70 réponses à ce sujet

[ezrafetch]

OniGanon wrote...

The Viper benefits from Cloak as well. Actually, I think it benefits from it more than the Widow.

Agreed.  The damage bonus is small enough that quantity of shots trumps quality of shots here...especially since one Widow shot auto-breaks Cloak.  Not that I especially like the Viper, but the point is there.

I played an Infiltrator with the Widow, and it was pretty ho-hum the whole time.  Lacked the killing power of the Soldier, I guess.  I'm spoiled.  Perhaps taking the shotty would have made things more fun.

[Adhin]

yeah if you go full stop with the Viper you can empty 7-8 shots with the Cloaks bonus damage. THAT pretty devastating though good luck getting all 8 in there head heh. That said, its still over 640 base damage into somethings chest. Almost double the Widow.

Widows very much a slow paced, pop and shot kinda thing. Viper lets you rip out lots of dmg and with how its refire rate works (slower then you can rapidly pull the trigger) Soldiers AR doesn't benefit it at all other then lowering how much ammo you have to use for that 5 seconds. Infiltrator on the other hand gets pure dmg increase with it, making it rather devastating.

As for going with Mattock or an AR, not using the cloak often is just people being forgetful. I often get forgetful when I use an SMG a lot with it, always forget to cloak for dmg boost. Shotgun though, cloaking to setup sexy ninja-strikes is a lot more methodical and easier to remember.

Modifié par Adhin, 15 septembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[Besetment]

I find the Viper annoying to use on an Infiltrator because of the scope time dilation. You get ~2 seconds of it and then everything suddenly speeds up which can make hitting moving targets a bit of a pain. Its not so bad on the bolt actions where you can rough aim without being scoped. I guess you could always put no points in Operative but I've tried that and you lose so many class pers that...eh. I'm completely fine with Viper on other classes like Vanguard.

I'd say it works better on a Soldier with Adrenaline Rush but 99% of the time I'd rather go Widow/Mattock. :| I dunno. Just rambling.

Modifié par Besetment, 15 septembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Adhin]

The time dilation of the soldier actually means you gain no real overall damage when using the Viper, I've pointed this out I dunno how many times. Soldier is best with the Widow/Mantis as far as that's concerned considering no one sits there pounding shots out with it so a single shot with 100% DMG from AR is worth it for an overall damage increase.

That said if you scope in and start firing IMMEDIATELY from stealth with the Infiltrator your basically lowering your damage too. You want to scope in and let the time dilation fade away so your firing in normal time. And yeah hitting moving targets is a pain with Viper, its more of a stationary rapid-fire thing. If its a BIG target like one of them Mech's, letting the Dilation fade then unloading on it ends up being tremendous damage output from cloak.

Widow/Mantis works better for the slowed, single shot to the head.

[OniGanon]

You're talking about real time DPS. In terms of game time and ammo use, you are gaining damage.

[Adhin]

Ammo use yeah, Widow, Mantis and Mattock have a huge benefit from it. The other's it makes less of a difference other then halving the ammo you consume to do the same thing. Also, less shots to get the same thing means less shots missed even with out the time Dilation. It's useful, no doubt, definitely an upgrade overall. All I'm trying to get across is the 75% from Cloak isn't lacking of impact. Having 75% damage (or even just the 40%) with out any time dilation means its pure damage output. It only alters on the 3 weapons when compared, otherwise its pure bonus.

[RGFrog]

For some reason the time dialation screws up my use of the Viper--I just can't seem to keep it aimed--so it's never used on my Inf. If i'm not going with the Widow, i'd rather take AR or shotgun training and stick with the Mantis.

However, I swear by the Viper on my adept and soldier builds and on my second vanguard.

[RGFrog]

double mint post... doh!

Modifié par RGFrog, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[lazuli]

RGFrog wrote...

For some reason the time dialation screws up my use of the Viper--I just can't seem to keep it aimed--so it's never used on my Inf. If i'm not going with the Widow, i'd rather take AR or shotgun training and stick with the Mantis.
However, I swear by the Viper on my adept and soldier builds and on my second vanguard.

This has been my experience with the Viper.  I cannot stand it on an Infiltrator, but it's great on any other class- Vanguard especially.

[Adhin]

Yeah I noticed that gives me some issues to, Its nice for a single shot but kinda wonky if your gonna be pulling off a few for how short it is. This is why I often cloak, then immediately scope in and give it the 2 seconds for it to fade away before I shoot now.

[Besetment]

Same here. Viper is the kind of gun that you need to stay zoomed in to rack up the damage which makes it incredibly annoying when you always have 2 seconds of time dilation every time you scope. I find it infuriating when you are training a moving target at head level and then suddenly your target doubles in speed so it throws off your aim completely.

I'm fine if they are moving at 50% speed all the time or 100% speed all the time. Its the sudden change at any moment right around 'now' that messes me up. I'm ok with tracking moving targets that change direction alot in other FPS games where you can have partial zoom levels but at full zoom you have limited sense of distance/direction (cuz you have like, no peripheral vision).

The class was built with percs that are only really useful with scoped single shot, high damage weapons. I don't like Viper enough to put 0 points in Operative either just to get around the time dilation. By the time you can acquire the Viper, Collector Ship is what? Maybe 1 or 2 missions away?

Its a pretty fab gun on some of the other classes though. I liked it on Vanguard but I'm starting to really love the hell out of Claymore so I've not been using Viper much these days.

Modifié par Besetment, 16 septembre 2010 - 08:38 .

[OniGanon]

I don't really have a problem with the time dilation... I can fire three shots during the slowdown, and generally the only time I fire more shots than that is on targets that are real hard to miss anyway (Scion, YMIR, Harbinger etc).

[Rusted Cage]

Thanks for all your advice, I'm sold on the CQC Infiltrator. I realise from reading the CQC Infiltrator thread that it could be hard work but I'm hoping it'll be fun.



I overlooked the viper on my first infiltrator run. I will pay closer attention this time.

[Aradace]

It's not as uncommon as you think OP. Given, the Widow is a strong rifle but the Viper has superior ammo capacity. And for me, ammo capacity > firepower. Now, if the Widow or Incisor had more than 15 rounds of fire to them (and yes, when I aim at a target I hit it and rarely miss lol) then I'd take them hands down to the Viper. But to me, the Viper just has more versatility. Im one of the folks who took AR training on their infiltrator/assassin because TC + Mattock = Damn good damage IMO lol. I typically use my Viper for normally shielded to unshielded targets(I only play on normal so this doesnt apply to those that play on Insane where every single target is shielded lol) and break out the Mattock for targets that have multiple layers of shielding. In which case I cloak, get behind them at point blank (when I can) and just lay them to waste

[OniGanon]

There is quite the learning curve to play Infiltrator in CQC, more so if you haven't played Assault Sentinel or an aggressive Soldier. Tbh it took me most of my first playthrough with the shotgun to get the hang of it because it was my first time playing aggressive and mistakes tend to be fatal.



Soooo much easier now with the GPS though.





And yeah, the Viper would probably kick the tar out of the Widow on lower difficulties.

[Aradace]

OniGanon wrote...

There is quite the learning curve to play Infiltrator in CQC, more so if you haven't played Assault Sentinel or an aggressive Soldier. Tbh it took me most of my first playthrough with the shotgun to get the hang of it because it was my first time playing aggressive and mistakes tend to be fatal.

Soooo much easier now with the GPS though.


And yeah, the Viper would probably kick the tar out of the Widow on lower difficulties.

Yea lol...I have two different Infiltrators.  One that is an Agent (simply because I had never taken the evolution that increases your para/rene scores to their utmost and wanted to see if it were any good.) and has the Widow and one that is an Assassin and uses the Viper.  I used my Agent to get through my Insanity run simply because of the Widow lol.  I attempted my Insanity run with my Soldier and Vanguard but found that the "play styles" I uses for them didnt really accomodate me getting through Insanity without wanting to pull my hair out.  Once I loaded up my Agent, things went a little more smoothly. 

Then, after that, I did it one more time with my Engineer just for shiggles (my word for ****s and giggles lol) and was able to almost blow through with my eyes closed.  Ok...sorry...that was a bit off topic lol.

[fegede]

My first infiltrator took the widow route, and it was one of the most frustrating playthrough I ever did. I'm on the xbox btw, but I just dislike sniping with an infiltrator even if I usually love snipers. Targeting aid is a pain when you try to shoot a moving target or pick up a target in a crowd and cloak is a pain when you try to snipe someone in cover because they just hide until they can see you again. Scope time dilatation is also a pain when you use the viper or when you try to take your time for a headshot. More often than not I found myself cloaking and trying to line up a shot on a merc who just went into cover, so I had to quickly pick another one who is moving out only to be pissed off by the auto aim and sudden stop of slowdown and miss my shot. When you cloak a lot from afar, your teammates die a lot because the enemies target them instead of you. When they are dead and you cloak, everybody stays in cover.... I might be more frustrated about all of this than most of the people here though, it's just because I love sniping and I hate when it doesn't work out as well as it should. I was way more accurate in ME1 even with the moving scope.

CQC makes a far better use of cloak to get in the melee range for extra dmg on top of the 75% extra dmg from assassin cloak. That is full of win imho. When your teammates die, it's almost easier because people stop moving when you cloak and you are free to get behind their cover in CQC and SMG\\shotgun their face from point blank with a huge damage increase. If you have trouble aiming when in CQC, use a squadmate power with stagger effect like pull, concussive shot, flashbang or even combat drone. Melee works too, but you lose a bit of shooting time with the cloak bonus.

You can go CQC with widow\\SMG if you don't want to take the shotgun path. it is still very viable and you can switch to sniping from time to time, or just take out a priority target or two (heavies, pyros, people on ledges) before closing in.

[XCPTNL]

fegede wrote...
You can go CQC with widow\\\\SMG if you don't want to take the shotgun path. it is still very viable and you can switch to sniping from time to time, or just take out a priority target or two (heavies, pyros, people on ledges) before closing in.

I agree. I have two infiltrators and usually play them both agressively. I took the widow for one of them and usually unload clips of tempest into enemies heads at point blank range after sneaking up on them. And I have another infiltrator with shotgun training that is equipped with the locust for the nice accuracy it provides and thus some nice midrange kills before sneaking in with the shotgun. Both are fun to play...

[brfritos]

OniGanon wrote...

...Oh, and get Squad Cryo. Don't even try to play CQC Infiltrator without it.

One of  most usefull ammo types in ME2, CQC or not.

And the most derated one.

No wonder combat classes have it. :innocent:

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

the geth shotgun is just really amazing for infiltrator AND vanguard. there's never a good reason to not use it.


I'm actually interested in whether or not claymore is worth taking anymore on vanguard or soldier...



Whats REALLY fun about infiltrator is seeing how many battles you can just stealthily avoid entirely..  

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:42 .

[mrjazzman]

god do I ever revive old threads.

Just played the collector ship twice with my first Infiltrator.
Generally I do prefer the Viper at the moment - there's nothing the widow will kill with one shot that a second or third squeeze of the Viper trigger will not also kill (and you do get like 4-5 shots out in the course of one zoom slowdown)
I found myself handling harbinger, scions and even the praetorian a bit faster on the viper run and with all the husks towards the end I even had an excuse to whip out the mattock - although assault rifles really are kind of obsolete when carrying the viper.
I DO play on normal difficulty at the moment though which admittedly is a bit too easy no matter what you do.

Now I have two saves and I wonder which one to continue. I'll probably stick with the widow and just not carry it with me as the assault rifle doesn't add much beside ammo backup which with the viper is hardly an issue.
Also I can imagine that on higher difficulties the widow starts to shine as on normal it's just plain overkill. Hell even the viper oven one-shots goons here and if I do an NG+ on hardcore or later insanity I might just need the widow

Modifié par mrjazzman, 10 avril 2013 - 01:20 .