106 réponses à ce sujet

[NugWrangler]

I don't think it's fair to say there is no valid reason to kill Morrigan. One of my characters did it and the other let her go. The one who did kill her wanted OGB for herself. When Morrigan wouldn't reveal the location attacking her seemed like the only way to stop her from disappearing forever. I also think that Morrigan would have been prepared for the possibility of something happening to her and left the child somewhere it would be cared for. Otherwise she would have just dove through the mirror and not given you an opening to attack her at all. Her steps could be retraced and the mirror could be investigated. There's a chance to locate the child without her. I don't feel bad at least from that character's perspective for offing her.

[phaonica]

Zjarcal wrote...

I really don't want to drag this too much since I've already stated that I have nothing against people RPing their characters however they want to, but to kill someone just because their plan "sounds risky" is a bit extreme in my opinion.

Well "sounds risky" was kind of a understatement on my part. To me, it "sounds risky" the same way that the Architects plans "sound risky".

Gilsa wrote...
The question she asked was "will you let me go?" and the dialogue options presented were: "let her go" or "attack." It didn't say "kill her." I just didn't want her to go through the mirror

It did say "attack her", but when I clicked that, my character was completely ready if that resulted in her death (though as a player I was actually surprised I was able to "kill" her, I really thought that she'd get away).

[FlyinElk212]

Not to start a war or anything, but...who's to say you killed Morrigan?

I didn't see her body slink down to the ground and die. She fell in the portal after you stabbed her in what seemed to be the gut--not necessarily a life-ending wound. Furthermore, I don't recall the option in the dialogue being "(Kill Morrigan)". I remember it being "(Attack Morrigan)" (I may be wrong though)

*hides under the flame shields*

[BroBear Berbil]

I see no reason to kill her, period. I don't even see a reason why somebody would be angry with her at all.

[Sarah1281]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Not to start a war or anything, but...who's to say you killed Morrigan?
I didn't see her body slink down to the ground and die. She fell in the portal after you stabbed her in what seemed to be the gut--not necessarily a life-ending wound. Furthermore, I don't recall the option in the dialogue being "(Kill Morrigan)". I remember it being "(Attack Morrigan)" (I may be wrong though)
*hides under the flame shields*

Well, if you did not think that 'attack Morrigan' meant 'kill Morrigan' then there's even less of a reason to do it as all you'd accomplish is pissing her off or releasing some pent-up aggression at her. Even the reasoning that you were trying to stop her from going into the mirror falls flat when you consider she is standing less than a foot away from it and if you come near her to attack she can just go through it.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

I think it's idiotic to kill her, especially if you've actually paid attention to her. Morrigan is rough around the edges, but is ultimately a good person deep down. Besides, the mere fact that she allowed the Warden (and my Warden was quite the good guy throughout the game) to come with her to the other side of the portal tells me that she doesn't have any evil intentions (as my Warden would stop her if he did). Go with her through the portal not only allows the Warden to keep an eye on Morrigan, but also his child all while preparing for the inevitable confrontation with Flemeth. People who decided they would just go ahead and shank her are just as unreasonable as the people who decided to blow up the base at the end of Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 10 septembre 2010 - 10:52 .

[keesio74]

My male city elf who romanced her let her walk through the portal (he stayed behind). He felt too much for her to kill her.



But when my female human noble who was 100 friendly approval on Origins and denied her the DR, was very tempted to kill her. I just didn't trust her anymore. I felt it was best for the world if Morrigan did not live.

[this isnt my name]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I think it's idiotic to kill her, especially if you've actually paid attention to her. Morrigan is rough around the edges, but is ultimately a good person deep down. Besides, the mere fact that she allowed the Warden (and my Warden was quite the good guy throughout the game) to come with her to the other side of the portal tells me that she doesn't have any evil intentions (as my Warden would stop her if he did). Go with her through the portal not only allows the Warden to keep an eye on Morrigan, but also his child all while preparing for the inevitable confrontation with Flemeth. People who decided they would just go ahead and shank her are just as unreasonable as the people who decided to blow up the base at the end of Mass Effect 2.

Morrigan is a good person, TIM/Cerberus isnt good. Not just to aliens, but look at what they do to other humans.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

this isnt my name wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I think it's idiotic to kill her, especially if you've actually paid attention to her. Morrigan is rough around the edges, but is ultimately a good person deep down. Besides, the mere fact that she allowed the Warden (and my Warden was quite the good guy throughout the game) to come with her to the other side of the portal tells me that she doesn't have any evil intentions (as my Warden would stop her if he did). Go with her through the portal not only allows the Warden to keep an eye on Morrigan, but also his child all while preparing for the inevitable confrontation with Flemeth. People who decided they would just go ahead and shank her are just as unreasonable as the people who decided to blow up the base at the end of Mass Effect 2.

Morrigan is a good person, TIM/Cerberus isnt good. Not just to aliens, but look at what they do to other humans.

I don't know whether or not TIM is evil or morally neutral. Nevertheless, if they do something I don't approve of, it's not like I can't take them out at any point at which I please. I took out the legendary Shadow Broken. I'm pretty sure I can handle the illusive man if need be.

[Brockololly]

For RP reasons you can do whatever and thats fine. I just think that looking at the larger view of things, murder knifing Morrigan is riskier for the sake of Thedas than letting her go, especially if you did the DR.

Presumably the OGB is already on the other side of that portal, so you "kill" Morrigan, whats to say that Flemeth won't get her hands on it? Or maybe the child grows up knowing that the Warden shanked/killed his mother and comes back to Thedas with a vengeance?

Ultimately I think it comes down to how much your PC trusts Morrigan versus Flemeth. They're both scheming up something big- do you want Morrigan behind the wheel or Flemeth?

I could see maybe punching Morrigan out Shepard style, but gutting her like that and having her just stand there asking for permission to leave made the whole scene seem a bit like fan service to those that were pissed she just walked out when you turn her down in the DR scene.

[Zjarcal]

DWSmiley wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I just thought it was a spiteful, horrible thing to do. I didn't even realise it was possible until I saw it on YouTube. Her betrayed expression was heartbreaking.

And after the happy reunion between her and dog, too!  Dog is a good judge of character and killing her is only an option for those who see people as disposable commodities, imo.

You sir have made the best argument for why attacking Morrigan is a bad idea!

Dog always gets it right, with Sophia Dryden, Zathrian, Kitty. At the beginning of WH we see how he growls at Ariane but will back off and happily bark once he sees she's no threat. Also, in some of the conversations with Dog, if you express a desire to kill Morrigan, he won't be happy about it. And then there's the sweet reunion where Morrigan playfully greets him... I loved it!

So yes, always bet on Dog.

[Costin_Razvan]

If you refused the DR and think she is a manipulative woman who used you for her own ends, then yes "killing" her was the right choice.



But if you accepted the DR, then it's a very dumb choice.

[Obadiah]

Just saw the kill scene on youtube. That is messed up. With or without the Dark Ritual, I don't see why killing Morrigan would be useful at all.

Modifié par Obadiah, 11 septembre 2010 - 12:57 .

[Gavinthelocust]

Kind of seemed like a dick move after she told me about my child and how she misses me but can't continue the relationship because I accidentally gave her ring to Anders or something. I spent most of origins trying to get her to like me I am not going to suddenly shank her like she owes her pimp money.

[MisterShine]

I haven't played witch hunt yet, but I really don't see a reason why I SHOULDN'T kill Morrigan.



I kept her with me most of the game (her and Alistair were great, got Wynne last), but did not romance her but we got friendly at least. She proved time and time again that she was a petty and spiteful creature. The slightest effort to help another person, in their time of desperate need? No, need to tell me what you think Morrigan, I can already guess what you have to say : "**** 'em."



Then I give her the black grimoire, and she tells me to kill Flemeth. Uh... what? And I don't get to see any of this evidence that condemns her? I'm just supposed to kill Flem, no questions asked? We can't even TRY to talk this out? Nuh uh.



The icing on the cake though, the final battle. You say you want access to one of the most powerful beings in the world? A selfish and evil thing like you? HELL NO. Then, after all the times I've saved your sorry ass, you're going to just leave? Yeah, that swings even more evidence in the favor that this is what she wanted out of me all along. Which is why in almost every game I play I choose the "I really should have killed you when I first met you". I was always sad I couldn't follow through on that threat.



So I guess what I'm trying to say, is unless there are some major revelations in witch hunt, killing her is a favor to all of Thedas.

[Zjarcal]

MisterShine wrote...

I haven't played witch hunt yet, but I really don't see a reason why I SHOULDN'T kill Morrigan.

*insert lots of Morrigan hate*

So I guess what I'm trying to say, is unless there are some major revelations in witch hunt, killing her is a favor to all of Thedas.

Haters gonna hate.

I'm glad that WH will give you the chance to "kill" Morrigan though. It should bring a smile to your face. 

[Giggles_Manically]

[MisterShine]

Zjarcal wrote...

Haters gonna hate.

Exactly, you wrap up my whole post in 3 words. Kill Morrigan because if you let her live, all she'll do is keep on hatin'.

Seriously though, what I'm trying to say is, unless you view selfishness, spite towards people who aren't as powerful as yourself, and a lust for power with obscure intent as positive attributes, why wouldn't you kill Morrigan?

[Zjarcal]

MisterShine wrote...

Exactly, you wrap up my whole post in 3 words. Kill Morrigan because if you let her live, all she'll do is keep on hatin'.

Seriously though, what I'm trying to say is, unless you view selfishness, spite towards people who aren't as powerful as yourself, and a lust for power with obscure intent as positive attributes, why wouldn't you kill Morrigan?

Well, some people are able to see past her flaws, realizing that a person who was raised by Flemeth, in the wilds isolated from civilization, with the idea that power and survival are the only things that matter, is bound to have some issues.

But I'm not going to argue. Everyone can have whatever view they want of the characters in the game and that's fine. I will leave you however with this little gem that was written by David Gaider and illustrated by the very talented Aimo. It's a scene that was originally going to be in the game but had to be cut for budget and time constraints. Not that it will change your opinion of Morrigan, but perhaps you will see that deep down in that "dark and evil heart" there are some real feelings.

http://blog.bioware....velation-comic/

[asaiasai]

I bought Witch Hunt only because the developers allowed the player to kill Morrigan. I have to say and many here who have argued against me for the last several months will have to agree, there is NO single greater Morrigan hater than me. Even so of the 4 times with 4 different characters i ran through WH, Morrigan has a 50% survival rate. Alot of points raised by others are good ones both for her death and against, and i have to agree from a RP standpoint not all of my characters RPed it Morrigan must die. I only have 2 characters out of 20 that used the DR anyway so i had a few issues with WH from a continuity standpoint.

One character i played "Me" male human noble was set up to be king from the very beginning. As such i romanced neither Morrigan or Leliana, as a matter of point Morrigan was removed from my party on arrival at Lotharin, only to make an appearance in Redcliffe to offer me the ritual which i refused. I find it most disturbing that the game takes it for granted that "Me" has a son that i seem to know nothing about. This caused me to consider this character's story and try a reason out how "Me" could have a son. The only thing that comes to mind is maybe a **** from the Pearl or Isabella would be the most logical point, but why would Morrigan hunt down and collect Me's son? Second upon failure to produce said child of unknown origin that for the most part i am sure is not Me's by Morrigan (unless there was trickery involved, which opens up a whole new set of criteria) caused "Me" to react poorly. Morrigan was gutted and tossed back into the mirror, which is not what i would have done. See who knows what is on the other side of the mirror, no you grab her shirt gut her and toss her in the dirt at your feet to watch her bleed out, to ensure she is dead and left to rot where she lays. Some of you would argue that the child has no mother with Morrigan gone, but Morrigan's failure to explain how she came by "Me's" son, and failure to produce said child for the rightful parent, it seems to me she had it comming. 

It is this particular reason that i am the most disappointed in Bioware for Witch Hunt, for it seems like a virgin on prom night Bioware has great intentions but seems to keep blowing it down thier leg before they can get thier pants down. If your going to give the player choices, YOU MUST ENSURE THOSE CHOICES ARE REFLECTED IN THE WORLD, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE DIALOG OPTIONS REFLECT THEM. If this is too difficult from a game developer, save import standpoint, then create a menu in the very beginning where the player can select the choices they want this play to be centered around. You did it with ME2 and for the most part ME2 worked ok, or at least better than what we have, yea i know ME2 did something better than DAO who would have thought that possible even 2 weeks ago?

If not for the inconsistencies of plot to character relationships reflected in the world and dialog options i would have really enjoyed WH, killing Morrigan aside. I have to say that my position on Morrigan has softened yet again, to one of apathy, but even if you did supposedly kill her by the developers creating the scene pushing her back through the mirror she will return. All i have to say is when she does return i had better be given the option to send her packing again, the kniife in the belly is optional, but sending her packing is not.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 11 septembre 2010 - 06:27 .

[Zjarcal]

@asai:



There is a patch in the works (likely to come in the next few days) that fixes the bugs you mentioned.

[Myusha]

I can see a reason for maybe an Insane Warden who fell in love for Morrigan. She's out for survival, and the Warden could crack understress and just agree with the first person who has any stance and power. Thus he could refer to Morrigan always, but when she leaves he could go all ARGHABLARG, and hunt her down.



But yeah...Stabbing her like that is sad, and after what she's been through...I think that one move there, would be like telling Alistair you're getting Loghain to be a Warden, and then executing him.

[asaiasai]

Zjarcal wrote...

@asai:

There is a patch in the works (likely to come in the next few days) that fixes the bugs you mentioned.

I really hope so because i chose Me as the first character to run through WH because he was the most recient,  his story and the choices were still fresh in my memory. I was extremely disappointed in that after all this time, DAO, Awakenings, RTO and finally Witch Hunt that Bioware has not been able to fix the inconsistency of the reflection of the player's choices in the realm. This is not a NEW issue it has been going on since DAO and it seems that either Bioware can not or do not want to fix this, and yes it is most annoying. It seems that the ability of Bioware to read the players save import is broken or non existent, something has to be done regarding this. If Bioware can not seem to get the reading of the save details correct, then at least recognize that, take steps to ensure the decisions are reflected if necessary a menu listing all the relevant decisions right at the very beginning of the game. I am sure that most of us here would be willing to allow the immersion to be broken at the beginning of the game to sort through a relevant menu regarding the choices we want the world to reflect so that we can get the consistency of the story arcs to relfect our best recollection of the players choices. Bioware get on this, this major detail of the game design is one that blows the immersion more than a menu of choices at the beginning of the game ever would.

Fortunatly witch hunt is short, so i can replay after the patch to get the necessary story consistency, that is if they fix it in a timely fashion. If they can not get it right, or choose to ignore this issue what makes any of us here think that DA2 will be any better? Great, a new story with all the inconsistency of previous DAO incarnations or a linear story suitable for a few plays and then it will join the other dust collectors. 
Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 11 septembre 2010 - 06:18 .

[phaonica]

I don't believe Morrigan is evil. But I don't trust her plan to change the world against it's will.

“There are no moustache-twirling villains,” says [Mark] Darrah. “They think they’re good. They all think they’re doing something for the best reasons. They may be wrong, but they think they’re doing things for the right reasons.”

Presumably the OGB is already on the other side of that portal so you "kill" Morrigan, whats to say that Flemeth won't get her hands on it? Or maybe the child grows up knowing that the Warden shanked/killed his mother and comes back to Thedas with a vengeance?

Morrigan says that the people will probably fight against this change that she proposes, but that they will come to see that it is for their own good.  Does this not sound similar to what the Architect wanted to do in The Calling?
Yes, I could make the situation worse by killing Morrigan. But if I don't stop her, then there is no chance of stopping this change she proposes. If I "kill" her, there is a chance that it will stop/disrupt this change. If I let her walk away, I'm just letting this change happen.

Ultimately I think it comes down to how much your PC trusts Morrigan versus Flemeth.

I don't trust either of them. And really, I think there is far less reason to kill Flemeth when that option comes up, but a lot of people do it anyway.

Modifié par phaonica, 11 septembre 2010 - 06:57 .