46 réponses à ce sujet

[ANDY5151]

So I would like to play a Paladin that is at LEAST close to a pure paladin....is this even viable?  I have never really gone deeply into neverwinter nights altghough I am familiar with the basic d and rules (thank you kotor).  Anyways I know going PURE paladin is not the way to go soooo what should i multiclass that does not go too far away from a paladin...like a cleric favored soul etc...

[nicethugbert]

Kaedrin's class Pack has a lot of Paladin content.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Nothing wrong with that. I am sure some idealist who does the perfect build will disagree, but you will do ok in the OC. And you have companions who will cover anything you lack.



Just go pure paladin. I get some decent charisma to boost your saves and go for divine might which gives a bonus to damage. Remember you get some buffs too, so you can hit a little harder. ( kaedrin really likes paladins so using his content helps a lot )

[ANDY5151]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Nothing wrong with that. I am sure some idealist who does the perfect build will disagree, but you will do ok in the OC. And you have companions who will cover anything you lack.

Just go pure paladin. I get some decent charisma to boost your saves and go for divine might which gives a bonus to damage. Remember you get some buffs too, so you can hit a little harder. ( kaedrin really likes paladins so using his content helps a lot )

I could ya I just wanted to know if there was any decent cross class that you could sprinkle in with a paladin

[nicethugbert]

I think Stormlord will work.

[MANoob]

ANDY5151 wrote...
I could ya I just wanted to know if there was any decent cross class that you could sprinkle in with a paladin

Sorcerer or favored soul. With 2-5 paladin. These are the strongest paladin builds.

On a more serious note, in official campaigns you will do just fine with a pure paladin.

[Thorsson64]

In the OC you will do "fine" with just about anything. However a pure Paladin will be a drag on your party. They're just not very good. All the real goodies can be got within 5 levels, after that it's all meh (although Kaedrin's does bring them some lurve).



If you really want Paladin though, you could consider Divine Champion. It's not Paladin-specific, but it does work well. Possibly Neverwinter Nine as well, or Harper Agent (not generally recommendable, but it does open up some useful skills).

[Haplose]

Yeah, a straight Paladin should work just fine in the OC.

Kaedrin's pack gives them way more spellcasting options (most of them still short-lived effects though).

Modifié par Haplose, 11 septembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[The Fred]

You could take a couple of fighter levels if you wanted some bonus feats. Perhaps to get Weapon Specialisation. Alternatively, there's the ever-popular Paladin X/Sorcerer 1/Red Dragon Disciple 10, for big bonuses to Strength (and others, including a Cha bonus) and some RDD immunities and things. It doesn't make much sense from a role-playing, flavour point of view, though. Note though that you will need to be a human or race with "Favoured class: Any" in its description or you'll take an XP penalty from having a paladin level higher than your other class levels.



As mentioned, PrCs like Divine Champion can work too.

[ANDY5151]

Well I was looking on Kaedrin's site that has different builds and I saw a Gold Dwarf with Paladin/Fighter/Dwarven Defender mixed in. I am really into dwarves and Paladin tanks what do you guys think of that build?

[ANDY5151]

here is the build http://nwn2db.com/bu...13295&version=1

[nicethugbert]

You're better off making a cleric.

[The Fred]

I don't claim to be an expert on builds, but to me that one looks more or less OK. I wouldn't say that having 9 Paladin levels is exactly optimum - Remove Disease is kinda not that big a deal imo, and it doesn't get you any extra spells or anything. 5 and 10 are probably better break-points. Maybe take more Fighter levels or something? A couple of Divine Champion levels might work, too (AFAIK, Sacred Defence stacks, and the bonus feat is nice).

I don't normally play melee characters myself, but to be honest, something like that'd probably do fine for the OC.

[nicethugbert]

Really, you're better off playing a cleric.

What does a 12 wis and 9 paladin levels get you for spells? You get 1 first level spell at 4 caster levels. You don't have a single significant paladin ability that lasts a long time or can be used often. It's all low use, short duration, weak abilities.

The best thing you get from paladin is Aura of Courage at level 3. You can get that from Good Domain at level 1 with a cleric. But, even that does not matter because fear effects are not used.

Smite Evil does not matter until epic level. Divine Champion is only good in epic levels to get more bonus feats. Prior to that, they have little if anything worth taking in their bonus feat list.

Argh! Paladin of Moradin

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 septembre 2010 - 04:58 .

[dunniteowl]

Hey last I checked, Paladins also get Immunity from DIsease (handy with ghouls, zombies and mummies, fyi), Immune to Fear (handy against mummies, wights, spectres, shades and vampires, fyi) and that whole Laying on of Hands thingy.

Of course, in a cRPG, all that stuff has a limit to useability compared to clerics. I remember ye olden days of cRPGs, though, when the mummy comes out and the Fighther, Thief, Ranger and Cleric are all running and screaming in fear while the Paladin hammerd away with his mighty two handed sword alone. Good times.

What? Where was the mage? I dunno, I think she crapped her drawers and was paralyzed with fear as I recall it. After that, you can imagine, she was definitely the butt of jokes for some time.

dno

[nicethugbert]

I don't remember having problems with disease in any of the OEI modules. You can just rest it away. A cleric can cure it with spell or heal kit if it's worse than that.

[MANoob]

here is the build http://nwn2db.com/bu...13295&version=1

Rather weak tbh, some bad building mistakes.

The best thing you get from paladin is Aura of Courage at level 3. You can get that from Good Domain at level 1 with a cleric.

- That's just wrong. Actually best features of a paladin are divine grace (lvl 2) and turn undead (lvl 4, for divine feats obviously). Admittedly clerics get the latter, but not the first. Also, Holy Sword is a paladin only spell which is actually good for campaigns where you fight mainly evil foes (and with craft wand your whole party can benefit from it!). It's not enough to justify a paladin from a powergaming perspective, but it's a pro.

Argh! Paladin of Moradin

Combat casting, but no persistent spell ^^?

Modifié par MANoob, 11 septembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[nicethugbert]

Divine Grace is another reason why Paladins mature late. It's also another reason why paladin is a splash class. If Divine Grace were paladin level dependent, no one would bother with it. Plus, clerics get +save spells that compete with it, as well as immunities.



Divine feats are overrated until epic levels, maybe a little earlier.



Here is the problem I have with persistent spell for clerics. There are only a few spells worth persisting and the best of them is Divine Favor. The rest of them last long enough when you can persist them so that it's not worth sacrificing a 7/8/9 level slot for them. So, it all comes down to persisting one spell, divine favor. But, by the time you can persist Divine Favor you have a lot of extended and regular castings of it. So, unless there is a problem casting an extended or regular Divine Favor in combat or you get so much combat between rests that you run out of extended and regular divine favor, the only reason to take persistent spell is that you feel comfortable not having to cast divine favor despite having plenty of slots for it.

[MANoob]

Divine Grace is another reason why Paladins mature late. It's also another reason why paladin is a splash class

Well, I've also said that paladins are a 5 level class max if you go for power. Hovewer, divine grace can help even early on, and as FS you can have it on top of cleric buffs without actually affecting you stat distribution (but for FS it's probably a good idea to get it later so you do not delay your caster progression much). That's a fact: divine grace is a paladin's signature ability in nwn, without it no one would even consider multiclassing with them.

Divine feats are overrated until epic levels, maybe a little earlier.

I was defending this point in the other thread here as well. However, we are not specifically talking about non epic characters, are we?

Here is the problem I have with persistent spell for clerics. There are only a few spells worth persisting and the best of them is Divine Favor. The rest of them last long enough when you can persist them so that it's not worth sacrificing a 7/8/9 level slot for them. So, it all comes down to persisting one spell, divine favor. But, by the time you can persist Divine Favor you have a lot of extended and regular castings of it. So, unless there is a problem casting an extended or regular Divine Favor in combat or you get so much combat between rests that you run out of extended and regular divine favor, the only reason to take persistent spell is that you feel comfortable not having to cast divine favor despite having plenty of slots for it.

Surely you can persist some nice domain spells like haste or C/C too (C/C is not generally needed for PvM though). I beleive prayer has a relatively short duration as well. As for divine favor, look at it this way: every time you're casting it you're wasting a round. If you use non extended divine favor you waste 1 round out of 11. With extended you waste 1 round out of 21. So even with extended version, having to recast it drops your overall efficiency by about 5%. Considering only this, persisting divine favour gets your character +5% actions. I'm sure there are much worse feats to take (you just took one of them - combat casting).

Modifié par MANoob, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:32 .

[nicethugbert]

MANoob wrote...

Divine Grace is another reason why Paladins mature late. It's also another reason why paladin is a splash class

Well, I've also said that paladins are a 5 level class max if you go for power. Hovewer, divine grace can help even early on, and as FS you can have it on top of cleric buffs without actually affecting you stat distribution (but for FS it's probably a good idea to get it later so you do not delay your caster progression much). That's a fact: divine grace is a paladin's signature ability in nwn, without it no one would even consider multiclassing with them.

Make us a demonstration build?

MANoob wrote...

Divine feats are overrated until epic levels, maybe a little earlier.

I was defending this point in the other thread here as well. However, we are not specifically talking about non epic characters, are we?

Are we bothering to clarify when all these advantages come into play?

MANoob wrote...

Here is the problem I have with persistent spell for clerics. There are only a few spells worth persisting and the best of them is Divine Favor. The rest of them last long enough when you can persist them so that it's not worth sacrificing a 7/8/9 level slot for them. So, it all comes down to persisting one spell, divine favor. But, by the time you can persist Divine Favor you have a lot of extended and regular castings of it. So, unless there is a problem casting an extended or regular Divine Favor in combat or you get so much combat between rests that you run out of extended and regular divine favor, the only reason to take persistent spell is that you feel comfortable not having to cast divine favor despite having plenty of slots for it.

Surely you can persist some nice domain spells like haste or C/C too (C/C is not generally needed for PvM though). I beleive prayer has a relatively short duration as well. As for divine favor, look at it this way: every time you're casting it you're wasting a round. If you use non extended divine favor you waste 1 round out of 11. With extended you waste 1 round out of 21. So even with extended version, having to recast it drops your overall efficiency by about 5%. Considering only this, persisting divine favour gets your character +5% actions. I'm sure there are much worse feats to take (you just took one of them - combat casting).

When does it get this advantage and is it worth more than having a crucial spell interupted in combat?

[painofdungeoneternal]

I could say you are better off playing a cleric to about every class in the game. The issue there is the cleric.



The problem with persisting divine favor, is if it gets bugged, it ends up not working until you get a chance to rest or the 24 hour duration wears off.



There are a few others worth persisting for clerics. Lesser favor of the deity or something like that and 3-4 others. I've not done it much myself but i know enough watching my players that persistant spells are well worth it. ( Where for arcane spells they are not really worth much ).



I would just do paladin mainly, take some divine champion ( goes with it ). One thing might be fun is a monk/paladin, little different flavor but you might even go the sacred fist route with it. ( not sure if that would work or not but try to think outside the box of paladins wearing armor all the time. )

[MANoob]

Make us a demonstration build?

May do later, now just searched for a decent one, this one will do : http://nwn2db.com/bu...=339&version=1. Apart from getting paladin levels and divine feats too early (when they are not very useful and delay casting) it's fine imo.

Are we bothering to clarify when all these advantages come into play?

Usually at/near epic levels, so what?

When does it get this advantage and is it worth more than having a crucial spell interupted in combat?

Your build does not even have full concentration ranks to begin with, wouldn't it be cheaper to just max it out and not burn feats on it? Besides, a cleric buffed with persisted/extended spells hardly even needs casting something in combat.

Modifié par MANoob, 11 septembre 2010 - 11:31 .

[ANDY5151]

Thanks for all the help guys I have been educating myself...but I must say I am a bit overwhelmed haha...I am a Veteran MMO guy (WoW, SWG etc) and play rpgs like kotor and DA but man nothing is this complicated....is there a list of what classes get what and when? because I have ZERO clue how to multiclass well. I am sure the manuel has it so i will look but if anyone can point me to a chart.....thanks.

[I_Raps]

The manual is best since it's right at hand, but the nwn2wiki has most everything online.

Modifié par I_Raps, 12 septembre 2010 - 12:04 .

[The Fred]

Paladins get a lot that Clerics don't... higher BAB, higher health, immunity to disease (not such a big deal) and fear (a slightly bigger deal, though with high will saves not as massive a one), Divine Grace etc. Yes Clerics, with Divine Favour, can easily compete with them or any melee class but that's Clerics for you. If you want to play an actual Paladin, though, there's no reason why not. Still, I would go Monk/Paladin/Sacred Fist with Shadowdancer, Swashbuckler or Divine Champion, though, just for kicks. ;-)

Modifié par The Fred, 12 septembre 2010 - 01:57 .