351 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

Raanz wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

This is a quantity vs. quality issue. Quality players appreciate FemShep, while the hordes of glorified locusts known as "teenagers" no doubt just pew-pew-pew away with Mr. Manly Man Shepard. People with no imagination should not be dictating the level of attention the 'less popular' game content receives.

Really?  The air must be thin way up there.  I only wish I was a teenager.
This is the kind of response that gives femShep players the perception of elitism.  Try again.

[NICKjnp]

Siansonea II wrote...

This is a quantity vs. quality issue. Quality players appreciate FemShep, while the hordes of glorified locusts known as "teenagers" no doubt just pew-pew-pew away with Mr. Manly Man Shepard. People with no imagination should not be dictating the level of attention the 'less popular' game content receives.

I play as a Mr. Manly Man Shepard... and I like Meer's voice acting just fine.  I think that Hale is a little too emotional for someone who is a soldier.

[Lisa_H]

Nice article, it is good to see femShep that gets some attention.

About the statisics. I think it is hard to read anything out from them. Until Bioware clearify what they mean. If they mean that 80% has played as manShep it does not have to mean much, many of the strongest femShep supporters have played as a male once or twice. So it could be something like 80% has played as a maleShep, and 60% as femShep but it is impossible to say before they release more statistics.

I would also like to see the gender ratio between Shepards in completed games, because didn't the statisics say that many people never finsish the game?

[InvaderErl]

NICKjnp wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

This is a quantity vs. quality issue. Quality players appreciate FemShep, while the hordes of glorified locusts known as "teenagers" no doubt just pew-pew-pew away with Mr. Manly Man Shepard. People with no imagination should not be dictating the level of attention the 'less popular' game content receives.

I play as a Mr. Manly Man Shepard... and I like Meer's voice acting just fine.  I think that Hale is a little too emotional for someone who is a soldier.

I've seen this and I'd argue its not emotion per se that's throwing people off about her. I thought about it for a bit and I think Hale's Shepard voice lacks a sense of discipline about it (that is military discipline). Its obviously hard to put something so subjective into something concrete but when I hear for example Aeryn Sun or Starbuck they certainly come off as emotional beings but there is still a certain sense of discipline in their voice that makes me believe that yes this character is a soldier.

Meer's Shepard sounds like military men I've talked to (brother's in the Navy).

Modifié par InvaderErl, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[Jonesey2k]

I prefer playing as FemShep. I prefer the sound of her voice and to agree with Harkin, she's got a great body to look at

[vp1940]

An interesting article, but fundamentally flawed imo. It lacks the basic truth that of the group who play FemShep, the vast majority are male players. and of that vast majority, the VAST majority chose Liara as the original love interest. So at the end of the day, though there are genuine players of FemShep for genuine reasons, and that is certainly their story, FemShep's origins are pretty obviously a straight male's gimmick fantasy of alien lesbian sex. Even if said male player does get genuinely attached to the character, its still a pathetic origin that really just puts to waste the effort Bioware puts into the games. This has pretty much marred FemShep from being anything to be taken seriously in my mind.

On a personal note, I do so many playthroughs that I also do end up at least doing one FemShep run just to hear the dialogue by Jen Hale. Its pretty good, but imo over the top. The male shep's voice is more natural, if stilted. Hale is a much more deliberately gruff "Grrr I'm a tough woman!" and lacks the natural gravity of Ellen Ripley or other female leads. There's something just off about the performance, and thus, the FemShep in general just seems out of place in the ME universe to me, personally. For some reason, I just don't believe her heroics.

[The Elite Elite]

Lisa_H wrote...

Nice article, it is good to see femShep that gets some attention.
About the statisics. I think it is hard to read anything out from them. Until Bioware clearify what they mean. If they mean that 80% has played as manShep it does not have to mean much, many of the strongest femShep supporters have played as a male once or twice. So it could be something like 80% has played as a maleShep, and 60% as femShep but it is impossible to say before they release more statistics.

Like someone else said, all that statistic ultimately proves is that 20% of ME2 players (that allow BioWare to upload their gameplay data) have only played as FemShep. I'd like to know how many players have only played as a male Shep. (I wouldn't be surprised if it was still higher than how many have played FemShep, but it would be more meaningful than this current statistic)

I would also like to see the gender ration between Shepards in completed games, because didn't the statistics say that many people never finsish the game?

I believe the statistic was that 50% of players have never finished the game. Quite frankly I don't think people who never even did a full playthrough should be counted in these statistics. Only people who actually like the game and completed it should be counted. What use would the statistics be from someone who obviously didn't care for the game enough to even finish a single playthrough?

vp1940 wrote...

An interesting article, but fundamentally flawed imo. It lacks the basic
truth that of the group who play FemShep, the vast majority are male
players. and of that vast majority, the VAST majority chose Liara as the
original love interest. So at the end of the day, though there are
genuine players of FemShep for genuine reasons, and that is certainly
their story, FemShep's origins are pretty obviously a straight male's
gimmick fantasy of alien lesbian sex. Even if said male player does get
genuinely attached to the character, its still a pathetic origin that
really just puts to waste the effort Bioware puts into the games. This
has pretty much marred FemShep from being anything to be taken seriously
in my mind.

Yup, that's it. The vast majority of us males who play FemShep are just doing it for the hot lesbian loving. <_< Nope, it isn't that the vast majority of us can't stand Meer's VA.

Modifié par The Elite Elite, 11 septembre 2010 - 03:47 .

[NICKjnp]

vp1940 wrote...

An interesting article, but fundamentally flawed imo. It lacks the basic truth that of the group who play FemShep, the vast majority are male players. and of that vast majority, the VAST majority chose Liara as the original love interest. So at the end of the day, though there are genuine players of FemShep for genuine reasons, and that is certainly their story, FemShep's origins are pretty obviously a straight male's gimmick fantasy of alien lesbian sex. Even if said male player does get genuinely attached to the character, its still a pathetic origin that really just puts to waste the effort Bioware puts into the games. This has pretty much marred FemShep from being anything to be taken seriously in my mind.

On a personal note, I do so many playthroughs that I also do end up at least doing one FemShep run just to hear the dialogue by Jen Hale. Its pretty good, but imo over the top. The male shep's voice is more natural, if stilted. Hale is a much more deliberately gruff "Grrr I'm a tough woman!" and lacks the natural gravity of Ellen Ripley or other female leads. There's something just off about the performance, and thus, the FemShep in general just seems out of place in the ME universe to me, personally. For some reason, I just don't believe her heroics.

Great post... which I agree with 100%.  My frustrations about Femshep and the lesbian relationship with Liara that I see is not so much that it is a lesbian relationship, which I think is a good thing for gamers who are in fact lesbians, but that it is mostly hyped by males who have this 19 year old mind set that lesbians are cool.  I think it is an insult to lesbians the way they put things in their sigs about "Liara loves Femshep" and "Liara and Femshep having babies".  I usually keep my mouth shut about it... because I'm not a lesbian and it is not my place to get into an argument about it.... but sometimes you just have to voice your opinion.

The biggest insult is that they made a lesbian relationship (geared towards a straight male's sex phantasy) but they didn't include a male/male romance.  Boo Bioware... BOOOOOOOOO!

Modifié par NICKjnp, 11 septembre 2010 - 03:29 .

[MassEffect762]

If I play as a full paragon I plays as FemShep.



If I play a mix I play as MaleShep.



If I play as a full renegade I play as MaleShep.



If I want Liara I play as FemShep.



If I want Tali I need to play as MaleShelp.



Did hot lesbianism(I'm male) and meer/hale factor in to the decision, yes it did.



I primarily play as Femshep since I play paragon most the time. I have a maleshep mix set up for alternate paths and Tali, that's it.

[Solaris Paradox]

Personally, I just prefer the voice-actor.

[Christmas Ape]

Man, we blew right through the checkpoints at the Ignorance Border and we're just fully in country now, huh?

[Heavensrun]

HBC Dresden wrote...

Anyone hate the person named Tadhg Kelly in the comments section of the article?

But this whole issue of only 20% of players used Femshep (we must be one loud-ass minority) may not mean the vast majority does not like playing a female protagonist (counter-point: Tomb Raider), but that Bioware needs to show Femshep in marketing (stepping stone: showing a pic of Lady Hawke). If half of players did not finish the game, I bet many did not know female was an option due to marketing.

True story:  The first time my cousin played Mass Effect, he played on the default face, because he didn't -realize- he could customize.  I honestly don't know if he would have played a femshep or not, but this -does- say something about marketing the Sheploo face everywhere.

[MugenJustice]

NICKjnp wrote...

Great post... which I agree with 100%.  My frustrations about Femshep and the lesbian relationship with Liara that I see is not so much that it is a lesbian relationship, which I think is a good thing for gamers who are in fact lesbians, but that it is mostly hyped by males who have this 19 year old mind set that lesbians are cool.  I think it is an insult to lesbians the way they put things in their sigs about "Liara loves Femshep" and "Liara and Femshep having babies".  I usually keep my mouth shut about it... because I'm not a lesbian and it is not my place to get into an argument about it.... but sometimes you just have to voice your opinion.

The biggest insult is that they made a lesbian relationship (geared towards a straight male's sex phantasy) but they didn't include a male/male romance.  Boo Bioware... BOOOOOOOOO!

Right, because only lesbians in real life can truly enjoy Liara's/FemShep's relationship.  I don't know, maybe some people - lesbians, gays, and straight males/females  - found the Liara relationship genuinely touching, moreso than with Thane/Garrus...and definitely more than with Kaidan/Jacob. 

I sure did, especially at the end of LotSB.

The Elite Elite wrote...



*snip*



Yup, that's it. The vast majority of us males who play FemShep are just doing it for the hot lesbian loving. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie] Nope, it isn't that the vast majority of us can't stand Meer's VA.

Meer's VA was decent (much better in ME2, imho), but also pretty "neutral"-sounding.  I will never pass up a chance to hear Jen Hale though.  Frankly, the only way she could top her performance was if she did it with Bastila's accent.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Modifié par MugenJustice, 11 septembre 2010 - 05:27 .

[Revan312]

I play femshep as many others have said, almost exclusively because of the voice..



Hale sounds like a person..



Meer sounds like this

[JeanLuc761]

Raanz wrote...

Why does everything have to be a f****** contest....seriously. If you like Fem, play a fem, if you like the male Shep, play him.
Some people act like they have some sort of divine enlightenment if they play a femShep and bash not only the male one, but Meer on top of it. I have news for you, Hale can be just as bad as Meer, but both are pretty good.

*stands up and applauds*

Hale is a great voice actress, and Meer is getting better all the time.  I happen to enjoy Meer's voice, so I roll ManShep more often than not.  Why this is something to be scorned is beyond me.

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 11 septembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[vp1940]

Yup, that's it. The vast majority of us males who play FemShep are just doing it for the hot lesbian loving. <_< Nope, it isn't that the vast majority of us can't stand Meer's VA.

You misunderstand me I think. I'm not saying that you DO it for the lesbian angle, I'm saying you DID it for the lesbian angle. We all know this is why the original Mass Effect grabbed headlines. If you play Mass Effect, and you're a straight male, and you played FemShep, you chose Liara. Maybe it was subconscious, maybe not, but we ALL know why. Why do people think Kaidan is the bastard child of the ME series? Because M/M homophobia is rampant among gamers.

Consider, a straight male playing MaleShep will almost always chose Ashley over Kaidan at Virmire. Even if they romance Liara, they subconsciously want more female company.

Now, a straight male playing FemShep will almost always be too homophobic to romance Kaidan, and he'll die at Virmire to save Ashley again, for the double female presence on the ship.

Thats just the way it is, if may have changed over multiple playthroughs for a final run (doubtful), but a straight male FemShep first run looks exactly as I just described. I know a few males irl who play female chars given the option in every game they play. I'm familiar with the "culture", but there is no higher thinking or openminded approach to why they do it. Its gutteral sexual pantomiming, and thats all it will ever be. To suggest that FemShep exists for any reason OTHER than to fulfill this MALE fantasy, is to completely ignore the fact that there is no m/m relationship options in the game. So Bioware is most definitely not catering to all walks of life. FemShep to me, and I stress "to me", is and always will be tainted because of it.

As far as Meer vs. Hale goes, I'd say they're about equal. I mentioned before Hale is not a tough woman naturally. Most of her other roles are damsel fodder. So she's definitely overdoing the "I'm a badass" angle and its throroughly unconvincing. I'm just a bit confused why many are siting her voicework as the basis for their choice, because it really is not very good. Meer is hardly top notch, but at least he sounds like hes not deliberately hiding his true voice.

Modifié par vp1940, 11 septembre 2010 - 07:06 .

[JeanLuc761]

vp1940 wrote...

Yup, that's it. The vast majority of us males who play FemShep are just doing it for the hot lesbian loving. <_< Nope, it isn't that the vast majority of us can't stand Meer's VA.

You misunderstand me I think. I'm not saying that you DO it for the lesbian angle, I'm saying you DID it for the lesbian angle. We all know this is why the original Mass Effect grabbed headlines. If you play Mass Effect, and you're a straight male, and you played FemShep, you chose Liara. Maybe it was subconscious, maybe not, but we ALL know why. Why do people think Kaidan is the bastard child of the ME series? Because M/M homophobia is rampant among gamers.

Consider, a straight male playing MaleShep will almost always chose Ashley over Kaidan at Virmire. Even if they romance Liara, they subconsciously want more female company.

Now, a straight male playing FemShep will almost always be too homophobic to romance Kaidan, and he'll die at Virmire to save Ashley again, for the double female presence on the ship.

Thats just the way it is, if may have changed over multiple playthroughs for a final run (doubtful), but a straight male FemShep first run looks exactly as I just described. I know a few males irl who play female chars given the option in every game they play. I'm familiar with the "culture", but there is no higher thinking or openminded approach to why they do it. Its gutteral sexual pantomiming, and thats all it will ever be. To suggest that FemShep exists for any reason OTHER than to fulfill this MALE fantasy, is to completely ignore the fact that there is no m/m relationship options in the game. So Bioware is most definitely not catering to all walks of life. FemShep to me, and I stress "to me", is and always will be tainted because of it.

As far as Meer vs. Hale goes, I'd say they're about equal. I mentioned before Hale is not a tough woman naturally. Most of her other roles are damsel fodder. So she's definitely overdoing the "I'm a badass" angle and its throroughly unconvincing. I'm just a bit confused why many are siting her voicework as the basis for their choice, because it really is not very good. Meer is hardly top notch, but at least he sounds like hes not deliberately hiding his true voice.

You may have a decent point in there but it's buried under a some very broad assumptions. 

Assumption 1: Straight males go for Liara for hot lesbian loving. 
Alternative: Straight males found Liara to be a more interesting character than Kaiden.

Assumption 2: Straight males playing FemShep won't romance any male characters.
Alternative: Tell that to the FemSheps I have lined up to romance Garrus and Thane, once again because I like their characters.

Assumption 3: FemShep only exists so straight males can get some lesbian lovin'
Alternative:  That's BS from the ground up.  FemShep exists so female gamers can have an avatar to role-play through.  The reason MaleShep doesn't have M/M romance options is because his character is DEFINED as being straight.  Just as FemShep is (technically) defined as being straight (Liara is unisex, remember).

[MrChowderClam]

vp1940 wrote...

Yup, that's it. The vast majority of us males who play FemShep are just doing it for the hot lesbian loving. <_< Nope, it isn't that the vast majority of us can't stand Meer's VA.

You misunderstand me I think. I'm not saying that you DO it for the lesbian angle, I'm saying you DID it for the lesbian angle. We all know this is why the original Mass Effect grabbed headlines. If you play Mass Effect, and you're a straight male, and you played FemShep, you chose Liara. Maybe it was subconscious, maybe not, but we ALL know why. Why do people think Kaidan is the bastard child of the ME series? Because M/M homophobia is rampant among gamers. 

Consider, a straight male playing MaleShep will almost always chose Ashley over Kaidan at Virmire. Even if they romance Liara, they subconsciously want more female company.

Now, a straight male playing FemShep will almost always be too homophobic to romance Kaidan, and he'll die at Virmire to save Ashley again, for the double female presence on the ship. 

Thats just the way it is, if may have changed over multiple playthroughs for a final run (doubtful), but a straight male FemShep first run looks exactly as I just described. I know a few males irl who play female chars given the option in every game they play. I'm familiar with the "culture", but there is no higher thinking or openminded approach to why they do it. Its gutteral sexual pantomiming, and thats all it will ever be. To suggest that FemShep exists for any reason OTHER than to fulfill this MALE fantasy, is to completely ignore the fact that there is no m/m relationship options in the game. So Bioware is most definitely not catering to all walks of life. FemShep to me, and I stress "to me", is and always will be tainted because of it.

As far as Meer vs. Hale goes, I'd say they're about equal. I mentioned before Hale is not a tough woman naturally. Most of her other roles are damsel fodder. So she's definitely overdoing the "I'm a badass" angle and its throroughly unconvincing. I'm just a bit confused why many are siting her voicework as the basis for their choice, because it really is not very good. Meer is hardly top notch, but at least he sounds like hes not deliberately hiding his true voice.  

THE WALL OF TEXT BEGINETH:

IMO it's a bit of a sweeping generalization to say that ALL males who play as a female shepard do so for the lesbian love, don't you think? (and don't pull that "Well, ok but 99% do" BS). I'm not a psychologist or anything, but it bugs me when people take an observation or idea and apply it to an entire population, especially when the romance in the game is entirely optional and doesn't constitute an overwhelmingly large part of the game.

From a logical standpoint, why would a guy who really wants to see some lesbian action play through 30+ hour video game just for a lame "sex" scene. The internet is full enough of that crap anyway.

You also insinuate that every male has some deep unconscious desire within themselves to be around women, and that his desire is played out through mass effect. Fair enough, but you could just have easily played as a male shepard and killed Kaiden and romanced Ashley OR Liara (now you have more choice. whoo hoo). Also, as a guy, I find that in the real world, I would say that 70% of my friends are male, and that my closest friends are almost all male. I find that as much as men like to be around women, they also enjoy interacting with other males and being with "their own kind" in a sense.

You also mention that the ONLY reason that there is a female option is to satisfy a male desire (and "support" your argument with the fact that there is no M/M romance option int he game). Personally, I don't understand this point and maybe you could clarify, but it seems like the absence of a M/M romance in the game is because of the taboo subject of male homosexuality could hurt sales of the game, whereas the F/F romance (especially because Liara is an alien and not another human female) seems to be more acceptable in the countries where the game is sold. It doesn't seem like Bioware intentionally excluded the M/M option because it catered to females or that they included the F/F option because it catered to males. This seems more like a marketing and socio-political decision to me than a practical one. The current political situation in most nations is simply  more accepting of the F/F option than it is of the M/M option. I don't see why Wrex or Garrus couldn't be male romance options excluding the fact that the current political climate doesn't accept male homosexuality as much as female homosexuality.

As far as the VA goes, it's everybody's own opinion on this. I actually bought Mass Effect after watching a playthrough of the game, which happened to be a playthrough with a female shepard (it's the one by padawanmage on youtube). I played through as a male at first, but the voice sounded weird - probably because I was used to hearing the female dialogue. That's probably the main reason my "canon shepard" is female. The male VA just doesn't sound like shepard to me because it's not what I'm used to hearing when I think of shepard.

I also think that I like the female option more is because as a gamer (male or female), I think that there are too many games with the plethora of the super male archetype of Captain America, with his infalliable values and tough manlyness sweeping through enemies while emerging emotionally unscathed (Halo or Crysis, anyone?). It's much more refreshing and makes the story seem much more outstanding with a lead female character.

Contrary to your prediction, I did kill Ashley at Virmire - I wasnt too fond of her Xenophobia - but I did romance Liara in the first game. In my case, your assertion that males are too homophobic to romance kaiden is correct. However, had I had the option to romance Garrus with a female shepard in the first game, I probably would have done so (I did in ME2).

I do think that your points have merit, and you certainly bring up some compelling arguments, but I disagree with the way that you choose to apply your ideas as a sweeping generalization. I'm sure some males play as female shepard because of the reasons you list, but it's one thing to say that some people do, and another thing to say that ALL people do.

[Revan312]

Shep is not defined as being straight. Where in all of ME is it stated that Shep is straight.. nowhere. The reason there is no M/M romance is because the dev team behind ME is a bit more homophobic than the DA team. And Asari are mono-gendered meaning one gender, that gender is female..



About the "lesbian romance" bs behind why males play femshep, I can tell you right now that all but one of my 6 sheps in ME1 were romanceless because I didn't find any of the options alluring enough to go down. My femshep is simply a badass chick that wants to stop the reapers, romance is for people with more years left in their life, my Shep will die at the end of ME3, I demand it!!

[JeanLuc761]

Revan312 wrote...

Shep is not defined as being straight. Where in all of ME is it stated that Shep is straight.. nowhere. The reason there is no M/M romance is because the dev team behind ME is a bit more homophobic than the DA team.

I'm fairly certain that Bioware stated, right out, that Male Shepard is straight in one of their articles (though for the life of me, I can't find it).   M/M content is actually present in Mass Effect 1, but was cut at some point in production.  Does this mean Bioware is homophobic?  I doubt it.  Does it mean that it didn't fit their vision of the character?  Much more likely.

[Code_R]

Personally I think they're both the same VA quality. Why people say Hale is better is a mystery - she sounds alot more natural in KOTOR / Metal Gear Solid. The accent seems too forced. Meer is alot funnier when he needs to be. See "shepherd is a jerk" on youtube.

[kraidy1117]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Shep is not defined as being straight. Where in all of ME is it stated that Shep is straight.. nowhere. The reason there is no M/M romance is because the dev team behind ME is a bit more homophobic than the DA team.

I'm fairly certain that Bioware stated, right out, that Male Shepard is straight in one of their articles (though for the life of me, I can't find it).   M/M content is actually present in Mass Effect 1, but was cut at some point in production.  Does this mean Bioware is homophobic?  I doubt it.  Does it mean that it didn't fit their vision of the character?  Much more likely.

The problem is this Jean. They kept on saying Shepard is your character and that's a lie. It's not. Male Shep can't have any S/S at all while Femshep can, and then BW started trying to make all these excuses for liara even going as far to call her a Asexual which again was a lie. If Shepard is really our character then there should be M/M option, which there is not.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:18 .

[Comrade Bork]

MugenJustice wrote...
 Frankly, the only way she could top her performance was if she did it with Bastila's accent.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I loved Meer's voice acting, and thought Hale improved a lot from ME1 to ME2 (besides the Jacon dialogue), but one thing would have made me LOVE FemShep would be a Bastila-ish voice. That would have been perfect. <3

[Kronner]

kraidy1117 wrote...

 If Shepard is really our character then there should be M/M option, which there is not.

BW clearly said DA and ME are different. In ME you play as pre-defined character. There is no good reason for M/M romance. It is such a minor and unimportant thing that it is not worth the resources BW would have to put into it. BW are called homophobic etc. but this is clearly business decision. How many players would go for it? 5%? If that.

Modifié par Kronner, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:50 .