486 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

Zjarcal wrote...
I never said they were worthless. I've enjoyed several of the Loghain debates, but there comes a point where you realize that this is going nowhere. I usually realize that once the discussion returns to square one, which happens a lot in most Loghain centric threads.

Square one seems to be "Do you think his crimes deserve death?" "Yes." "No." ad infinitum.

[Giggles_Manically]

Monica21 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
I never said they were worthless. I've enjoyed several of the Loghain debates, but there comes a point where you realize that this is going nowhere. I usually realize that once the discussion returns to square one, which happens a lot in most Loghain centric threads.

Square one seems to be "Do you think his crimes deserve death?" "Yes." "No." ad infinitum.

Rule #1 Of A Loghain Thread.
The closer the thread nears to infinity, the probability of "Monica's Rule" coming into effect nears 1.

[Monica21]

Ooo... a whole law named after me? Can I get one of those Thermodynamics ones next?

[Giggles_Manically]

Monica21 wrote...

Ooo... a whole law named after me? Can I get one of those Thermodynamics ones next?

Dont get to excited.
Its on a temporary interim  manner that I was using it.
I have yet to publish my findings in an good journal. 

[Monica21]

Cosmopolitan is not a "good journal." Just FYI.

[Giggles_Manically]

Monica21 wrote...

Cosmopolitan is not a "good journal." Just FYI.

Fudge.

[Persephone]

MariSkep wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Also as a DC warden you are a mob man, pretty much everything youve done things as bad as what Loghain's cronies have done.

Please don't compare what someone with literally no other way to survive and keep his/her family fed and safe does to what a senior official with almost every resource available to him does because he can't stop fighting a war that ended almost a generation ago.

That war has not ended. All of those who suffered under the occupation know this. Orlais won't give up that easily. Why else send 4 legions of chevaliers, why else would Celene manipulate Cailan? 

[TJPags]

The war with Orlais was not over? Really?



Come on now.

[Giggles_Manically]

TJPags wrote...

The war with Orlais was not over? Really?

Come on now.

They never signed a peace treaty TMK.

[Persephone]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The war with Orlais was not over? Really?

Come on now.

They never signed a peace treaty TMK.

In addition to that, it's like England being at war with Scotland/Ireland for centuries. Invasion attempts. Assassination plots. Dirty politics. Such a "war" doesn't just end thirty years after the invaders were thrown out.

[Giggles_Manically]

Persephone wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The war with Orlais was not over? Really?

Come on now.

They never signed a peace treaty TMK.

In addition to that, it's like England being at war with Scotland/Ireland for centuries. Invasion attempts. Assassination plots. Dirty politics. Such a "war" doesn't just end thirty years after the invaders were thrown out.

True ignoring the fact the Orlais is an empire, Celene is compared to Catherine the Great, and that Ferelden is wobbly at the moment are dangerous.

Although Loghain did take it to far.

[Persephone]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The war with Orlais was not over? Really?

Come on now.

They never signed a peace treaty TMK.

In addition to that, it's like England being at war with Scotland/Ireland for centuries. Invasion attempts. Assassination plots. Dirty politics. Such a "war" doesn't just end thirty years after the invaders were thrown out.

True ignoring the fact the Orlais is an empire, Celene is compared to Catherine the Great, and that Ferelden is wobbly at the moment are dangerous.

Although Loghain did take it to far.

He did. Without question. He let past traumata and paranoia cloud his judgment. Which he admits later.

[Wulfram]

According to the wiki



"Ferelden and Orlais officially make peace in 9:20 after the ascension of Empress Celene to the Orlesian throne. "



Though I do agree that in Loghain's mind the war never ended. Which is one reason to find the idea that he'll stop selling elves into slavery after the war a bit unsatisfactory.

[Giggles_Manically]

Wulfram wrote...

According to the wiki

"Ferelden and Orlais officially make peace in 9:20 after the ascension of Empress Celene to the Orlesian throne. "

Though I do agree that in Loghain's mind the war never ended. Which is one reason to find the idea that he'll stop selling elves into slavery after the war a bit unsatisfactory.

Pieces of paper hold no meaning in politics.

That could just be my anger from Civ 5 seeping over. The AI in that game is just nasty.

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

According to the wiki

"Ferelden and Orlais officially make peace in 9:20 after the ascension of Empress Celene to the Orlesian throne. "

Though I do agree that in Loghain's mind the war never ended. Which is one reason to find the idea that he'll stop selling elves into slavery after the war a bit unsatisfactory.

What has one got to do with the other again?

And official peace making (How? Peace treaty? Yearly payments?) is all good and fine. But as my example with England & Scotland/Ireland shows, peace treaties are usually ignored. Our own history tells us that in abundance.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

What has one got to do with the other again?

Selling the elves is a temporary measure, while Ferelden is under threat.  But in Loghain's mind, Ferelden is always under threat.  So when will the temporary measure actually end?  When Val Royeaux burns?

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

What has one got to do with the other again?

Selling the elves is a temporary measure, while Ferelden is under threat.  But in Loghain's mind, Ferelden is always under threat.  So when will the temporary measure actually end?  When Val Royeaux burns?

It was because of the civil war and the Blight eating up his resources and the Alienage being very hard to defend. No excuse for it, of course. But that is how it is. And the slavers themselves mention that they'll have to leave soon.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

It was because of the civil war and the Blight eating up his resources and the Alienage being very hard to defend. No excuse for it, of course. But that is how it is. And the slavers themselves mention that they'll have to leave soon.

He won't be short of resources when fighting the mightiest nation in Thedas?

[TJPags]

Wow - so they never officially made peace, although the game codex says they did. Even then, that's not enough to consider the war over even after 30 years.



So then, are we still fighting World War II? Or I? Is the American Revolution still going on? England and France still at war? When exactly does a war end?



Wow. Just . . . wow.

[Giggles_Manically]

TJPags wrote...

Wow - so they never officially made peace, although the game codex says they did. Even then, that's not enough to consider the war over even after 30 years.

So then, are we still fighting World War II? Or I? Is the American Revolution still going on? England and France still at war? When exactly does a war end?

Wow. Just . . . wow.

Still acting like an arse I see.

They formalized a peace, dosent mean that Celene cant be planning something, or that they will leave Ferelden alone forever. Empires dont really like being snubbed. 

[TJPags]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Wow - so they never officially made peace, although the game codex says they did. Even then, that's not enough to consider the war over even after 30 years.

So then, are we still fighting World War II? Or I? Is the American Revolution still going on? England and France still at war? When exactly does a war end?

Wow. Just . . . wow.

Still acting like an arse I see.

They formalized a peace, dosent mean that Celene cant be planning something, or that they will leave Ferelden alone forever. Empires dont really like being snubbed. 

Acting like an arse?  Because I'm pointing out that people who say they never made peace are wrong?

I don't care if Celene "might" be up to something.  There ain't a damn thing in the game that indicates she actually is.

You want to buy into Loghains paranoia, good for you.  I don't.  He, and you, should wise up and see the facts.  Or else visit the same shrink.

Modifié par TJPags, 26 septembre 2010 - 06:01 .

[Monica21]

TJPags wrote...

Wow - so they never officially made peace, although the game codex says they did. Even then, that's not enough to consider the war over even after 30 years.

So then, are we still fighting World War II? Or I? Is the American Revolution still going on? England and France still at war? When exactly does a war end?

Wow. Just . . . wow.

The war is over, but that doesn't mean Orlais should be ignored. The U.S. "fought" the British for decades after the Revolution, peace treaties included. The British even tried to help the South defeat the North during our own Civil War. Seventy years of a brutal occupation doesn't exactly lead to hand-holding and singing 30 years later. Most of the nobles would like to forget the occupation, but those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Loghain was right to be cautious of the Chevaliers on the border. Celene also proves much more cunning than former rulers, in trying to secure Ferelden by marriage.

[Wulfram]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Still acting like an arse I see.

They formalized a peace, dosent mean that Celene cant be planning something, or that they will leave Ferelden alone forever. Empires dont really like being snubbed. 

Surely Celene has better things to do than get bogged down conquering as stubborn, poor, backward and wet dog smelling as Ferelden?

Unless Loghain forced her into it, of course.  He does seem to be doing his best to provoke a war, and outlawing the grey wardens during a blight could make it seem almost a necessity.

[Monica21]

TJPags wrote...
I don't care if Celene "might" be up to something.  There ain't a damn thing in the game that indicates she actually is.

Except for the mention of a permanent alliance and the informal tone in which the letter was written. Yes, even without Gaider's confirmation, Celene was definitely up to something.

[Giggles_Manically]

TJPags wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Wow - so they never officially made peace, although the game codex says they did. Even then, that's not enough to consider the war over even after 30 years.

So then, are we still fighting World War II? Or I? Is the American Revolution still going on? England and France still at war? When exactly does a war end?

Wow. Just . . . wow.

Still acting like an arse I see.

They formalized a peace, dosent mean that Celene cant be planning something, or that they will leave Ferelden alone forever. Empires dont really like being snubbed. 

Acting like an arse?  Because I'm pointing out that people who say they never made peace are wrong?

I don't care if Celene "might" be up to something.  There ain't a damn thing in the game that indicates she actually is.

You want to buy into Loghains paranoia, good for you.  I don't.  He, and you, should wise up and see the facts.

What the facts that:
A small country that only thirty years ago beat out a larger empire that lies on the border?
That Orlais is an EMPIRE with a very powerful leader on the throne?
That Calian was considering marrying her, showing that she was up to somthing?

That Empires do invade, and try to conquer? That being their national pastime beside roadbuilding?
The fact is, you think you are correct, I think I am correct.

We both think the other is an idiot, and we both will never change on that. 
Maybe we should drop this line of reasoning before youre feelings get hurt.