sarah1281]

It might be easier if she got preggers from a threesome

How? No one would buy Anora as the dad so I don't see how that would help AT ALL.

[Viva la France]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Viva la France wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

Now imagine if she was pregnant. Ha! Poor Leli indeed.

Well, we know Anora doesn't want kids, so pregnant Leli can secure a Cousland heir.  You might need to do some talking to Anora, but aslong as she has her power she is happy.

It might be easier if she got preggers from a threesome

lol royal threesomes.  I can see Anora pulling rank.

[MKDAWUSS]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It might be easier if she got preggers from a threesome

How? No one would buy Anora as the dad so I don't see how that would help AT ALL.

It's not infidelity if it's a threesome.

As for the succession, it'd probably another Cailan-Alistair situation TBQH.

Also, would King Cousland really be taking a backseat to Queen Anora? Many people still see her as commoner blood, something Cousland blood isn't.

[Viva la France]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Viva la France wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

The only thing I felt a little bad about was that Leli was his mistress, and waiting for him back in Denerim, and we all know how the poor girl handles the Warden leaving her. Poor Leli.

Now imagine if she was pregnant. Ha! Poor Leli indeed.

Well, we know Anora doesn't want kids, so pregnant Leli can secure a Cousland heir.  You might need to do some talking to Anora, but aslong as she has her power she is happy.

You really think Anora would not only be okay with but actually happy that her consort went and had a child with someone else? It's not even as if she can pretend the kid is hers like if she were a male with infertility. One of the reasons given for Alistair being hidden was that his existence would make Rowan look like a concubine. What do you think people would start thinking if the reigning Queen's consort had an heir with someone else? There is no way she would be okay with it. At all.

What I am saying is it would be a smart move to pretend the warden's child was Anoras.  Who would be heir when Anora dies?  Anora knows the marriage is political at first, but she does seem to develop feelings for the warden. so idk.

[Sarah1281]

Also, would King Cousland really be taking a backseat to Queen Anora? Many people still see her as commoner blood, something Cousland blood isn't.

Officially, prince-consort Cousland is, indeed, less powerful than reigning Queen Anora. Yes, he does have a lot of popular support given his hero status but he is still not going to be more powerful than she is.

What I am saying is it would be a smart move to pretend the warden's child was Anoras. Who would be heir when Anora dies? Anora knows the marriage is political at first, but she does seem to develop feelings for the warden. so idk.

How is she supposed to do that? Keep Leliana hidden for a year, fake a pregnancy, take Leliana's child and pretend it's hers? Why would Leliana be okay with that? There's a difference between willing to be a mistress and willing to have your child stolen and raised by your boyfriend's wife. If prince-consort Cousland loves Leliana why would he? And Leliana and Anora don't really look alike. That's why when these things happen, you'd pick a surrogate who resembles the supposed parent.

[MKDAWUSS]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Also, would King Cousland really be taking a backseat to Queen Anora? Many people still see her as commoner blood, something Cousland blood isn't.

Officially, prince-consort Cousland is, indeed, less powerful than reigning Queen Anora. Yes, he does have a lot of popular support given his hero status but he is still not going to be more powerful than she is.
 

But she's still a commoner regardless. I think she even gets excited about marrying Cousland because of how good that looks politically, seeing that now there'll be noble blood on the throne. If Anora produces no heir, any bastard Cousland children would be heirs to the throne since their father was king.

[Sarah1281]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Also, would King Cousland really be taking a backseat to Queen Anora? Many people still see her as commoner blood, something Cousland blood isn't.

Officially, prince-consort Cousland is, indeed, less powerful than reigning Queen Anora. Yes, he does have a lot of popular support given his hero status but he is still not going to be more powerful than she is.
 

But she's still a commoner regardless. I think she even gets excited about marrying Cousland because of how good that looks politically, seeing that now there'll be noble blood on the throne. If Anora produces no heir, any bastard Cousland children would be heirs to the throne since their father was king.

Anora is not a commoner. Commoners cannot take the throne. She was born into the nobility as her father (who was born a commoner) became noble himself. And if it were that easy for any kid a consort had to become King then Queens caught cheating wouldn't have their children's status of heir challenge and possibly revoked.

[Bruddajakka]

Grey Warden seems to trump a lot of things in some cases. Hell in most cases it seems like do whatever you want card as long as you can vaguely contact it to fighting Darkspawn. Though Duncan was way too politically neutral to make use of it freely.

Edit: And it romancing Leli would be do to the fact that he's the only epilogue that shows the Warden staying in Denerim. Every other epilogue has him or her disappearing in some form.

Modifié par Bruddajakka, 11 septembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Sarah1281 wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Also, would King Cousland really be taking a backseat to Queen Anora? Many people still see her as commoner blood, something Cousland blood isn't.

Officially, prince-consort Cousland is, indeed, less powerful than reigning Queen Anora. Yes, he does have a lot of popular support given his hero status but he is still not going to be more powerful than she is.
 

But she's still a commoner regardless. I think she even gets excited about marrying Cousland because of how good that looks politically, seeing that now there'll be noble blood on the throne. If Anora produces no heir, any bastard Cousland children would be heirs to the throne since their father was king.

Anora is not a commoner. Commoners cannot take the throne. She was born into the nobility as her father (who was born a commoner) became noble himself. And if it were that easy for any kid a consort had to become King then Queens caught cheating wouldn't have their children's status of heir challenge and possibly revoked.

Bodahn/Danal/Bartender and Eamon sure seem to think she's a commoner...

[Bruddajakka]

Bodahn/Danal/Bartender and Eamon sure seem to think she's a commoner...

Eamon's a staunch royalist who nearly as bad as Harrowmont when it comes to Traditions. In his eyes SHE is a commonor. A lot of the old blood Nobility were very put out when Loghain was made a Teyrn. To put it mildly. Hell even Bryce seems to have a bit of this going on. Though that depends on the rumors about him being the one to act as messenger between Celene, and Cailen are true. Which is why Loghain had Howe kill him. But then again it's a rumor.

[Sarah1281]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Also, would King Cousland really be taking a backseat to Queen Anora? Many people still see her as commoner blood, something Cousland blood isn't.

Officially, prince-consort Cousland is, indeed, less powerful than reigning Queen Anora. Yes, he does have a lot of popular support given his hero status but he is still not going to be more powerful than she is.
 

But she's still a commoner regardless. I think she even gets excited about marrying Cousland because of how good that looks politically, seeing that now there'll be noble blood on the throne. If Anora produces no heir, any bastard Cousland children would be heirs to the throne since their father was king.

Anora is not a commoner. Commoners cannot take the throne. She was born into the nobility as her father (who was born a commoner) became noble himself. And if it were that easy for any kid a consort had to become King then Queens caught cheating wouldn't have their children's status of heir challenge and possibly revoked.

Bodahn/Danal/Bartender and Eamon sure seem to think she's a commoner...

She is not a commoner or she could not take the throne. Eamon does not call her a commoner and what random peasants think has no bearing on whether or not she is a commoner. Eamon just wants the Theirin line to continue. He would be equally opposed if, say, Cailan married a HN and she was in Anora's place during the Landsmeet.

[ejoslin]

Even Loghain admits she's viewed as not having the proper pedigree.

[Tellervo]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I think Anora is a ****. But she is a very useful, necessary ****,

This.  Anora is a wonderful character story-wise, and I feel the political setting is enriched by her presence.

[Sarah1281]

ejoslin wrote...

Even Loghain admits she's viewed as not having the proper pedigree.

Staunch traditionalist like Eamon thinking she's not noble enough =/= Anora being a commoner.

[phaonica]

ejoslin wrote...

You have to be "friendly" to get that response.  Hmmmm, since he doesn't have a personal quest, I suppose it would never actually fire.  I need to see if there's a trigger to get him to "friendly."  At a later date.  MUCH later

There is a friendly_eligible flag that has to be set before his approval will go that high. I've have it triggering in the mod I'm working on right now.

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

Debate over Anora comes up often enough that I thought she needed her own thread, so here it is. Do you support Anora? If so, here's a place to do it!

(husband posting)

I like Anora, I think I've made her rule somewhere around 50 to 60% of the time.   (In the game, "hardening Allistair" just seems unnatural and out of character the way it handled).


I see Anora in terms of "Character Alignment" a bit more as a Neutral character, although she plays the lawful angle because that fits well with being a monarch.    Some comments by folks like Loghain, that her main loyalty is "to herself" are essentially true.    But it's not always a bad thing.   Her main goal is to run the country and she has the smarts and the where-with-all to do it and do it well.


How well you get along with her depends on your own values and goals.    A person playing a traditonal Lawful Good, Hero or Heroine could easily end up on the wrong side of her.    And essentially get mauled politcally speaking.   But aligning with her I don't think is truely "the evil" option.    If you believe in things like "Meritocracy" there certainly plently of reason to support her.


I also think she, like her father, does have a softer side, once you get to know her.   Of course being able to do that is a challenge because she also very guarded just like her old man.


Anora, incidently, features very prominently in my Fanfict series "The Couslands"

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/97/index/3296546

Modifié par Addai67, 11 septembre 2010 - 11:04 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't think Howe told Loghain that he wanted to kill Anora. I think he told him that he wanted to remove Anora from the throne and make Loghain king instead. Or am I wrong? I don't know I forgot.
Loghain definately did not know what was going on imo. He thought he could control Howe while in reality, Howe was too devious for that.

(husband posting)

Howe said openly that "She would make a better alley dead than alive".    Given that comment it is not unreasonable to be paranoid about his intentions seeing how he tends to screw over anyone he can for political advancement.

[Aeowyn]

I always put Anora on the throne to rule alone. She is a strong character who has been raised for the role and she can handle the greedy politicians and nobles. As for her being cunning and deceiving, well.. it just adds to her being a good ruler IMO. She knows what she wants and she will not back down or let anyone rule for her. Considering the state of Ferelden after the Civil War and the Blight, they need a ruler who will do what is necessary to rebuilt the land.

[Addai]

 quote
Edit: Besides, it's so unlikely that they actually went in and changed an epilogue card (new writing, double checking programming, etc) and didn't take the two seconds to fix the glaring bug where male wardens who romanced Zevran and traveled were referred to as a woman that people were screaming about all over the forums.
quote
 


(Husband posting here)

That's my thought too.   I think the non-warden "Golden Age" is Socially Constructed.    A prominent game writer or blogger mentions it figuratively speaking  or actually goofs up the details in his review piece.   Other people read it, in retrospect they also remember seeing it on their play throughs via the power of suggestion (There are many psychologys studies that show the malleability of human memory).

Modifié par Addai67, 11 septembre 2010 - 11:32 .

[Addai]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...
 

Highever or Gwaren to be next in line. I think she would pick the Hero of Fereldon's children over Fergus'. I'm quite certain she wouldn't pick anyone from Eamon's influence.

(husband posting)

Tha's my thought too about Fergus vs. the Warden.   The game seems to use the the Trope "Authority equals ass kicking" described below.   And well Fergus seems to be a bit of a light weight the way one dark spawn patrol knocked him out for the entire game.



tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AuthorityEqualsAsskicking

[Addai]

I don't know if the cards were taken out deliberately or because of a bug.  Nor do you.  I can't tell without seeing the post-coronation file.  I do know that quite a few of the epilogue cards that were included, and stayed included in Origins directly contradict Awakening.  I don't think continuity was that big a concern, tbh.

(husband posting)


Is it too crazy of an idea to use what the actual Dragon Age web site actually lists as Canon?   (If not someone should Ask Gaider the next time he does one of his streaming interviews)

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Epilogue