486 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

MariSkep wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
Yep; his duty. And then it might not have been a sacrifice.

His duty is above all else to Ferelden. Not Cailan.

And Alim's is to keep the whole world turning.

"Sucks to be you." Alim proceeds with the execution.

Explain how exactly he is helping the world to turn when the person who has more experience than you, and was tortured by Loghain wanted him spared.
What he was afraid Alistair would be upset?

[Wulfram]

It's quite touching, the way people have such absolute faith in Loghain's motives at Ostagar when even Anora and Ser Cauthrien doubt him.

[Elhanan]

Persephone wrote...

1) How very black & white of you. Most of my characters care about Alistair and they all listen to him. But because I care about him, I won't kill to satisfy his childish bloodlust. The whole idea "If you luff Alistair, you MUST kill Loghain!" makes me sick. Spare him once. Talk to him. Kindly. He is a fascinating character.

Not bloodlust; law of the Landsmeet. My like or dislike has nothing to do why I chose *snicker-snack* as justice. I believe it is merited. And I do speak to Loghain a few times; kindly even. I may even console Anora on his loss to Archie afterwards, as she gets her hero, and I finally get justice.

2) Prevent it? How? By charging into an already overrun battlefield? Duncan "could" have saved Cailan too. So did he kill him indirectly too?

Evidence within the game suggests that Loghain retreats BEFORE the King is overwhlemed (ie; Racked Noble). And leaving the King and possibly thousands to die is murder, though I am uncertain of what degree.

3) You obviously don't know. Because Power-mad is one of the few things he is not. 

I do not believe Loghain is mad for his own power. I believe he is guilty of believing his own PR. He does not know everything, and his POV is not canon. What I like personally about Loghain as a villain is that he is genuine in his tilted view of his world, and he is bent on seeing it rebuilt and/or maintained. Best CRPG villain I have seen, but still deserving of death.

[xXhayleyroxXx]

Monica21 wrote...

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...
If you spare Loghain, you haven't listened to Alistair, and don't care about him -- which my character does - which is why I don't spare him.

There's a difference between caring about someone and being willing to blindly kill just because someone said "Kill him already!"

I actually do care about Alistair and I have killed Loghain because of Alistair and then just let Alistiar kill Loghain so I wouldn't have to make the decision myself. It doesn't change my mind at this point though, that killing Loghain is a bad idea and that Alistair's decisions are his own.

I'll reply to you because the other's are taking it too personally imo
At the end of the day, I wanted my noble to marry Alistair and so I kill Loghain each time.

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

It's quite touching, the way people have such absolute faith in Loghain's motives at Ostagar when even Anora and Ser Cauthrien doubt him.

My faith in him isn't absolute. Ostagar is a grey area in many ways. Not just regarding Loghain, mind you. Anora's true feelings for her father are shown only twice: When he is about to die and in the Epilogue Card when she rules alone.

As for Cauthrien: I am quite certain that she is in love with him. Women in love aren't exactly reliable witnesses.

[KnightofPhoenix]

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...
At the end of the day, I wanted my noble to marry Alistair and so I kill Loghain each time.

Eh, simple, honest and without bs. Why not? 

[xXhayleyroxXx]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...
At the end of the day, I wanted my noble to marry Alistair and so I kill Loghain each time.

Eh, simple, honest and without bs. Why not? 

That's the main reason :innocent: but I still don't like Loghain for the other reasons I mentioned.

[MKDAWUSS]

Persephone wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

It's quite touching, the way people have such absolute faith in Loghain's motives at Ostagar when even Anora and Ser Cauthrien doubt him.

My faith in him isn't absolute. Ostagar is a grey area in many ways. Not just regarding Loghain, mind you. Anora's true feelings for her father are shown only twice: When he is about to die and in the Epilogue Card when she rules alone.

As for Cauthrien: I am quite certain that she is in love with him. Women in love aren't exactly reliable witnesses.

I thought Cauthrien was more like Loghain's adopted daughter

[KnightofPhoenix]

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...

That's the main reason :innocent: but I still don't like Loghain for the other reasons I mentioned.

I wish I could find people willing to kill for me in real life.

[Giggles_Manically]

How is it foolishness?

He was captured by Loghain because he made an error.



Not saying that Riordian is the smartest coconut in the bunch though, but he was tricked by Loghain just like the vast majority of people were.



Also I tend to listen to someone who has more experience is matters than me, just sayin.

[Persephone]

Elhanan wrote...

Persephone wrote...

1) How very black & white of you. Most of my characters care about Alistair and they all listen to him. But because I care about him, I won't kill to satisfy his childish bloodlust. The whole idea "If you luff Alistair, you MUST kill Loghain!" makes me sick. Spare him once. Talk to him. Kindly. He is a fascinating character.

Not bloodlust; law of the Landsmeet. My like or dislike has nothing to do why I chose *snicker-snack* as justice. I believe it is merited. And I do speak to Loghain a few times; kindly even. I may even console Anora on his loss to Archie afterwards, as she gets her hero, and I finally get justice.

2) Prevent it? How? By charging into an already overrun battlefield? Duncan "could" have saved Cailan too. So did he kill him indirectly too?

Evidence within the game suggests that Loghain retreats BEFORE the King is overwhlemed (ie; Racked Noble). And leaving the King and possibly thousands to die is murder, though I am uncertain of what degree.

3) You obviously don't know. Because Power-mad is one of the few things he is not. 

I do not believe Loghain is mad for his own power. I believe he is guilty of believing his own PR. He does not know everything, and his POV is not canon. What I like personally about Loghain as a villain is that he is genuine in his tilted view of his world, and he is bent on seeing it rebuilt and/or maintained. Best CRPG villain I have seen, but still deserving of death.

The Wardens choice to ignore Riordan's (good) advice is "the law of the Landsmeet"? Isn't that how dictators start out?

I see little such evidence. The cutscene showing his retreat shows the king's army in DESPAIR, unable to hold out much longer. Again, leaving lost troops to die to save the rest is not murder. It has been done my the greatest generals. If you insist on the DAO setting, look at the battle of West Hill. Kings fall in battle. Emperors do too. The generals who "failed" to save them due to retreat, losses etc. aren't murderers.

Power obviously does not make him happy. Once he is no longer Regent, he is a different man. Check out his Awakening cameo. If he deserves death in your opinion, fine. That doesn't make it a fact.

[Persephone]

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...
If you spare Loghain, you haven't listened to Alistair, and don't care about him -- which my character does - which is why I don't spare him.

There's a difference between caring about someone and being willing to blindly kill just because someone said "Kill him already!"

I actually do care about Alistair and I have killed Loghain because of Alistair and then just let Alistiar kill Loghain so I wouldn't have to make the decision myself. It doesn't change my mind at this point though, that killing Loghain is a bad idea and that Alistair's decisions are his own.

I'll reply to you because the other's are taking it too personally imo
At the end of the day, I wanted my noble to marry Alistair and so I kill Loghain each time.

So the "Happily ever after" ending is the real reason. Whatever floats your boat.

[KnightofPhoenix]

MariSkep wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...

That's the main reason :innocent: but I still don't like Loghain for the other reasons I mentioned.

I wish I could find people willing to kill for me in real life.

You could start a cult or get elected to higher office.

I meant women willing to kill for me, as a wedding gift.
Hmmm, I could start a cult about that.

[Merilsell]

Oh wow when is this thread so exploded? But I should have foreseen it somehow. It's about Loghain after all...and like every single time now the landsmeet Alistair thing comes back to account  *w00t*

*grabs popcorn*

[...]

Oh don't mind me, go on.

Modifié par Merilsell, 24 septembre 2010 - 06:36 .

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...

That's the main reason :innocent: but I still don't like Loghain for the other reasons I mentioned.

I wish I could find people willing to kill for me in real life.

You could start a cult or get elected to higher office.

I meant women willing to kill for me, as a wedding gift.
Hmmm, I could start a cult about that.

I have these images of Princess Cous Cous and Alistair quarreling in my head:

P. C. C. : I killed Loghain for you, the least I can expect of you is to wear clean socks!

Alistair: *Whiiiiiiiiiiiiine* But they are dryyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Ahem.....

[Persephone]

Merilsell wrote...

Oh wow when is the this thread so exploded? But I should have foreseen it somehow. It's about Loghain after all ...and now the landsmeet Alistair thing comes back to account ...like every single time *w00t*
*grabs popcorn*
[...]
Oh don't mind me, go on.

Sweet, isn't it? :wizard:

[xXhayleyroxXx]

Yep I love happy endings. And I wouldn't force him to wear clean socks.

[Persephone]

xXhayleyroxXx wrote...

Yep I love happy endings. And I wouldn't force him to wear clean socks.

I for one prefer realistic, angsty endings. As for the socks, smelly socks on a man......HUGE no go in my case. Yuck.

[Giggles_Manically]

Merilsell wrote...

Oh wow when is the this thread so exploded? But I should have foreseen it somehow. It's about Loghain after all ...and now the landsmeet Alistair thing comes back to account ...like every single time *w00t*
*grabs popcorn*
[...]
Oh don't mind me, go on.

I think I will duck out too pass the popcorn.

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...
I for one prefer realistic, angsty endings. As for the socks, smelly socks on a man......HUGE no go in my case. Yuck.

I never thought, I'd agree with you on something but I do. 

[Elhanan]

Persephone wrote...

The Wardens choice to ignore Riordan's (good) advice is "the law of the Landsmeet"? Isn't that how dictators start out?

By following the existing law, one tends to avoid dictatorships. By ignoring the law and those in authority is how one becomes Regent, or so it seems.

I see little such evidence. The cutscene showing his retreat shows the king's army in DESPAIR, unable to hold out much longer. Again, leaving lost troops to die to save the rest is not murder. It has been done my the greatest generals. If you insist on the DAO setting, look at the battle of West Hill. Kings fall in battle. Emperors do too. The generals who "failed" to save them due to retreat, losses etc. aren't murderers.... *snip*

Said cutscene, as well as the Racked Nobles' testimony both indicate that the retreat occured before the King, Duncan, and other men are overwhelmed (ie; Orders to march, then shot of King and Duncan being killed.). Trying to revise history does not help matters.

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Persephone wrote...
I for one prefer realistic, angsty endings. As for the socks, smelly socks on a man......HUGE no go in my case. Yuck.

I never thought, I'd agree with you on something but I do. 

And the world has come to an end.

[xXhayleyroxXx]

Persephone wrote...



I for one prefer realistic, angsty endings. As for the socks, smelly socks on a man......HUGE no go in my case. Yuck.

Oh thats great You can keep your angry, flea-ridden endings and I'll have my happy, happy wedding