72 réponses à ce sujet

[Berkilak]

I'm probably behind the times, but is this option bugged for the transfer over to ME2? It acts as if I let the council rot.

[upsettingshorts]

Same here. And no matter what I do with Gibbed's save editor I cant get it to recognize any other Council-death scenario other than "humanity seized political control of the galaxy."



Would be nice to get an official or even unofficial answer to this.

[Berkilak]

On a previous game, I did get the neutral outcome (human-led mixed Council). And I was even more Renegade in that game. /sigh

[apk117]

I would really like to know this as well. I do not equate prioritizing the destruction of a monolithic, world-eating ship over saving some jackass politicians to "seizing political control of the galaxy."

[Berkilak]

Especially when seizing control is a completely different option.

[upsettingshorts]

Indeed, it's an entirely different motivation:



1) Let the Council die: Cynical disposal of political rivals.

2) Concentrate on Sovereign: There's too much at stake, concentrate on the objective.



On my very first playthrough of my very first game of Mass Effect 1 I chose "Concentrate on Sovereign." I was very Paragon and did it on the assumption that if I elected to save the Council I might not win, or might win at a higher price. It was the responsible thing to do, I thought, and made it very clear to Udina and Anderson afterwords that it was not a power grab, just a tough decision with casualties.

[Berkilak]

Exactly. I tend to play as more of a utilitarian. I weigh the outcome and decide my course of action (nearly) separately from morality. This usually puts me on the Renegade side, but I often find myself on the Paragon side as well (ie. Rachni). It just seemed like the most rational thing to do, given the current resources and situation. I'll condemn thousands to death in the name of security, but I'd never infringe upon a single person's freedom.

Sad it see it equated with someone with a petty grudge.

Modifié par Berkilak, 11 septembre 2010 - 01:25 .

[Quething]

Yeah, it's badly bugged since patch... I think 1.02? It worked when the game first came out, anyway, giving you the proper intro and running the right news reports (nothing about "former Council races" or turians violating the dreadnought treaty or any of those). Now it's really screwed up, it will think you have a human Council about half the time and a multiracial Council the other half, you'll get all kinds of conflicting dialog and news reports scattered around.



I've heard you can still get to the neutral "humans seated on a multiracial council" intro if you start a new ME2 game without importing, since that's the default (weirdly). I can't verify this, because I always import, but it might be worth a try.

[Berkilak]

It's the default since it's the most "passive" (ie. no desire to save the Council, nor to let them die), and I have indeed seen it. However, I'm currently trying to build my ME3 Shepard. Just plowed through every single bloody ME1 side mission... really don't want to do it again to get my perfect file...

[Pacifien]

Can't find any of the screenshots I saw about it in the past, but there were two different intros I believe on humanity's role in a new Council. I always get the one with "human-led," but it occurs to me that I also haven't done a non-import playthrough in a long time.

Still, I just play it as an alien's perspective on what happened to the Council. You didn't concentrate on Sovereign just to give Udina the chance to play politics, but he used it as an opportunity anyway to put humanity on top. Aliens don't know what your reasons are, so they gossip about how you simply let their old Council die. Sucks, but that's life in the public eye.

[Berkilak]

There are two "human-led" outcomes.

Firstly, is the default and intended Concentrate on Sovereign! scrawl (human-led alien Council):

In 2183, the heart of the galactic community suffered a devastating attack.

The Citadel space station was invaded by a synthetic geth army attempting to open a portal for the Reapers: enormous machines that eradicate all organic civilization every 50,000 years. Commander Shepard led the defense, but the Citadel Council was lost.

Now, the new human-led Council attempts to quell rumors of the Reapers' return. Hoping to ease public concern, they've sent Commander Shepard and the starship Normandy to wipe out all remaining geth resistance.

Second is the Renegade Let the Council die. scrawl (entirely human Council) that we Concentrators shouldn't be getting, but are:

One month after the devastating geth attack on the Citadel, humanity seized political control of the galaxy.

Now the human-led Council is forced to respond to evidence that the Reapers -- enormous machines that eradicate all advanced civilizations every 50,000 years — have returned. To quell the rumors, the Council has sent Commander Shepard and the Normandy to wipe out the last pockets of geth resistance. Officially, they blame the invasion on the geth and their leader, a rogue Spectre.

But for those who know the truth, the search for answers is just beginning.

Modifié par Berkilak, 11 septembre 2010 - 03:02 .

[Berkilak]

Hmm... according to some digging, those who are primarily Renegade will receive the "Let the Council die" scrawl regardless if they pick Concentrate on Sovereign or the aforementioned.



Only Paragons who pick Concentrate on Sovereign get the neutral ending.



Disappointing.

[Quething]

As a paragon who picked Concentrate on Sovereign, I haven't managed to get the neutral ending since the first time I played the game.



That only a paragon import *should* get the neutral ending only makes sense, though. If you play renegade and let the Council die, Udina gets all "let's take over" regardless of what you say. You can argue with him but ultimately it's not your decision (for that matter, neither is whether Udina or Anderson gets the seat; they'd have been perfectly justified in not giving us that choice in ME2). Conversely, a paragon with a dead Council never even hears the suggestion to start an all-human Council. The ME2 game as intended is consistent with the ME1 epilogue.

[Berkilak]

That, then, is quite puzzling. A friend of mine completed the game solely to kill the turian council member. I hate to be lumped into that same group when I picked a different option...

[Zeus_Deus]

Am I the only one who thinks that, chain-of-command-wise, the decision whether or not to save the council should've been made by Admiral of the fleet Steven Hackett

[upsettingshorts]

Zeus_Deus wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks that, chain-of-command-wise, the decision whether or not to save the council should've been made by Admiral of the fleet Steven Hackett

I think Spectres make the chain of command ambiguous - as they more or less represent the tip of the spear of the Citadel Council's authority - and the Systems Alliance is answerable to the Council, but you do touch on a pretty good point:

Hackett - being in space at the head of the fleet - probably has a better grasp of the situation than you do, having just gotten done with a firefight in the middle of the Presidium Tower.  Shepard really isn't in a position to determine what the best course of action is.

Edit: However!  Given the information delivered by Vigil on Ilos, Shepard and his team - specifically the two who went with him - are the only ones who truly know what is at stake.  So, it being Shepard's mission - in other words his "show," there is a good reason why Hackett would defer to his instructions.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 septembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[Zeus_Deus]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Zeus_Deus wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks that, chain-of-command-wise, the decision whether or not to save the council should've been made by Admiral of the fleet Steven Hackett

I think Spectres make the chain of command ambiguous - as they more or less represent the tip of the spear of the Citadel Council's authority - and the Systems Alliance is answerable to the Council, but you do touch on a pretty good point:

Hackett - being in space at the head of the fleet - probably has a better grasp of the situation than you do, having just gotten done with a firefight in the middle of the Presidium Tower.  Shepard really isn't in a position to determine what the best course of action is.

Edit: However!  Given the information delivered by Vigil on Ilos, Shepard and his team - specifically the two who went with him - are the only ones who truly know what is at stake.  So, it being Shepard's mission - in other words his "show," there is a good reason why Hackett would defer to his instructions.  

Because Shephard knows what is truly at stake, surely the order must be to attack straight away instead of holding the fleet back.

The data file he received from Vigil only gave him temporary control of the Citadel - There is really no way to determine how quickly it would've taken Sovereign to regain control of the Citadel and open the relay.

And from a tactical point of view, it would surely be better to attack whilst the Geth are occupied shooting the
Destiny Ascension.

[upsettingshorts]

Thats why, like I said earlier, in my first game - a Paragon one - I told the fleet to concentrate on Sovereign. The Council and the Destiny Ascension are important, but killing Sovereign is more important.

[GamerJ]

the destiny ascension can maby be helpfull in me3 to fight the reapers XP atleast if the reaper invasion is not a bad dream of shepard '

[Miramar52]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

On my very first playthrough of my very first game of Mass Effect 1 I chose "Concentrate on Sovereign." I was very Paragon and did it on the assumption that if I elected to save the Council I might not win, or might win at a higher price. It was the responsible thing to do, I thought, and made it very clear to Udina and Anderson afterwords that it was not a power grab, just a tough decision with casualties.

I did the same thing. I was mostly paragon and I chose the neutral "Concentrate on Sovereign" option because I was afraid that he could destroy the Citadel and kill millions of lives in the process. I just wish the neutral option was acknowledged in ME2, since it makes my Shep look so heartless.

[stewie1974]

RE: Destiny Accension....usefull in ME3.

anyone catch the size of that reaper invasion fleet pictured at the end of mass effect 2?

It wasn't a couple of hundred, or a couple of thousand, it looked like "millions" of them...i thought it was rain or something untill i was like.... hey there is no rain in space....

So given the overall size of the invasion fleet...... no amount of tech is gonna blow them out the sky...even the biggest coalition force of every ally in the galaxy could muster enough fleet firepower to take out that fleet...whats the chances the solution will be in the form of a "hack" or a "virus"

This would be keeping with the "not using mass effect tech" to defeat the reapers and also the idea of something small defeating something big... which is a sci-fi trope ....war of the worlds.....etc.

RE Main Thread: I saved the council cuz we are going to need all the help we can get come reaper invasion.

Modifié par stewie1974, 13 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[Zeus_Deus]

stewie1974 wrote...

RE: Destiny Accension....usefull in ME3.

anyone catch the size of that reaper invasion fleet pictured at the end of mass effect 2?

It wasn't a couple of hundred, or a couple of thousand, it looked like "millions" of them...i thought it was rain or something untill i was like.... hey there is no rain in space....

So given the overall size of the invasion fleet...... no amount of tech is gonna blow them out the sky...even the biggest coalition force of every ally in the galaxy could muster enough fleet firepower to take out that fleet...whats the chances the solution will be in the form of a "hack" or a "virus"

Well Sovereign did say - "Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom"

[upsettingshorts]

The most interesting part of that image - it actually looked like hundreds to me not millions, but that's immaterial - is that each one potentially represents just one 50,000 year cycle.

That's um, a lot of genocides.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 septembre 2010 - 02:57 .

[stewie1974]

http://i132.photobuc...us/reapers2.jpg


well all them little specs look like more than enough. The battle of the citadel had trouble with like loads of ships taking out just one.

Needless to say, I doubt a space battle is going to be anything other than a diversionary tatic as you attempt to hack a reaper and send a virus of somesort.... it's also a "foot mission" too... no doubt inside a reaper... it's either that, or you are gonna have to blow the mass effect generators on like hundreds of different reapers lol.

[brfritos]

Berkilak wrote...

Hmm... according to some digging, those who are primarily Renegade will receive the "Let the Council die" scrawl regardless if they pick Concentrate on Sovereign or the aforementioned.

Only Paragons who pick Concentrate on Sovereign get the neutral ending.

Disappointing.

No, it's really dependent of your choice.

I have a Renegade Shepard with the Council alive and got the "good intro".

The word is in parenthesis because there's no good intro, the two of them are pretty dark.