223 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm debating whether my male-Cousland is cold-blooded enough (or just distanced enough) to think that a mix of elven mobility reforms (allowing them to leave the alienage), land reforms (to settle unoccupied lands), encouraging elf-human marriages (tax breaks?), and military/labor reform, while rounded off by banning (or at least not permitting) elf-elf marriages as a gradual solution. No one is sold into slavery, the actual freedom and mobilities are increased, while the overall eleven population takes a nose-dive due to mixed marriages become the only legal sort. That won't stop elves from fooling around on the side, but the institutional weight is against it. Eventually, the elven population just stops producing more elves.

[Befit]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Befit wrote...
I agree with that, I have to say you make the most sense from what I've seen put up here. However, I also see the inclusion of a chanrty in the dalish state in order for Fereldan to stay in the good graces of the chantry of Orlais.

Thank you

A Chantry in Dalish lands might be seen as extremily insulting for the Dalish though. It's not like in Orzammar, because dwarves don't have bad blood with humans. But the elves were enslaved by the Chantry.
 
Finding a way to mediate between them and the Chantry will be necessary, I agree. And that will be extremily difficult. We know from Awakening that the Temaplrs are trying to find ways to combat Dalish magic. They are very mistrustful towards them and rightfully so (considering what Zathrian did). The Dalish too are righfully mistrustful of the Chantry. 

So while Ferelden might be able to mediate between the two, there may come a time when it will be forced to pick one side over the other. In which case, I pick the Chantry's side; even if I am not fond of them.

Perhaps the Chantry can be persuaded to allow Ferelden do the surveillance on the Dalish. While persuade the Dalish to give us even more trade concessions and allow missionaries to come in if we turn a blind eye to some things. 
But I don't see that settlement lasting for long.

True, to be completely fair this settlement is just built on hopes and dreams lol. But DA2 is apparently gonna bring about huge change so who knows what might happend.

[maxernst]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What? Bigger than any medieval European city except Constantinople and maybe Cordoba? Paris had less than a hundred thousand, London was smaller still. I don't see Ferelden as a dominantly urbanized culture--that takes a very sophisticated trade network like the Roman Empire had.

They do have the imperial highway though. Seems to be the main trade route in Fereldan ( and actually all of Thedas ).

My reasoning for the high population in cities is based upon the fact that until 200 years ago Fereldan was made up of City States ( Teryns ) that waged constant war among one another, which would mean a higher concentration of people in cities for protection.

But even if you use medieval Italy as your frame of reference, the cities weren't all that big.  The estimates I've seen are about 100-150K for Venice, 60K for Florence.  Siena, which was a pretty important state at its peak, is thought to have had only about 13,000 people.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

My reasoning for the high population in cities is based upon the fact that until 200 years ago Fereldan was made up of City States ( Teryns ) that waged constant war among one another, which would mean a higher
concentration of people in cities for protection.

I don't think of Ternirs as city-states, but as a consortium of banns swearing fealty to a Teyrn. The Free Marches however are made up of City States and hence Gaider saying that Kirwall is bigger than Denerim.

It is experiencing a population boom however:
"The city that has sprung up around it has almost been carved out of the side of the mountain it rests on, and during the Dragon Age, its population has grown beyond the city's ability to cope." (taken from the codex entry)

Which is bad if there is no infrastructure to sustain that growth. More reason to pick Anora.  

[Viva la France]

If I was ruling, I think allowing the Elves to fight for more freedoms would be good.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

My reasoning for the high population in cities is based upon the fact that until 200 years ago Fereldan was made up of City States ( Teryns ) that waged constant war among one another, which would mean a higher
concentration of people in cities for protection.

I don't think of Ternirs as city-states, but as a consortium of banns swearing fealty to a Teyrn. The Free Marches however are made up of City States and hence Gaider saying that Kirwall is bigger than Denerim.

It is experiencing a population boom however:
"The city that has sprung up around it has almost been carved out of the side of the mountain it rests on, and during the Dragon Age, its population has grown beyond the city's ability to cope." (taken from the codex entry)

Which is bad if there is no infrastructure to sustain that growth. More reason to pick Anora.  

Like Anora didn't know her father and Howe were selling elves as slaves.    Strange all of that happened after Cailan died.

I don't know about the rest of you; but, I'd hate to breed them out or sell them into slavery....lose my ready made army of elven archers in case my country is invaded since everyone knows in Thedas we just went through a blight.    Total insanity there.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 11 septembre 2010 - 12:45 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Actually she didn't, she only knew of unrest in the alienage. But I don't understand, is your post directed at me Elvalia? Because I didn't argue for enslaving them or breeding them out.

[Addai]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

First off I would level the alienage and rebuild it for better living conditions. The area around the tree used for a community garden and for them to grew fresh produce to sell to others.

This kind of thing always sounds better in theory than it ends up being in practice.  Besides being oppressive.  Level people's homes?  They are not going to take kindly to that, even if you're going to come in and build nice new modern ones.  It doesn't change any of the underlying problems.  See:  Projects in inner-city USA, council housing in Britian.  "Garden cities" movements fail if they are not done on a micro level, from the initiative of neighbors helping neighbors and individuals bettering their own front doorstep.

 I would also encourage them to set up shops in the market district and increase trade with humans and dwarves for various wares. The elves seem really good with herbal remedies and can open shops for this along with their own crafts of armours and equipment.

Yeah, apparently they aren't legally allowed to trade, either, since Alarith tries to hush the fact that he has a store even in the alienage.  Guess that's like the casteless dwarves, too.

The alienage has to be leveled anyway because of the damage from the riots before the landsmeet and during the battle of Denerim.  Even Loghain said it was totally destroyed.  Thus, it has to be totally rebuilt.  I would also encourage rebuilding of the Alienage with stone instead of wood structures.  I'd use casteless dwarves for this as well as masons of Denerim, everyone has a job then in the rebuilding.

True, for Denerim's alienage at least.  We don't really know anything about Highever's.  Would have been nice in that DLC I kept thinking we might get every time I told Alistair "maybe I'll go to Highever with you when you go." 

With the leveling, ground for intown gardens, since my country is a land of blighted land, the elves have an opportunity to become very rich farmers.  If I killed Vaughn, then I'd level the Arl of Denerim's estate and give them this land too, have two Alienages; one near the market district and one in the south.   

The Blight does give opportunity for all sorts of entrepreneurship.  Sort of like the Black Death in Europe.  I do like your idea about ceding the arl's estate to public lands.  Does Denerim really need an arl?  It could be a monarchical city, maybe with a Lord Mayor who's a little less exalted in his opinion of himself.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I get the impression that a lot of Ferelden is uncultivated.  They don't seem to have a space problem.

I get the impression that it can barely be cultivated, due to its climate.
They have no space problem but every land is own by a freeholder. Elves can't own land in these condition unless they become rich enough to afford it.

Well yes, neither can human poor.  But poor farmers can work their way into property ownership in a feudal system.

They pay rent to work their land and in feudal England also paid other fees and dues to the lord just as we pay taxes, but these were nominal or oppressive depending on the labor markets.  The monarchy could control that to some extent by setting standards for what landholders were allowed to charge fees for and how much.  And enterprising serfs did rise to become smallholders, at least in English society.  They also had two-way rights to the land and could pass on their rental contracts to their heirs, etc.  So even if the first generation doesn't get up the ladder, a second or third might.

That's not serfdom. I don't think they were called serfs.
But yes, that could work. As I said, it will require each generation to work for the future.
But if the salary for the elves will be as much as humans, I'd think most would rather get a human. The only incentive I can think of is cheap salary.

Yes, they are called serfs.  At least, in literature I've got on the subject.

Whether landlords would prefer to have elves or humans on their land will depend a great deal on how much demand is there.  In an economy recovering from the Blight, it's likely to be a laborer's market and opportunities exist if the legal framework existed to allow elves to take advantage of them.

That could work too. Those it means that the Crown needs to have a strong economy to sustain such a strategy.
And for elves to prove that they can be skilled, otherwise the stipend offered would be a waste.

No one is skilled before they get training.  Again, you are veering towards a racist attitude here.  We know that even disadvantaged as they are, the Dalish are master craftsmen, more skilled than humans.  There is no reason that city elves could not likewise excel.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 septembre 2010 - 01:21 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Addai67 wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

First off I would level the alienage and rebuild it for better living conditions. The area around the tree used for a community garden and for them to grew fresh produce to sell to others.

This kind of thing always sounds better in theory than it ends up being in practice.  Besides being oppressive.  Level people's homes?  They are not going to take kindly to that, even if you're going to come in and build nice new modern ones.  It doesn't change any of the underlying problems.  See:  Projects in inner-city USA, council housing in Britian.  "Garden cities" movements fail if they are not done on a micro level, from the initiative of neighbors helping neighbors and individuals bettering their own front doorstep.

 I would also encourage them to set up shops in the market district and increase trade with humans and dwarves for various wares. The elves seem really good with herbal remedies and can open shops for this along with their own crafts of armours and equipment.

Yeah, apparently they aren't legally allowed to trade, either, since Alarith tries to hush the fact that he has a store even in the alienage.  Guess that's like the casteless dwarves, too.

The alienage has to be leveled anyway because of the damage from the riots before the landsmeet and during the battle of Denerim.  Even Loghain said it was totally destroyed.  Thus, it has to be totally rebuilt.  I would also encourage rebuilding of the Alienage with stone instead of wood structures.  I'd use casteless dwarves for this as well as masons of Denerim, everyone has a job then in the rebuilding.

True, for Denerim's alienage at least.  We don't really know anything about Highever's.  Would have been nice in that DLC I kept thinking we might get every time I told Alistair "maybe I'll go to Highever with you when you go." 

With the leveling, ground for intown gardens, since my country is a land of blighted land, the elves have an opportunity to become very rich farmers.  If I killed Vaughn, then I'd level the Arl of Denerim's estate and give them this land too, have two Alienages; one near the market district and one in the south.   

The Blight does give opportunity for all sorts of entrepreneurship.  Sort of like the Black Death in Europe.  I do like your idea about ceding the arl's estate to public lands.  Does Denerim really need an arl?  It could be a monarchical city, maybe with a Lord Mayor who's a little less exalted in his opinion of himself.

Agreed, I would have loved to seen a dlc on this with Highever as well.  So many lost oppourtunites for dlc and it's sad they are ending all of it.  I would have liked to seen an expansion on each origin story going back to their individual origins and what is said person doing to help their own people rebuild.  I think it would have been interesting. 

Also, agreed, why does Denerim itself need an Arl when the King/Queen is living in said city, doesn't make any sense.  Even if I didn't kill Vaughn, I think after his actions in the Alienage I'd have to take away his title and lands anyway as a punishment.  That would put him on equal footing with elves then.   

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 11 septembre 2010 - 01:29 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
No one is skilled before they get training.  Again, you are veering towards a racist attitude here.  We know that even disadvantaged as they are, the Dalish are master craftsmen, more skilled than humans.  There is no reason that city elves could not likewise excel.

No, I am not. I did not say that none of them are skilled or can be skilled.
I said it will depend on their skill, if they want to earn a place.
  

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Actually she didn't, she only knew of unrest in the alienage. But I don't understand, is your post directed at me Elvalia? Because I didn't argue for enslaving them or breeding them out.

No, just in general to the other posts that I read.  I'm roleplaying it that she knew.  She did offer the tip before sending the wardens to the alienage, so she knew something was up, therefore I have to disagree with you from a roleplay view.

Don't forget Anora even knew the joining of a warden could kill the warden, how did she know that?  Anora is fully in the know.  She let that slip at the landsmeet.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 11 septembre 2010 - 01:39 .

[Sarah1281]

Don't forget Anora even knew the joining of a warden could kill the warden, how did she know that? Anora is fully in the know. She let that slip at the landsmeet.

Anora knowing the Joining could kill people =/= knowing that Loghain and Howe were slaving. Plus, everyone seemed to know that in Awakening. How big of a secret was just the fact that it could be fatal be, anyway? Maybe the Joining involved killing a set number of darkspawn without resting and if you're not good enough you don't live.

[Giggles_Manically]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm debating whether my male-Cousland is cold-blooded enough (or just distanced enough) to think that a mix of elven mobility reforms (allowing them to leave the alienage), land reforms (to settle unoccupied lands), encouraging elf-human marriages (tax breaks?), and military/labor reform, while rounded off by banning (or at least not permitting) elf-elf marriages as a gradual solution. No one is sold into slavery, the actual freedom and mobilities are increased, while the overall eleven population takes a nose-dive due to mixed marriages become the only legal sort. That won't stop elves from fooling around on the side, but the institutional weight is against it. Eventually, the elven population just stops producing more elves.

That is opening a very nasty can of worms.
Giving people an incentive to do something is good, and many would take it.

Placing a giant sign that says "NO" around something does not work and will lead to a huge amout of unrest. Trying to ban inter-race or inter faith marriages is to dangerous to try. People would pack up and leave or join Dalish clans before doing that. Most elves dont like humans, most humans dont like elves. Telling the elves that you can only marry humans will lead to a very very dark situation.

The problem is more density than numbers anyway. Dilute the concentration, by doing your smaller reforms, or by creating more alienages. Its an very risky idea when you try to stop people outright from doing something like that.

[Addai]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm debating whether my male-Cousland is cold-blooded enough (or just distanced enough) to think that a mix of elven mobility reforms (allowing them to leave the alienage), land reforms (to settle unoccupied lands), encouraging elf-human marriages (tax breaks?), and military/labor reform, while rounded off by banning (or at least not permitting) elf-elf marriages as a gradual solution. No one is sold into slavery, the actual freedom and mobilities are increased, while the overall eleven population takes a nose-dive due to mixed marriages become the only legal sort. That won't stop elves from fooling around on the side, but the institutional weight is against it. Eventually, the elven population just stops producing more elves.

Have fun with your rebellion. 

[Giggles_Manically]

What addai says.
You cant honestly control people's lives to that extent.
EVERY government that tried it created an even bigger mess than the one they had before when trying to exert that much control.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 11 septembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Addai67 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm debating whether my male-Cousland is cold-blooded enough (or just distanced enough) to think that a mix of elven mobility reforms (allowing them to leave the alienage), land reforms (to settle unoccupied lands), encouraging elf-human marriages (tax breaks?), and military/labor reform, while rounded off by banning (or at least not permitting) elf-elf marriages as a gradual solution. No one is sold into slavery, the actual freedom and mobilities are increased, while the overall eleven population takes a nose-dive due to mixed marriages become the only legal sort. That won't stop elves from fooling around on the side, but the institutional weight is against it. Eventually, the elven population just stops producing more elves.

Have fun with your rebellion. 

Rebellions tend to require popular support, manpower, and money. The elves would pretty much lack all three.

Riots, sure, but a rebellion by the elves of Ferelden wouldn't work out well for those that tried.

[Dean_the_Young]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What addai says.
You cant honestly control people's lives to that extent.
EVERY government that tried it created an even bigger mess than the one they had before when trying to exert that much control.

No one's criminalizing sex, just limiting the issueing of marriage liscenses.

Which they already do.

Limiting and restricint who can marry who has been done before, and in this case it isn't a permanent institution.

[Addai]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What addai says.
You cant honestly control people's lives to that extent.
EVERY government that tried it created an even bigger mess than the one they had before when trying to exert that much control.

No one's criminalizing sex, just limiting the issueing of marriage liscenses.

Which they already do.

Limiting and restricint who can marry who has been done before, and in this case it isn't a permanent institution.

Then people will contract marriages on their own.

Royal breeding program?  Sheesh.

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't know about the rest of you; but, I'd hate to breed them out or sell them into slavery....lose my ready made army of elven archers in case my country is invaded since everyone knows in Thedas we just went through a blight. Total insanity there.

Army? With what coin you would equip them and supply them, because you would need to do both of those. Keeping an army fed and equipped costs a great deal, and in my opinion ( military wise ) selling them would be the far smarter thing to do.



Breeding them out would also take time, at least a few generations.

[Wulfram]

Do we know what the Chantry's official position on City Elves is? Most of them seem relatively nice to my elven characters, though I'm assuming they're not allowed to join.



Because if anyone has the moral authority to actually change attitudes to the elves, it would be them. And they might think that they've got more chance of converting the Dalish if the existing Andrastean elves aren't treated like crap

[asaiasai]

oh man oh man oh man this can of worms, but here i go.



The elves in Feraldin society are kept below the average human for one reason only. It is a derivative of class warfare, you have the haves, the have nots and the have nothings. This is necessary to keep a certain portion of your population so totally concerned with what what another portion is doing to misdirect scrutiny from the poor position of everybody but the haves. The average human can content themselves that they are not the lowest rung on the ladder of society because the elves occupy that place. So long as those humans have someone they can feel superior to and by law are superior to the haves can continue the manipulation of both the average humans and the elves and stoke the hatred as necessary as a form of misdirection away from how pointless and hopless both of thier existences are.



This is similar to what happened in the American south after 1865 with Jim Crow laws, the klan etc etc. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class gets the bill. So long as the wealthy land owners provided negros for the average white person to feel superior about, the average white person was not as concerned about the wealthy elite. Anytime someone riled up the rabble the wealthy would just trot out an ****** for an excuse or misdirection and the race riots would begin. These are not the typical race riots we have seen in the last 20 years or so, these riots were a bunch of hayseed white people going into the ****** areas looting, pillaging, murdering to such a degree that even the Vikings of lore would appalled.



It is always class warfare, and anyone who tells you different is lying. If every one of the little people got together and saw the extent of how bad the wealthy elite were screwing you revolution would be all that is left. For white people they pushed the ****** for many years, now they push the hispanic as something the white person should fear. If you do not believe me consider the debate (?) concerning immigration in the US at current. The great mass of unwashed Mexicans taking your jobs, sending thier money home, forcing thier foreign and foul culture upon us all, something has to be done. They are right but what they suggest is not it.



Yea we need to watch, but we need to watch the corporations who pollute for profit (BP oil), who bank off shore to avoid thier share of taxes for the very infrastructure (roads, stable currency, educated workers etc etc) thier ecomonic monstrosities would not be able to flourish without. The monied elite who exert an over abundance of influence in election campaigns by exorbant political contributions and thier shills called 527s. But most important keep an eye on the Tea Party which was started with a 250,000 dollar donation from the Heritage Foundation, which is a veritable whos who of American monied elite.



So what would i do, first purge the nobility. Second set up a Republic. Third make it so that the monied elite would never be able to buy the government by over participation (exorbant campaign contributions by limiting those contributions to a flat amount per registered voter) into the election of governmental officials upon penalty of death and seizure of assets. Fourth, ensure a level playing field by education for all who have the intellect to benefit both themselves and society from the education level of grade, high, trade, or college. Paid for by the taxes collected from a flat rate sales tax.



Do not hate just because i do not buy the standard BS, do not question my patriotism as you have little standing to do so, read, investigate in a sense do the homework then form your own opinion.



Asai

[LobselVith8]

[quote]dream_operator23 wrote...

Well the title pretty much says it all.  I got inspired to start this from some talk in the Anora thread, but I didn't want to derail that thread with talk of Alienage elves, so here we go.  So exactly how would you go about managing the Alienage and the elves within if you were King/Queen? Also whatever you would do, would you support similiar treatment of mariginalized populations in real life? What outcomes do you think your actions would bring and why? Do you think there might be any unforseen consequences to your actions? I want people all sides of the issue to be honest about these things.  Don't just think whatever you would do would be the absolute right decision and that nothing could go wrong...
[/quote]

If my elven Mage Warden was King of Ferelden, wow... I guess I'm leaving out the war against the Chantry, the expulsion of the templars, and liberating the Ferelden Circle regardless of what the Divine says...

I'd elect Shianni as Bann of Denerim, despite any opposition I would face. I'd have an elf on the royal council. I've give them equal rights. I'd have the guards crackdown hard on any people who try to riot against this or attack the alienage. I'd bring in elves from the alienage to become guards since plenty of the guards during DA:O seemed pretty inept, and I'd make Sergeant Kylon a captain and place him in charge of security over competent guards to try to keep the bloodshed to a minimum. I think there would be incidents between humans and elves, but since nothing has been done for centuries to improve relations between the two, something drastic needs to be done before a revolution takes place.

[quote]Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I'd pass laws allowing equal opportunity for the elves, but that's it. In my society, status as a citizen would be something earned. Thus, the elves would be given the opportunity, but if they chose to behave like hood rats and do nothing useful, and not contribute to the progress of society, then they would fare no better. If they chose to continually isolate themselves, well, their problem. The opportunity is there to be taken, not handed to them on a silver platter.

I'd allow the elves the opportunity to help themselves, but I'd still bring the smack down if they started demanding something for nothing.[/quote]

You realize that elves who get enough money do buy houses outside the alienage, and those houses get burned down by humans, right?

[quote]Bruddajakka wrote...

Don't know if I'd bother. From what we see about the Elves except for a very vocal minority most of them seem pretty content. Probably pass a law to make it equally to treat them as Vaughn was, and let them have the same legal rights as a human but that's about it. [/quote]

They're living in poverty and we really don't get that in-depth with any of them. Considering that Vaughan abducted women in broad daylight and nobody did anything about it, as well as the riot that followed (and the food riot that happens if Anora is made Queen without Alistair), I'm guessing there were quite a few who aren't happy with their situation.

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[quote]Giggles_Manically wrote...

Building suburbs or alienage like areas on the outskirts may work.
I think its more of an issue with no jobs being present.

With the blight though there are plenty of places that need fixing. So like you said KoP big government projects could work. Though only for a while, there needs to be jobs at the end or youre back to square one again. Although a square with more roads and such that is.[/quote]

Anora's reforms that focus on trade and education will probably result in a strong middle class eventually. The middle class historically speaking has been a very entrepreneur class. These, if given the opportunity, tend to create jobs via their enterprises. Elves being cheap would make them valuable.

Of course the fear is that some humans might see the elves as taking over their jobs since the bourgoisie would be favoring elves because they are cheaper (same dynamics with immigrants in today's world). This could be alleviated via education, in which most humans would be too qualified for menial labour and would be enlisted as something higher. But you obviously can't make all humans qualified enough.
 
You'll always have problems. Even in today's world, we still have problems vis a vis this. [/quote]

We know little of Anora's reforms; it's possible that the university she intends on building focuses solely on educating the elite and does nothing for humans of the middle or lower class.

[quote]Giggles_Manically wrote...

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[quote]Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

If the elves are smart, once the reconstruction finishes, they will take what they have earned, both money and experience, and use it to improve their lot, as well as the lot for future generations. Like saving up the money to send their kids to schooling, or start their own businesses, or gain enough respect that their opportunities shall improve.[/quote]

Problems is, elves are not as smart as Jews. [/quote]
Many of them lack a real work ethic as well.

Jewish/Protestant/Jain/Muslims all had built in drives from their readings and cultures that made them want to do well. Most elves seem happy just scrapping by. That wont help you in the long run at all.[/quote]

I'm not even going to touch the comment on Jewish people because it's in poor taste (to say the least), but what makes you think elves enjoy living in a ghetto? We really don't get that in-depth with them in the storyline. The one we do get much interaction with, Shianni, seems pretty unhappy with how things are. Others seem resigned to their fate.

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

There are no lands for the elves to get. [/quote]

The Dalish get the Hinterlands in the Epilogue, and the Brecilian Forest seems pretty deserted.

[quote]Sarah1281 wrote...

[quote]Befit wrote...

[quote]Sarah1281 wrote...

Except the Dalish always accept the CE's that leave to seek them out. I believe that the Dalish don't like the elves that choose to live under oppression rather then leave and join them. If you've played the dalish elf origin you meet an elf that came from the city and no one treated him unfairly [/quote]

They eventually do once the CE proves themself to them. In the DE origin, the Dalish seem to be belittling the CE that left to seek them out. They feel that they are better than the CE and were acting like it. [/quote]

Belittling? that striked me more as training, which sucks for the instructer. Ever tried to teach an adult things that a kid can do? (I mean dalish kids)[/quote]

Did you question him? Every time he tried to explain why he left, why he was looking for the Dalish, how life was like the guy training him kept looking down on him and you had some dialogue options doing the same thing. Clearly, the attitude of that conversation, which can safely be assumed is the attitude of many Dalish, was that the city elves deserved what happened to them because they won't stand up and fight. Well they did stand up and fight in the CE origin and look where that got them. [/quote]

The Dalish don't seem to know that much about the city elves. Lanaya, the Keeper, asks the Warden what the cities are like. Athras in particular treats the Warden with respect and apologies if any of the Dalish were rude. Yes, some of them do look down on them, but so do the city elves when it comes to their perception of the Dalish as barbaric. The former city elf Pol says that the Dalish are nothing like the stories that the city elves talk about in the alienage and Junar treats him fairly well in the archery lesson. You can either treat Pol kindly or act mean to him, just like the Warden can with plenty of other people throughout DA:O.

[Dean_the_Young]

Addai67 wrote...
Then people will contract marriages on their own.

Royal breeding program?  Sheesh.

Most states and nations don't recognize non-certified marriages, and in earlier socieites the idea of living with a paramore without marrying was considered taboo. It could also land you in certain penalties, like having your child removed.

'Royal breeding program' is misleading, as even you must admit: there is no tracing of geneologies, no need for approval for any other match. There's but one restriction, and that's marriage between two elves.

[Giggles_Manically]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Then people will contract marriages on their own.

Royal breeding program?  Sheesh.

Most states and nations don't recognize non-certified marriages, and in earlier socieites the idea of living with a paramore without marrying was considered taboo. It could also land you in certain penalties, like having your child removed.

'Royal breeding program' is misleading, as even you must admit: there is no tracing of geneologies, no need for approval for any other match. There's but one restriction, and that's marriage between two elves.

And that plan is never going to work.

Ten minutes after it gets announced there is going to mobs, and with days active violence against the crown.
Also many humans who are going to not want to marry elves or vice versa would side against this.
It has zero chance of working. Look up what happens when you try to control people's religion, or their "breeding" as you call it. .

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 11 septembre 2010 - 10:20 .