Ive been wondering this exact question myself.. for my soldier i got the revenant but sniff i found it didnt compete with the matlock. I think i might try it with the shotgun next for my new infiltrator just to see
Infiltrator without Widow?
Débuté par
Rusted Cage
, sept. 10 2010 08:55
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#27
Posté 11 septembre 2010 - 02:48
numotsbane
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The widow is considerably better on a soldier than on an infiltrator anyway, I'd just pick it up then. The Rev is mainly loved for the Rambo feeling it has, and perhaps not as much for its actual effectiveness. which is not to say its not a damn good gun.
#28
Posté 11 septembre 2010 - 02:50
Gravbh
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numotsbane wrote...
The widow is considerably better on a soldier than on an infiltrator anyway, I'd just pick it up then. The Rev is mainly loved for the Rambo feeling it has, and perhaps not as much for its actual effectiveness. which is not to say its not a damn good gun.
I'd like the revenant more if you could wear a red headband while using it, maybe have a string of bullets going from your shoulder to waist as well.
#29
Posté 11 septembre 2010 - 03:04
krimesh
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I fell in love with a Widow. But then, I also fell in love with the Normandy and blue people.
#30
Posté 11 septembre 2010 - 08:31
Grimjesse127
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I guess I just went for Assault Rifles because I never got to use them in ME1. I made a Vanguard and Infiltrator in ME1. Nothing else. So not Soldier. I did unlock the Achievement, but I ended up using a bonus power or sniper instead of the AR.
So I was so eager to use it. And it's pretty bad.
I played (well tried to play) Lair of the Shadow Broker with that same Infiltrator, and even with the Mattock I just couldn't. I wish I had chosen a shotgun. So badly.
So I was so eager to use it. And it's pretty bad.
I played (well tried to play) Lair of the Shadow Broker with that same Infiltrator, and even with the Mattock I just couldn't. I wish I had chosen a shotgun. So badly.
#31
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 08:18
Rusted Cage
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Ok, no assault rifle, thanks guys. I am sold on the shotgun build though as it looks like a totally different play style and power build than my usual infiltrator.
I have noticed that nobody seems to like the Insicor rifle and will pick Viper instead. Why is this?
I have noticed that nobody seems to like the Insicor rifle and will pick Viper instead. Why is this?
#32
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 08:24
numotsbane
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The incisor has a punishingly low ammo pickup, which breaks the weapon.
#33
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 08:42
OniGanon
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Yeah. It's like they forget they were dealing with a 3 round burst weapon when they decided on the ammo capacity and pickups.
I agree, the Revenant should come with a red headband.
Gravbh wrote...
I'd like the revenant more if you could wear a red headband while using it, maybe have a string of bullets going from your shoulder to waist as well.
I agree, the Revenant should come with a red headband.
Modifié par OniGanon, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:45 .
#34
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 09:02
Guest_Shandepared_*
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The problem with the incisor I find is that the infiltrator's natural slow-down isn't long enough to make the most use out of it. Even on a console I think I'm a pretty good shot but I feel that I waste too many bullets with the incisor. It also just isn't as strong as the mantis. It takes two bursts to drop a lot of enemies that the mantis will drop in one.
That said, I've been thinking lately about trying a CQC infiltrator. I actually did this a bit on my first couple of runs. I had a lot of fun using the firestorm that way. That thing roasts most enemies very quickly when you combine it with the cloak.
The geth shotgun looks fun though and I'm curious to see what kind of damage I can do if I wear the kestral torso and hands, and then wear the strength boost pads.
That said, I've been thinking lately about trying a CQC infiltrator. I actually did this a bit on my first couple of runs. I had a lot of fun using the firestorm that way. That thing roasts most enemies very quickly when you combine it with the cloak.
The geth shotgun looks fun though and I'm curious to see what kind of damage I can do if I wear the kestral torso and hands, and then wear the strength boost pads.
#35
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 09:38
Liliandra Nadiar
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I've not really played my Infiltrator since getting the firepower pack, so I can't comment much on the Incisor, but I know I only ever use the Mantis until I get the Widow. The few times I tried the Viper just couldn't click with me. I'm too much of a one-shot/one-kill sniper.
I've sometimes wondered about picking up AR training since the Mattock seems pretty nice when I have the AR skilled squadmates use it and in my pre-Horizon Soldier game that's kind of stalled out.
CQC Inf is workable I'm sure, but my mentality is too much the long range snipe to make it work.
I've sometimes wondered about picking up AR training since the Mattock seems pretty nice when I have the AR skilled squadmates use it and in my pre-Horizon Soldier game that's kind of stalled out.
CQC Inf is workable I'm sure, but my mentality is too much the long range snipe to make it work.
#36
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 09:42
JaegerBane
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Kronner wrote...
JaegerBane wrote...
OniGanon wrote...
Revenant seems a pretty clear upgrade from Avenger.
Not for longer range fighting, it isn't.
Maybe because Revenant is not meant to be long range weapon. A Sniper Rifler is for long range combat and Soldier has it anyways. Revenant is clearly better than Avenger..not.even.close.
Right. Hence it isn't a straight upgrade, as it focuses on shorter range fighting compared to a basic AR.
My point is that the Widow is essentially a boosted Mantis. Anything the Mantis can do, the Widow can do better. That isn't truley the case for the Revenant and the Avenger (although, admittedly, whatever the Avenger can do t longer ranges is eclipsed by the Viper...)
#37
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 08:58
PsyrenY
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I'm a big Widow fan. Heavy Warp/Disruptor in that thing is sex.
#38
Posté 13 septembre 2010 - 01:10
demersel
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I really can't understand one thing, maybe you guys will help me....
CQC infiltrator is extremly fun, and more than viable, but why in order to play CQC infiltrator would you need to pass a Widow? I can play CQC with the widow just as effectively. SMG is your friend.
The only reason, to pass out on a widow is to pick up a shotgun (because face it, AR is pointless) - and really it's only advantage against SMG is stunlock (which i think you can get with SMG just not as often). But point blank you can gun them down just as effectively even with shuriken. Playing as a vanguard i've found that i use melee much more often then actually fire a shotgun, You can do the same with SMG, and not worry about ammo and realoading face to face with enemy. Not to mention that while, say, vanguards and sentinels, and even soldiers can afford to use shotguns, infiltrators really can't due to how the cloak works. When the vanguard charges in the midst of enemies he stuns them, get's his shields recharged, and gets a time slowdown - so he can place a few shots, give some punches, and by the time he is in real danger (i.e. needs to reload, lost his shields, and has low health, the closest enemies are dead but those at mid\\\\long range are all firing on him) - he has the charge ability ready again, and can repeat the procedure.
Not so with the infiltrator. You get your cloak time and them you wait 6 seconds for the recharge, and during that time you don't regenerate shields and health, and can't use medigel. And you can't exactly charge away. The only thing you can do - is hide\\\\ or shoot. And if opposition is at mid range - shotguns aren't that usefull, plus most likely you'll have to reload anyway.
SMG's are really great in close range, and still useful mid\\long range. Tempest is a great gun. It; should not be neglected. I'm pretty sure that shuriken is also great, when you use it on "in-your-face" range. Locust is actually not that great up close. it's more of the ranged gun.
CQC infiltrator is extremly fun, and more than viable, but why in order to play CQC infiltrator would you need to pass a Widow? I can play CQC with the widow just as effectively. SMG is your friend.
The only reason, to pass out on a widow is to pick up a shotgun (because face it, AR is pointless) - and really it's only advantage against SMG is stunlock (which i think you can get with SMG just not as often). But point blank you can gun them down just as effectively even with shuriken. Playing as a vanguard i've found that i use melee much more often then actually fire a shotgun, You can do the same with SMG, and not worry about ammo and realoading face to face with enemy. Not to mention that while, say, vanguards and sentinels, and even soldiers can afford to use shotguns, infiltrators really can't due to how the cloak works. When the vanguard charges in the midst of enemies he stuns them, get's his shields recharged, and gets a time slowdown - so he can place a few shots, give some punches, and by the time he is in real danger (i.e. needs to reload, lost his shields, and has low health, the closest enemies are dead but those at mid\\\\long range are all firing on him) - he has the charge ability ready again, and can repeat the procedure.
Not so with the infiltrator. You get your cloak time and them you wait 6 seconds for the recharge, and during that time you don't regenerate shields and health, and can't use medigel. And you can't exactly charge away. The only thing you can do - is hide\\\\ or shoot. And if opposition is at mid range - shotguns aren't that usefull, plus most likely you'll have to reload anyway.
SMG's are really great in close range, and still useful mid\\long range. Tempest is a great gun. It; should not be neglected. I'm pretty sure that shuriken is also great, when you use it on "in-your-face" range. Locust is actually not that great up close. it's more of the ranged gun.
Modifié par demersel, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:18 .
#39
Posté 13 septembre 2010 - 01:16
Kitteh303
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Ok, to me...
Infiltrator without the Widow is like a kitten without a head or a pie without whipped cream. It's just wrong.
It's the sexiest weapon in the game.
Infiltrator without the Widow is like a kitten without a head or a pie without whipped cream. It's just wrong.
It's the sexiest weapon in the game.
#40
Posté 13 septembre 2010 - 01:25
demersel
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IMO if you want to have yourself some real CQC fun, just take Firestorm as your heavy weapon, as Shanepared has adviced - Widow infiltrators don't actually need heavy weapons on insanity, and that way you actually get to make use of it.
Actually
there is one thing comtarable to that. Blowing away a Geth Prime with
the headshot from your carnifex (or phalanx, if your into kinky) at
point blank. The poor things flies for about three-four meters. Try it
on the Overlord dish mission. It's so much worth it. Using disrapter
ammo makes it easier. if you feel like it you can do it from under the
cloak, but better use it to strip defences and get up close and
then....oh my...how he flies... )))))
Pacifien wrote...
There is no greater fun than headshotting a YMIR mech with the Widow. You hear me?! Absolutely nothing better!
Actually
there is one thing comtarable to that. Blowing away a Geth Prime with
the headshot from your carnifex (or phalanx, if your into kinky) at
point blank. The poor things flies for about three-four meters. Try it
on the Overlord dish mission. It's so much worth it. Using disrapter
ammo makes it easier. if you feel like it you can do it from under the
cloak, but better use it to strip defences and get up close and
then....oh my...how he flies... )))))
Modifié par demersel, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:39 .
#41
Posté 13 septembre 2010 - 01:36
demersel
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double post
Modifié par demersel, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:39 .
#42
Posté 13 septembre 2010 - 02:09
OniGanon
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demersel wrote...
I really can't understand one thing, maybe you guys will help me....
CQC infiltrator is extremly fun, and more than viable, but why in order to play CQC infiltrator would you need to pass a Widow? I can play CQC with the widow just as effectively. SMG is your friend.
Certainly you can go close quarters with an SMG, and sometimes I do that event though I have a shotgun (mostly because I just don't have time to switch the weapon). Why choose shotgun? Three things, mostly...
Firstly, stunlock. You mentioned this one already. Shotgun stunlock is reliable and powerful, SMG not so much. At least, I've never stunlocked a boss character to death with an SMG.
Secondly, damage per clip. The Tempest has the highest damage per clip of the SMGs, at 700 base damage. The GPS has 1251.9 base damage, using uncharged shots. Higher damage per clip means less reloading, enabling you to take on more enemies. I can take on 3 enemies with a shotgun at once. I won't say it's easy for me, but I can do it. With an SMG? I can take 1 easily enough, but 2 sounds suicidal.
Thirdly, psychology. Every time you look at your shotgun, you remember you sacrificed the Widow for it, for the chance to be a shotgun wielding ninja. You're compelled to go into CQC as much as your skill level can possibly handle in order to justify that choice. You're almost never tempted to just sit back and snipe all day long as the Widow might tempt you. Also it's a confidence thing. Videogames have trained you to believe shotguns are extremely limited in range, but within their effective range you become an angry God dealing swift and violent judgement to everything within 5m. Shotguns give you the confidence to headbutt charging Krogan. Doing that with an SMG sounds crazy.
#43
Posté 13 septembre 2010 - 02:15
PsyrenY
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OniGanon wrote...
Thirdly, psychology. Every time you look at your shotgun, you remember you sacrificed the Widow for it, for the chance to be a shotgun wielding ninja. You're compelled to go into CQC as much as your skill level can possibly handle in order to justify that choice. You're almost never tempted to just sit back and snipe all day long as the Widow might tempt you. Also it's a confidence thing. Videogames have trained you to believe shotguns are extremely limited in range, but within their effective range you become an angry God dealing swift and violent judgement to everything within 5m. Shotguns give you the confidence to headbutt charging Krogan. Doing that with an SMG sounds crazy.
Nothing irritates me more than pew-pewing a charging krogan with the locust, only to have him respond, "try a real man's weapon!" They sure as **** don't say that when I GPS them full of buckshot.
#44
Posté 13 septembre 2010 - 12:33
demersel
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I just use carnifex in that situation, just like the ad suggests. And krogans don't say much, cause they are busy freezing to death.
Any way i get your point. shotguns make you feel more badass. I get that, more then these stupid DPS\\DPC\\PPD\\ nerd talk )))
For me it doesn't have much appeal, cause i'm used to just having a pistol and a sniper rifle from ME1., so carnifex and the widow is badass enough in my books. And i find that i really like the tempest.
Any way i get your point. shotguns make you feel more badass. I get that, more then these stupid DPS\\DPC\\PPD\\ nerd talk )))
For me it doesn't have much appeal, cause i'm used to just having a pistol and a sniper rifle from ME1., so carnifex and the widow is badass enough in my books. And i find that i really like the tempest.
#45
Posté 14 septembre 2010 - 06:06
Rusted Cage
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Demersel, sometimes you can't beat the hand cannon or phalanx!
I'm decided on CQC infiltrator for my next playthrough (just got to go through ME one more time for a Liara li save file). I'm going to give the Incisor another go: My theory is that if I build my class around close quarters fighting rather than the traditional assassin sniper build, the low ammo of the incisor will encourage CQC. Any other rifle could relax me into "sitting back".
I'm decided on CQC infiltrator for my next playthrough (just got to go through ME one more time for a Liara li save file). I'm going to give the Incisor another go: My theory is that if I build my class around close quarters fighting rather than the traditional assassin sniper build, the low ammo of the incisor will encourage CQC. Any other rifle could relax me into "sitting back".
#46
Posté 14 septembre 2010 - 07:19
Adhin
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I wouldn't discount an assassination cloaked Mattock damage wise. I'm pretty sure you can get out most of the sync during the fade period with that 75% damage boost in place. AR on Soldier lets you fire off the full thing, reload, and fire off most or all of the rest. But the A-TC is still 75% for... how long does the fade in period last, 2 seconds? thats 10-12 rounds easy out of the Mattock, if its more like 3-4 seconds then its the full thing. So lets say 10 rounds, that's 504 base damage. With no upgrades and far distance away thats 882 dmg. That's some serius damage output. More then you can put out with a single Widow blast (though you can direct that Widow blast TO there head giving you massive boost plus its all to that 1 spot). That's really the benefit of the widow, not its DPS. DPS its actually not that great.
Either way take them 10 shots, do it at close range and get the x2 dmg bonus for that, land some in the head first. You could do some serious damage but it would take a lot more skill to do regardless then just letting a shotgun blast hit em.
-edit-
Now for me personally, I have a Vanguard using an Evi/Mattock combo. No special dmg bonuses or manuvers to use and the Mattock can still work wonders. I have an Infiltrator playthrough I started up yesterday which im gonna be taking shotguns just cause my Vanguards got the Mattock. Gonna do a Centinel too taking Shotgun since my other 2 have Sniper/Mattock as secondary. Also I just love using the Evi.
-re-edit-again-
K, about 2 seconds total yeah. I did a test using Predator Pistol (chance its more like 3 seconds, but your fully visible by 2). I was able to get off 10-11 rounds with the thing. It has a 300 RPM on it, thats 5 per second. The general average for the Mattock is about 6-6.5 per second depending on how fast you can pull the trigger. So your looking at anywhere from 10-13, maybe 14 rounds with the DMG bonus from Cloak. Which is pretty damn huge.
Either way take them 10 shots, do it at close range and get the x2 dmg bonus for that, land some in the head first. You could do some serious damage but it would take a lot more skill to do regardless then just letting a shotgun blast hit em.
-edit-
Now for me personally, I have a Vanguard using an Evi/Mattock combo. No special dmg bonuses or manuvers to use and the Mattock can still work wonders. I have an Infiltrator playthrough I started up yesterday which im gonna be taking shotguns just cause my Vanguards got the Mattock. Gonna do a Centinel too taking Shotgun since my other 2 have Sniper/Mattock as secondary. Also I just love using the Evi.
-re-edit-again-
K, about 2 seconds total yeah. I did a test using Predator Pistol (chance its more like 3 seconds, but your fully visible by 2). I was able to get off 10-11 rounds with the thing. It has a 300 RPM on it, thats 5 per second. The general average for the Mattock is about 6-6.5 per second depending on how fast you can pull the trigger. So your looking at anywhere from 10-13, maybe 14 rounds with the DMG bonus from Cloak. Which is pretty damn huge.
Modifié par Adhin, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:34 .
#47
Posté 14 septembre 2010 - 08:09
RGFrog
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Well, if I wasn't going to take the Widow... I'd stick with the Mantis for sniper. Locust for mid range. And the GPS or Evi.
Mainly because both the Mantis and the shotguns will benefit from your cloak bonuses and a charged GPS even more so.
The mantis is still a viable sniper rifle when fully upgraded and in conjunction with the cloak bonus as well. Sure, you're not going to get that many boss one shots, but if you strip a little with the locust first, switch weapons, cloak and then mantis, You will get one shot kills with it.
But then, if you're not going with the Widow, I assume you're playing the infiltrator aspect over the sniper aspect of the class. In which case one shots with a sniper are probably not going to be a great concern to you.
Mainly because both the Mantis and the shotguns will benefit from your cloak bonuses and a charged GPS even more so.
The mantis is still a viable sniper rifle when fully upgraded and in conjunction with the cloak bonus as well. Sure, you're not going to get that many boss one shots, but if you strip a little with the locust first, switch weapons, cloak and then mantis, You will get one shot kills with it.
But then, if you're not going with the Widow, I assume you're playing the infiltrator aspect over the sniper aspect of the class. In which case one shots with a sniper are probably not going to be a great concern to you.
#48
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 04:16
MuteSpeech
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Wow...
Before reading this thread I'd have never thought of not picking the Widow rifle, it's just too deadly sexy. Going to have to second Pacifien with headshotting the YMIR mechs. Tach on Heavy disruptor ammo and... BOOM.
Though gotta admit the idea of a shotgun ninja is appealing.
Before reading this thread I'd have never thought of not picking the Widow rifle, it's just too deadly sexy. Going to have to second Pacifien with headshotting the YMIR mechs. Tach on Heavy disruptor ammo and... BOOM.
Though gotta admit the idea of a shotgun ninja is appealing.
#49
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 05:12
TuringPoint
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I've tried Incisor/Mattock specifically, it's ok. I find that I use my cloak a lot less and I use the assault rifle a lot, and some of my other powers like incineration or ai hacking more often. It was nice for a change of pace.
However, I began to miss the Widow's effectiveness. Should try Mantis/AR I guess. I really like the Mattock; having that or having the widow is a hard choice.
However, I began to miss the Widow's effectiveness. Should try Mantis/AR I guess. I really like the Mattock; having that or having the widow is a hard choice.
#50
Posté 15 septembre 2010 - 05:44
OniGanon
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RGFrog wrote...
Well, if I wasn't going to take the Widow... I'd stick with the Mantis for sniper. Locust for mid range. And the GPS or Evi.
Mainly because both the Mantis and the shotguns will benefit from your cloak bonuses and a charged GPS even more so.
The Viper benefits from Cloak as well. Actually, I think it benefits from it more than the Widow.
And I'm not entirely sure if the GPS charge shot benefits from the Cloak bonus or not, because the only way to get them to work together is by starting the charge before you Cloak, and releasing it doesn't break Cloak.
