486 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

phaonica wrote...

Not me. 
Firstly, you don't know she's going to be splattered with his blood until after you've done it already.
Secondly, though "killing a man in front of his child" seems awful, Anora is a grown woman vying for a position as Queen. If justice must be served, she'd better be able to handle it, even (and perhaps especially) if the one she has to judge is her kin. She'd be there for the execution anyway, and in the playthrough where I executed Loghain, she spoke *against* him. She knew what she was getting into when she made that decision.

I agree with this. While I really don't like the way the execution goes, Anora should be mature enough to handle it. She is, considering how well she retains her composure through the whole ordeal. I especially like it when you ask her if she's planning to avenge him and she says, "he accepted his fate and so will I".

And like phaonica mentioned, if Anora speaks out against Loghain at the Landsmeet, she very well knows what's in store for him.

[CalJones]

I don't know that you can ever be "mature" enough to handle being splattered in your father's blood. It's a horrible thing to do, whichever way you cut it (no pun intended). But, you're right in so far as she does throw him under the bus and so she should be prepared to accept the consequences.

Much as that cutscene does horrify me, I tend to spare Loghain for his sake rather than hers.

[Zjarcal]

Well, yeah, that might not have been the best way to word that out. What I meant was that Anora being Anora, she should be able to live through the experience and not let it drag her down too much. Of course, it's such a horrific experience that she will be somewhat scarred for life, but not to the point where it will ruin her. That's really what I meant by the "mature" comment.



But just like you, I don't spare Loghain for the sake of Anora not watching her father die in front of her, I spare him (in my canon playthrough) to give him a chance to redeem himself.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I kill him, because he's just too big of a risk and a douche.



I wish there were more options as to what to do with him.

[Persephone]

CalJones wrote...

I don't know that you can ever be "mature" enough to handle being splattered in your father's blood. It's a horrible thing to do, whichever way you cut it (no pun intended). But, you're right in so far as she does throw him under the bus and so she should be prepared to accept the consequences.
Much as that cutscene does horrify me, I tend to spare Loghain for his sake rather than hers.

I watched my mother die before my very eyes. Powerless. She was writhing in agony (Cancer).... I was 19. I am 29 now. Thinking about it alone is enough to make me cry. She wasn't executed. I didn't have her blood all over me. But it's haunting me to this day. For Anora it must be even more scarring, given the savagery of it all. Loghain dying in the Landsmeet Chamber reminds me of what happened on The Ides Of March.... You cannot "accept" it, "handle" it, it'll never let you go. Just look at Anora's epilogue if she rules alone, with her father dead. But back to the question: Does the method of "execution" (To me it's savage murder) influence my decision to spare him? Partly. But it isn't my main reason.

[Sabariel]

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

[Persephone]

Sabariel wrote...

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

Then you must condemn some of the greatest men and women in history who are revered to this day. Alexander the Great, Caesar, medieval kings and queens.... American presidents.

[Sabariel]

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

Then you must condemn some of the greatest men and women in history who are revered to this day. Alexander the Great, Caesar, medieval kings and queens.... American presidents.

Yeup. No problem there

[Persephone]

Sabariel wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

Then you must condemn some of the greatest men and women in history who are revered to this day. Alexander the Great, Caesar, medieval kings and queens.... American presidents.

Yeup. No problem there

Never become a historian. Looking at Ancient/Medieval times & people through modern eyes just doesn't cut it.

[Sabariel]

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

Then you must condemn some of the greatest men and women in history who are revered to this day. Alexander the Great, Caesar, medieval kings and queens.... American presidents.

Yeup. No problem there

Never become a historian. Looking at Ancient/Medieval times & people through modern eyes just doesn't cut it.

I was kidding

But in all seriousness, Loghain did too many horrible things for all the wrong reasons and in the name of paranoia for me to ever stomach sparing him (again).

Edit: Though perhaps if I could force him to become an Orlesian mime, chain him to the street, and have the children he sold into slavery pelt him with rotten tomatoes maybe then... I would spare him (again). Maybe.

Modifié par Sabariel, 23 septembre 2010 - 10:48 .

[Persephone]

Sabariel wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

Then you must condemn some of the greatest men and women in history who are revered to this day. Alexander the Great, Caesar, medieval kings and queens.... American presidents.

Yeup. No problem there

Never become a historian. Looking at Ancient/Medieval times & people through modern eyes just doesn't cut it.

I was kidding

But in all seriousness, Loghain did too many horrible things for all the wrong reasons and in the name of paranoia for me to ever stomach sparing him (again).

Edit: Though perhaps if I could force him to become an Orlesian mime, chain him to the street, and have the children he sold into slavery pelt him with rotten tomatoes maybe then... I would spare him (again). Maybe.

You have a way more sadistic mind than Loghain himself.

[Persephone]

MariSkep wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

Then you must condemn some of the greatest men and women in history who are revered to this day. Alexander the Great, Caesar, medieval kings and queens.... American presidents.

Why not? I can respect and recognize someone's accomplishments and still call them out on all their failings.

Because that is not how history/historians work. Different times, different cultures etc. You CANNOT judge a medieval king based on 2010 morals and expectations.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

Because that is not how history/historians work. Different times, different cultures etc. You CANNOT judge a medieval king based on 2010 morals and expectations.

Of course, based on Ferelden morals at the time of the 5th blight, slavery is very much wrong.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 septembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[Persephone]

MariSkep wrote...

Persephone wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Recruited him once. Never again. The man sold elven children into slavery. Unforgivable in my book

Then you must condemn some of the greatest men and women in history who are revered to this day. Alexander the Great, Caesar, medieval kings and queens.... American presidents.

Why not? I can respect and recognize someone's accomplishments and still call them out on all their failings.

Because that is not how history/historians work. Different times, different cultures etc. You CANNOT judge a medieval king based on 2010 morals and expectations.

Sure I can. It's not impacting how accurately I represent his position, accomplishments, goals ect so what's it matter?

Like I said. History and historians do not work that way. Every historian worth his/her salt knows this.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Because that is not how history/historians work. Different times, different cultures etc. You CANNOT judge a medieval king based on 2010 morals and expectations.

Of course, based on Ferelden morals at the time of the 5th blight, slavery is very much wrong.

Not wrong enough. Makes him lose only one point so to speak. He can still win at the landmseet regardless.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Because that is not how history/historians work. Different times, different cultures etc. You CANNOT judge a medieval king based on 2010 morals and expectations.

Of course, based on Ferelden morals at the time of the 5th blight, slavery is very much wrong.

Not wrong enough. Makes him lose only one point so to speak. He can still win at the landmseet regardless.

Especially if the Warden mentions that it's ELVES being sold rather than Fereldan Cititzens.

[Wulfram]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Because that is not how history/historians work. Different times, different cultures etc. You CANNOT judge a medieval king based on 2010 morals and expectations.

Of course, based on Ferelden morals at the time of the 5th blight, slavery is very much wrong.

Not wrong enough. Makes him lose only one point so to speak. He can still win at the landmseet regardless.

Well, the people at the Landsmeet are Shem nobles.  Bastards

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
Especially if the Warden mentions that it's ELVES being sold rather than Fereldan Cititzens.

Indeed, the difference of reaction is very telling.

If you tell them Loghain is selling Ferelden citizens, they are like "What?! Selling Ferelden citizens?!".
If you tell them he is selling elves, they are like "Oh? Care to explain yourself".

[Elhanan]

As I recall, the guillotine was invented to make such executions more humane. One clean stroke is as merciful as Loghain could expect, as he himself mentions. The Warden administers such justice and mercy a few times in the mod; this act is only different because the daughter is standing there.

Does Loghain merit death? I believe so, and I take this route several times as judgement is placed into the hands of the player. But I also have pardoned him a couple of times, so as Warden I may show him personally the depth of his crimes, and allow him to consider his future path.

In one case, I gave him the Dusk and Dawn rings; gaining the latter bauble on our last visit thru the Alienage in the battle of Denerim. In my thoughts, his final acts of contrition were honest ones, and his final choices were ones made on intense reflection.

[Ferretinabun]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Especially if the Warden mentions that it's ELVES being sold rather than Fereldan Cititzens.

Indeed, the difference of reaction is very telling.

If you tell them Loghain is selling Ferelden citizens, they are like "What?! Selling Ferelden citizens?!".
If you tell them he is selling elves, they are like "Oh? Care to explain yourself".

Oooh, I didn't realise there were two options there.

Personally I usually execute him because my characters have never really seen a good side to him. He is called a hero and great general, but the only time we see him in battle himself he quits the field. He comes across as little more than a tyrant from the perspective of most wardens (a HN might, I suppose, have been raised on tales of his battles).

That said I will spare him a couple of times to see how it plays out, and I'm looking forward to doing so.

If nothing else it annoys me how anyone could possibly cut his head off when he's got those massive shoulder plates on. Seriously, you shouldn't be able to give him more than a haircut!

[Persephone]

Elhanan wrote...

As I recall, the guillotine was invented to make such executions more humane. One clean stroke is as merciful as Loghain could expect, as he himself mentions. The Warden administers such justice and mercy a few times in the mod; this act is only different because the daughter is standing there.
Does Loghain merit death? I believe so, and I take this route several times as judgement is placed into the hands of the player. But I also have pardoned him a couple of times, so as Warden I may show him personally the depth of his crimes, and allow him to consider his future path.
In one case, I gave him the Dusk and Dawn rings; gaining the latter bauble on our last visit thru the Alienage in the battle of Denerim. In my thoughts, his final acts of contrition were honest ones, and his final choices were ones made on intense reflection.

The Warden administers such justice and MERCY a few times? Really? If this is MERCY, I'd hate to see.....well......GOD, I simply cannot understand such a butchery.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Oooh, I didn't realise there were two options there.

It depends on the timing I believe. Whether you use that as your first argument, or second.