223 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I'd pass laws allowing equal opportunity for the elves, but that's it. In my society, status as a citizen would be something earned. Thus, the elves would be given the opportunity, but if they chose to behave like hood rats and do nothing useful, and not contribute to the progress of society, then they would fare no better. If they chose to continually isolate themselves, well, their problem. The opportunity is there to be taken, not handed to them on a silver platter.



I'd allow the elves the opportunity to help themselves, but I'd still bring the smack down if they started demanding something for nothing.

[CalJones]

I'd burn them all, the filthy knife ears!

OK I kid, I kid. Equal opportunities, exactly as Skadi says. That's my belief in the real world, and it so it would be in Thedas. I do not believe in positive discrimination - just that everyone gets the same opportunity to work or live as they wish.

[Bruddajakka]

Don't know if I'd bother. From what we see about the Elves except for a very vocal minority most of them seem pretty content. Probably pass a law to make it equally to treat them as Vaughn was, and let them have the same legal rights as a human but that's about it.

[Addai]

You can't bring about a societal change like "rescuing" the alienage overnight. Elves already have equal citizenship, so the responses about giving them equality are kind of redundant (in the LM you bring up Loghain selling "Fereldan citizens" into slavery). I think smaller gestures would go a long way because it's people's fear of elves and inability to see them as being persons that drives a lot of the oppression. Something like Alistair making an elf one of his councilors, or the Hero of Ferelden being an elf, can help here, though it would not be an immediate change.

I also imagine my Cousland consort bringing them back into military service as scouts and light infantry, and my elven chancellor who's more bookish opening schools. Also, since she's an Andrastian, she would try to get the Chantry to be more involved in charitable works and religious organization in the alienage which can help give people a sense of initiative.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 septembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[Befit]

Do you guys actually expect that just cuz you gave them equal rights that they are now truly equal in human eyes? The general population will still discriminate in various ways and do you expect the guard to believe what a knife ear tells them over a human? I say give land to the dalish and encourage the city elves to join thier brethren in true equality.

Modifié par Befit, 10 septembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Bruddajakka]

I'm pretty sure the Elves can already serve in the Military. Just most of them don't because it's uncomfortable for them.

[Addai]

Bruddajakka wrote...

I'm pretty sure the Elves can already serve in the Military. Just most of them don't because it's uncomfortable for them.

They serve in menial capacity, but aren't allowed to bear arms.  "An elf with a sword will die upon it."

[Befit]

Bruddajakka wrote...

I'm pretty sure the Elves can already serve in the Military. Just most of them don't because it's uncomfortable for them.

An elf that knows how to fight is an elf that can rebel

[NugWrangler]

I would give out micro loans to elves wishing to start their own businesses outside the alienage and allow them to rent and own property within the city. I would also create universities open to all Fereldan citizens including elves and allow elves to join the Fereldan military and Templar order. Basically I would create the opportunity for them to better themselves, but it would be up to them to take advantage of it.

[Bruddajakka]

Honestly I'd probably just copy what Bhelen is doing with the Casteless in Orzammer.

[mousestalker]

Bruddajakka wrote...

I'm pretty sure the Elves can already serve in the Military. Just most of them don't because it's uncomfortable for them.

No. No they can not. Ser Jory has something to say about that at Ostagar to an elven Warden recruit.

The changes I'd make would be minor but profound. I'd let elves buy and sell property. I'd open up some of the trades to them. Denerim has guilds. Forcing the guilds to admit elves would likely cause massive unrest and a loss of tax revenue. If there is a Bann of the Alienage, then the Bann would have to have elven soldiers to keep the peace.

Other than that, just gradually equalize the civil rights of elves and humans. And not use purging the Alienage as a way to relieve societal discontent.

[Addai]

Befit wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

I'm pretty sure the Elves can already serve in the Military. Just most of them don't because it's uncomfortable for them.

An elf that knows how to fight is an elf that can rebel

So do unruly bannorn.  That's what my Queen Cousland will tell them to shut them up.    Besides the fact that elves played a role in both the rebellion and in ending the Blight, so they deserve the chance to serve in that capacity if they want to.

I guess it's like the casteless in Orzammar- it's not glamorous for them to serve in the Legion of the Dead, but they can earn respect through it, both self-respect and eventually grudging respect from other dwarves.

[Bruddajakka]

And I honestly think I already did enough for them by killing Vaughn. Now I mostly did it because he was too damn stupid to be left alive. But they don't know that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Recruit them as very cheap manual labour that is required in a period of reform and growth. Through their hard work, they can recieve more and more rights and humans wouldn't mind as much as the elves are earning those rights and humans are making use of them (they can also serve as a potential market opportunity if their standart of living improves). Whether they become really equal is another thing and that will probably take centuries to happen.

[Befit]

Addai67 wrote...

Befit wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

I'm pretty sure the Elves can already serve in the Military. Just most of them don't because it's uncomfortable for them.

An elf that knows how to fight is an elf that can rebel

So do unruly bannorn.  That's what my Queen Cousland will tell them to shut them up.    Besides the fact that elves played a role in both the rebellion and in ending the Blight, so they deserve the chance to serve in that capacity if they want to.

I guess it's like the casteless in Orzammar- it's not glamorous for them to serve in the Legion of the Dead, but they can earn respect through it, both self-respect and eventually grudging respect from other dwarves.

True, but I still don't trust the humans to treat the elves like equals. My city elf would rather all his city people to join the dalish so they could become thier own people and not just the humans pet social project

[RavenousBear]

If I was the ruler, my ultimate goal would be for both races to live peacefully as equals with little violence as possible. It would be a daunting task with the bad blood between the two groups, but it I think it is worth a shot. Despite my desire to have the situation resolved ASAP, granting so many rights that the elves deserve all at once would cause the extremist racist humans (whom are a minority, but seem to be vocal) to protest and cause violence. I will have to take baby steps.

My first step would be to clean up the mess from the Purge since animal corpses, blood, damaged buildings, and other deplorable conditions remain. If the extremists have a problem with that, they will have to suck it up or else get thrown in jail if they react with violence.  Then I would improve the food and water supplies since I highly doubt the water they drink is sanitary and the food to be very nutritous. Next step would be to improve the sanitation system if they have one in the Alienage. Basically, my first steps are to improve their conditions within the Alienage before overturning racist laws made by previous rulers of Denerim.

From then, I would slowly expand their rights. I rather have a few minor outbreaks of violence rather than an immediate riot which would most likely result in the burning of the Alienage. Otherwise I would make my changes right away if I could.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Recruit them as very cheap manual labour that is required in a period of reform and growth. Through their hard work, they can recieve more and more rights and humans wouldn't mind as much as the elves are earning those rights and humans are making use of them (they can also serve as a potential market opportunity if their standart of living improves). Whether they become really equal is another thing and that will probably take centuries to happen.

Exactly. prejudices take generations to overcome. The elves working towards their own improvement, and when humans see them working hard, they will look more favorably upon them. The general perception of elves is that they are lazy and shiftless, and to useless for anything beyond menial, lowly labor and service. If the elves themselves have the opportunity to prove them wrong AND take it, and make the most of it, they can elevate themselves as equals.

[Wulfram]

Offer them opportunities to rise in royal service.  Ensure that Crown law applies in the alienage

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Recruit them as very cheap manual labour that is required in a period of reform and growth. Through their hard work, they can recieve more and more rights and humans wouldn't mind as much as the elves are earning those rights and humans are making use of them (they can also serve as a potential market opportunity if their standart of living improves). Whether they become really equal is another thing and that will probably take centuries to happen.

They're already cheap manual labour.  Humans grant them nothing for it, and resent that they have as much as they do.

True, but I still don't trust the humans to treat the elves like equals.
My city elf would rather all his city people to join the dalish so they
could become thier own people and not just the humans pet social
project

My City Elf would rather see his people's culture survive under human rule, than have it destroyed by the dalish.

Modifié par Wulfram, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wulfram wrote...
They're already cheap manual labour.  Humans grant them nothing for it, and resent that they have as much as they do.

In an environement of growth and development, new opportunities arise and cheap labour is required more so. So yes, except now they have more use and are enlisted in state driven projects. And they won't get a salary as much as humans. That would take time. 

[DragonRacer13]

mousestalker wrote...
And not use purging the Alienage as a way to relieve societal discontent.

Asking you since I've seen from posts around here that you are quite the librarian on city elves (meant as a compliment, mind you  )... but what, exactly, is involved in a purging? It's brought up in the game several times, but what happens? Guards go in with riot gear, so to speak, and try to subdue them (leading to injuries/more violence/elves thrown in dungeons/etc.)? Random houses set on fire? Random elves cut down and made examples of? "Purging" just sounds so terrible... like "ethnic cleansing"... but surely it's not as extreme as that, right?

[mousestalker]

DragonRacer13 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...
And not use purging the Alienage as a way to relieve societal discontent.

Asking you since I've seen from posts around here that you are quite the librarian on city elves (meant as a compliment, mind you  )... but what, exactly, is involved in a purging? It's brought up in the game several times, but what happens? Guards go in with riot gear, so to speak, and try to subdue them (leading to injuries/more violence/elves thrown in dungeons/etc.)? Random houses set on fire? Random elves cut down and made examples of? "Purging" just sounds so terrible... like "ethnic cleansing"... but surely it's not as extreme as that, right?

It's never said. We know that the orphanage was stormed from what Ser Otto says. Slaughtering orphans is about as low an act as one can imagine so it follows that the rest of it was pretty ugly as well.

Using medieval analogs (European and other) a purge could either consist of a mob led by the soldiery (Russia did this a lot) or by letting the mob run amok without official interference (all the police are at the donut shop while the ghetto burns). It sounds from what Howe says that the purge during the Blight included soldiers.

The game leaves a lot to the player's imagination. That's a good thing.

[Giggles_Manically]

Build a Walmart.

That is in the alienage, and only employed elves.

[DragonRacer13]

mousestalker wrote...

DragonRacer13 wrote...

mousestalker wrote...
And not use purging the Alienage as a way to relieve societal discontent.

Asking you since I've seen from posts around here that you are quite the librarian on city elves (meant as a compliment, mind you  )... but what, exactly, is involved in a purging? It's brought up in the game several times, but what happens? Guards go in with riot gear, so to speak, and try to subdue them (leading to injuries/more violence/elves thrown in dungeons/etc.)? Random houses set on fire? Random elves cut down and made examples of? "Purging" just sounds so terrible... like "ethnic cleansing"... but surely it's not as extreme as that, right?

It's never said. We know that the orphanage was stormed from what Ser Otto says. Slaughtering orphans is about as low an act as one can imagine so it follows that the rest of it was pretty ugly as well.

Using medieval analogs (European and other) a purge could either consist of a mob led by the soldiery (Russia did this a lot) or by letting the mob run amok without official interference (all the police are at the donut shop while the ghetto burns). It sounds from what Howe says that the purge during the Blight included soldiers.

The game leaves a lot to the player's imagination. That's a good thing.

Okay, I thought it was left vague. Wanted to be sure I hadn't missed something (I'm working on a fic with a CEF and am so paranoid of having missed something important regarding the Alienage).

The medieval description you gave makes me think of the opening of the old animated movie "An American Tail", with Feivel the mouse and his family's home/neighborhood getting ransacked by Russian cat cossacks. Kind of random, but it's honestly the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of Alienage purging.