223 réponses à ce sujet

[BroBear Berbil]

City Elves are acclimated to Human life. Like Pol says, most of them probably wouldn't want to go run off in the forest. It is their culture now.



I'm not sure what the property and business laws are like regarding elves but if they are restrictive I would loosen those restrictions. Beyond that I wouldn't do much specifically for elves. Maybe I'd allow for all elven military units and see how that works out.



I wouldn't try to beautify their slums for them or grant them swathes of my kingdom they could dominate, that's for sure.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Reika wrote...

Befit wrote...

I also believe elves have a more socialist mind set. They always seem to take care of each other and treat all elves as equals. This is also why I believe the city elves should join the dalish, there is a conflict of culture between elves and humans that can only be solved by seperation. The city elves discovering their past with the dalish may help them gain a fighting spirit to help their people.

I dunno, considering how condescending the Dalish were to my city elf warden, seriously they treated my human noble with more courtesy, I'm not so sure joining the Dalish would be any better for the ones born in the Alienage.

This is where being King/Queen you'd have to encourage the elders of the Alienage and the Keepers of the Dalish to come together for the greater good of their people as a whole to work together and learn from each other.  The Dalish have a leg up in the survival department from the city dwelling elves.  I see Lanya being able to do this.  I really liked her as a character.  She tells you she once came from the city so who better to help than her to bridge that gap. 

I think they should be encouraged to interact with each other (i.e. Alienage and Dalish). 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:44 .

[Herr Uhl]

Befit wrote...

I also believe elves have a more socialist mind set. They always seem to take care of each other and treat all elves as equals. This is also why I believe the city elves should join the dalish, there is a conflict of culture between elves and humans that can only be solved by seperation. The city elves discovering their past with the dalish may help them gain a fighting spirit to help their people.

Yeah, treating people like equals is bad!

The reason that they have this "socialist" mind set is because they have had precious little to gain since the dales fell. It can be solved by time, I don't see why they'd need to run off with the Dalish, that would only separate the cultures more.

[Herr Uhl]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Why couldn't elves be as smart or as skilled as humans are? The problem here is not that elves are stupid, unskilled, or lazy. The problem is the racism that makes humans see elves this way. And the posters in this thread that think that elves are inherently stupid and lazy because of their race (there have been a few posts on here saying that), then do you feel the same way about any certain race in real life?

The lack of education available makes the current generation of elves just that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

If you're referring to my comment dream operator, it was said half jokingly.

[Herr Uhl]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

dream_operator23 wrote...

Why couldn't elves be as smart or as skilled as humans are? The problem here is not that elves are stupid, unskilled, or lazy.

The lack of education available makes the current generation of elves just that.

First of all there is a difference between being uneducated and being stupid.  

I meant skill in the sense of artisan and stupid in the sense of scholarly pursuits. Second languager, but that was what I meant.

[Befit]

Herr Uhl wrote...

dream_operator23 wrote...

Why couldn't elves be as smart or as skilled as humans are? The problem here is not that elves are stupid, unskilled, or lazy. The problem is the racism that makes humans see elves this way. And the posters in this thread that think that elves are inherently stupid and lazy because of their race (there have been a few posts on here saying that), then do you feel the same way about any certain race in real life?

The lack of education available makes the current generation of elves just that.

Dude, socialism isn't bad. It's just the government uses it as a derogatory term to make others seem un-patriotic.

[Costin_Razvan]

I was under the belief the Dalish hold the City Elves in a very low regard? Maybe I am wrong, but if I am right then my decision would be simple: Sell them all under the greatest of secrecy into slavery.

Part of my reasoning is for the high amount of cash this would generate, but also that I want to work on improving the relationship between Dalish and Humans of Fereldan ( hence the secrecy of the slavery, and if Loghain could keep it from Anora then I should be able as well from all but my trusted people and the slavers ). Now obviously with Lanaya things do improve, but Humans see little difference between Dalish and City Elf...and a great deal of city elves are beggars, thieves, prostitutes. Now regardless of how well the Dalish would act, the fact of how the City Elves are would always remain a problem between Human and Dalish relations. A rather large one.

Now yes, I could give them a fair chance in life, but as Knight points even like this it would centuries for things to really improve and also giving them a fair chance would also ****** off many humans in the short term.

While City Elves are not stupid, the fact remains that it would take at least one more generation for them to get them educated ( assuming that I as a leader would make sure this happens ), so until then a great would still remain largely uneducated...

There would be the option to deport them all to Ostagar....but that would not work well even IF the Dalish do not hold the CEs in a low regard, because no one likes having some many people thrown into their lap, and it make a large dent in my reputation with the DEs ( though if they find out about the slavery, that would also create a large dent....but I am certain I can keep it secret ).

I know it's ruthless to suggest slavery, but there is a high chance that if I try to integrate them better with humans then things could blow up in my face, or that it would take a long time for it work.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:02 .

[Wulfram]

Given their willpower, Elves should be less lazy than humans I'd have thought. Weaker, less tough and clumsier though.



The city elves are hated by everyone. That means that if the crown offers them a chance, they will be loyal to it and no one else. So offer them that chance, and use it to destroy the power of the nobility. With it's current constitution, Ferelden is going to end up like 18th century Poland.

[KnightofPhoenix]

dream_operator23 wrote...
There are posts saying that the elves need to rise up and do for themselves, and yet what these posts are all ignoring is that doing that very thing is close to impossible in a society as racist as Ferelden is.  We see it in the real world all the time.  A certain race is considered to be stupid or lazy because of the poverty and squalor they live in when the problem is not that any one race is inherently these things just by virtue of their race, but that they are being held back as a whole by rampant, unchecked racism.

Hence why they have to be cheap labour, otherwise no human would think of employing them under present conditions.
And yes the fate of the elves is largely in their own hands. That doesn't mean they do it alone.

State driven projects can enlist as many as possible, but it will be up for them to know how to use the money they are being offered throughout the generations. The state won't do that for them. It will be up for the elves to shake away defeatism and work as hard as possible. No minority had it easy in the real world and yet many were succesful.   

All that will require time and a lot of effort from the elves themselves. No one is going to do it for them.
Of course educating humans to be less prejudiced is also necessary, but that will also require time and for the elves to prove that they are indeed valuable.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:07 .

[Befit]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I was under the belief the Dalish hold the City Elves in a very low regard? Maybe I am wrong, but if I am right then my decision would be simple: Sell them all under the greatest of secrecy into slavery.

Part of my reasoning is for the high amount of cash this would generate, but also that I want to work on improving the relationship between Dalish and Humans of Fereldan ( hence the secrecy of the slavery, and if Loghain could keep it from Anora then I should be able as well from all but my trusted people and the slavers ). Now obviously with Lanaya things do improve, but Humans see little difference between Dalish and City Elf...and a great deal of city elves are beggars, thieves, prostitutes. Now regardless of how well the Dalish would act, the fact of how the City Elves are would always remain a problem between Human and Dalish relations. A rather large one.

Now yes, I could give them a fair chance in life, but as Knight points even like this it would centuries for things to really improve and also giving them a fair chance would also ****** off many humans in the short term.

While City Elves are not stupid, the fact remains that it would take at least one more generation for them to get them educated ( assuming that I as a leader would make sure this happens ), so until then a great would still remain largely uneducated...

There would be the option to deport them all to Ostagar....but that would not work well even IF the Dalish do not hold the CEs in a low regard, because no one likes having some many people thrown into their lap, and it make a large dent in my reputation with the DEs ( though if they find out about the slavery, that would also create a large dent....but I am certain I can keep it secret ).

I know it's ruthless to suggest slavery, but there is a high chance that if I try to integrate them better with humans then things could blow up in my face, or that it would take a long time for it work.

Except the Dalish always accept the CE's that leave to seek them out. I believe that the Dalish don't like the elves that choose to live under oppression rather then leave and join them. If you've played the dalish elf origin you meet an elf that came from the city and no one treated him unfairly

[The Almighty Ali]

*Looks at his Dragon Age character picture*



Why I'd give the Elves all the rights and cram the high and mighty shems into an alienage instead.



=D

[Sarah1281]

Except the Dalish always accept the CE's that leave to seek them out. I believe that the Dalish don't like the elves that choose to live under oppression rather then leave and join them. If you've played the dalish elf origin you meet an elf that came from the city and no one treated him unfairly

They eventually do once the CE proves themself to them. In the DE origin, the Dalish seem to be belittling the CE that left to seek them out. They feel that they are better than the CE and were acting like it.

[Costin_Razvan]

Befit: Thanks for the info, forgot most of the DE Origin story ( though I do have a DE ). Doesn't change much for me.



Just so I am clear. For me it's either work to integrate the City Elves with the humans, and result in a slower progress between human and Dalish relations and a cheap labor force for me to use OR sell elves in slavery and get cash to rebuild Fereldan ( desperately needed ) and if done right in secrecy then Dalish and Human relations would improve at a much faster rate due to the removal of the City Elven thieves and beggars.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Except the Dalish always accept the CE's that leave to seek them out. I believe that the Dalish don't like the elves that choose to live under oppression rather then leave and join them. If you've played the dalish elf origin you meet an elf that came from the city and no one treated him unfairly

They eventually do once the CE proves themself to them. In the DE origin, the Dalish seem to be belittling the CE that left to seek them out. They feel that they are better than the CE and were acting like it.

They're Dalish. Unless you've bred with your cousins for 5 generations you're not as good.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Befit wrote...
Except the Dalish always accept the CE's that leave to seek them out. I believe that the Dalish don't like the elves that choose to live under oppression rather then leave and join them. If you've played the dalish elf origin you meet an elf that came from the city and no one treated him unfairly

Question is, would they accept hundreds or thousands coming to them in the same day?
Do they have the economy to sustain such numbers?

I don't think the Dalish can manage to welcome thousands of refugees.
And the land they get at Ostagar, near the kocari wilds, doesn't seem to be arable enough to sustain too much population influx. And is too small anyways.  

[Costin_Razvan]

I would think the City Elf population would number in the hundreds of thousands....so yeah definitely not sustainable for them.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Befit wrote...
Except the Dalish always accept the CE's that leave to seek them out. I believe that the Dalish don't like the elves that choose to live under oppression rather then leave and join them. If you've played the dalish elf origin you meet an elf that came from the city and no one treated him unfairly

Question is, would they accept hundreds or thousands coming to them in the same day?
Do they have the economy to sustain such numbers?

I don't think the Dalish can manage to welcome thousands of refugees.
And the land they get at Ostagar, near the kocari wilds, doesn't seem to be arable enough to sustain too much population influx. And is too small anyways.  

Unless they start conquering the Chasind lands.

[Befit]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Except the Dalish always accept the CE's that leave to seek them out. I believe that the Dalish don't like the elves that choose to live under oppression rather then leave and join them. If you've played the dalish elf origin you meet an elf that came from the city and no one treated him unfairly

They eventually do once the CE proves themself to them. In the DE origin, the Dalish seem to be belittling the CE that left to seek them out. They feel that they are better than the CE and were acting like it.

Belittling? that striked me more as training, which sucks for the instructer. Ever tried to teach an adult things that a kid can do? (I mean dalish kids)

[Herr Uhl]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I would think the City Elf population would number in the hundreds of thousands....so yeah definitely not sustainable for them.

I don't think Ferelden has much more than a couple of hundred thousand people.

[Costin_Razvan]

Unless they start conquering the Chasind lands.

That would go SO well for human/Dalish relations!

I don't think Ferelden has much more than a couple of hundred thousand people.

This is a rather wrong assumption that many people make based on the numbers we see in Battles.

Ancient Rome ( as in Italy back when Rome controlled before it became an Empire ) had a population of around 6 million.

Medieval Europe reached a population of around 60 million at it's peak, and with mages who can heal wounds I would argue that the life expectancy in Thedas would be higher.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Unless they start conquering the Chasind lands.

Are they strong enough to do so?
If they are, then by all means, Ferelden wouldn't have to worry about chasinds at the borders. Well unless the Dalish become too powerful, that is.

EDIT: actually no, Ferelden needs Ash Warriors whom I think are chasinds.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 septembre 2010 - 11:22 .

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
Unless they start conquering the Chasind lands.

Are they strong enough to do so?
If they are, then by all means, Ferelden wouldn't have to worry about chasinds at the borders. Well unless the Dalish become too powerful, that is.

If they gain the numbers of all the city elves and give them at least the basics of militia training, I'd wager so.