17 réponses à ce sujet

[keesio74]

So what the does the game assume happened? My character refused the dark ritual and did the ultimate sacrifice. I then imported the character into Witch Hunt (actually I imported to Awakening and then Witch Hunt) and since my character is alive, it assumes I didn't do the sacrifice. But when talking to Morrigan, she correctly accuses me of refusing the dark ritual. So what does the game think happened? If I am alive and refused the ritual then the only other option is Loghain (I spared Loghain and made hardened Alistair king) should have taken the sacrifice instead. But I saw him in Awakening. Is it just a big missing plot hole that we should just dismiss? I'm wondering how DA2 will handle the events.

[Zjarcal]

Well, you can't blame the game for going bananas if you decide to import a dead character into either Awakening or Witch Hunt. I'd say that WH assumes the other grey warden did the sacrifice.

For best results, leave dead wardens dead.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 11 septembre 2010 - 01:51 .

[Gavinthelocust]

Zjarcal wrote...

For best results, leave dead wardens dead.

I'm putting that on a t-shirt.

[MKDAWUSS]

I can only hope DA2 recognizes the Ultimate Sacrifice. Not that I've ever done it, though

[Shiratori]

I guess I can try that scenario later though my guess is she'll say I didn't do the DR with her (even with the patch).



I did try the Orlesian Warden and actually got 1 new bit of information out of her. Still cryptic mind you, but at least it was different than anything else she said.

[Maconbar]

Shiratori wrote...

I guess I can try that scenario later though my guess is she'll say I didn't do the DR with her (even with the patch).

I did try the Orlesian Warden and actually got 1 new bit of information out of her. Still cryptic mind you, but at least it was different than anything else she said.

Pretty interesting information.

[Shiratori]

Oops, right, sorry about that. Got side tracked here at work.



When Morrigan warns about Flemeth, you can have the new Warden ask if Flemeth was responsible for the blight. Morrigan's response is "more than you'd be willing to believe."



Like I said, still cryptic, but that's the first time I even seen anything like that hinted much less mentioned, which could make it more curious given the revelation from Awakening that the Architect awoke the archdemon. Could be related, maybe not, who knows, The specifics could be in that gift we got, but even that is a "wait and see" (and we'll likely be waiting for awhile before we do see those contents). So, something else to consider now with dear Flemeth.

[Maconbar]

Shiratori wrote...

Oops, right, sorry about that. Got side tracked here at work.

When Morrigan warns about Flemeth, you can have the new Warden ask if Flemeth was responsible for the blight. Morrigan's response is "more than you'd be willing to believe."

Like I said, still cryptic, but that's the first time I even seen anything like that hinted much less mentioned, which could make it more curious given the revelation from Awakening that the Architect awoke the archdemon. Could be related, maybe not, who knows, The specifics could be in that gift we got, but even that is a "wait and see" (and we'll likely be waiting for awhile before we do see those contents). So, something else to consider now with dear Flemeth.

In another thread I threw out the idea that Flemeth was responsible for Awakening the Architect. Granted there is no real evidence supporting this theory.

Also Flemeth knew that the Blight was coming.

[keesio74]

Shiratori wrote...

I guess I can try that scenario later though my guess is she'll say I didn't do the DR with her (even with the patch).

I actually already did. Hence why question because I don't know what the game now assumes.

Basically I did:
-Have female warden who spared Loghain, married (hardended) Alistair and Anora, refused DR and died killing the archdemon.
-Imported into Awakening. Saw both cameos of king Alistair and Loghain in Awakening. Since both are alive also, it means no wardens died (besides Riordan) and that the game makes it so that someone must have done the DR.
-Imported into Witch Hunt. Morrigan correctly accuses me of betraying her by refusing her DR offer. This would contridict what Awakening assumes happens.

So Witch Hunt knows I refused the DR. But I am still alive. So if the game will try to stick with logic, it has to make it  that Loghain died killing the archdemon (and ignore Awakening)?

Modifié par keesio74, 11 septembre 2010 - 03:37 .

[TJPags]

To the OP - there is no logical resolution to your situation. Because, basically, what you did was not logical - allowed, certainly, but not logical.



Loghain and Alistair are in Awakening because neither of them died - you did. You're the one who shouldn't be there.



And Morrigan, in my bugged WH game, accused me of turning down the DR (like you, although I had actually done it) and in fact made a comment about not understanding why I was still alive - which makes sense, since, as in your playthrough, YOU did the US, so Alistair and/or Loghain SHOULD be alive - she wouldn't wonder about that - and YOU should be dead.



So there was a comment about the apparent illogic of a dead character coming to confront her.

[keesio74]

TJPags wrote...

To the OP - there is no logical resolution to your situation. Because, basically, what you did was not logical - allowed, certainly, but not logical.

Yeah I totally understand the illogic of it all. Heck, bioware even commented that you have to be willing to suspend logic if you import your dead warden to Awakening.

But now that your decisions are going to impact the storyline in DA2, i'm just curious what flags would get imported for my save. Maybe it will just be an illogical set of flags where everyone is alive.

[Kaiser Shepard]

All in all they 'should have' - pardon my "sense of entitlement" - solved this paradox with Awakening, either by allowing the Origins Warden to somehow be resurrected by a party who will benefit from his continued existance (Morrigan, Flemeth, the Wardens or something higher-up) or by letting the Orlesian Warden continue in a world shaped by an Origins one.



The former would only need a short cutscene at the beginning and perhaps a few extra lines later on, whilst I assume the latter would require a larger part of the script to be rewritten.



From my perspective, a Project Lazarus 2.0 might be a little cheap to pull off AFTER the decision to sacrifice your character (and after ME2 a few months before), but it would also keep future paradoxes to a minimum while allowing the +/- 20% that went Ultimate Sacrifice with their main/canon Warden to continue the story of their favorite character.

[TJPags]

keesio74 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

To the OP - there is no logical resolution to your situation. Because, basically, what you did was not logical - allowed, certainly, but not logical.

Yeah I totally understand the illogic of it all. Heck, bioware even commented that you have to be willing to suspend logic if you import your dead warden to Awakening.

But now that your decisions are going to impact the storyline in DA2, i'm just curious what flags would get imported for my save. Maybe it will just be an illogical set of flags where everyone is alive.

Good question.  Obviously, I don't have the answer. 

BUT - and you may not like this - IMO, if they really want to ensure some kind of continuity, they should only import your decisions in Origins in that situation.  The reason is that, by resurrecting your dead PC, you kind of suspended or broke the actual storyline you created.  The only ways to resolve that are either ignoring that you did that - which kind of leads to the situations you have in Awakening and WH - or by pretending it didn't happen, and not importing any flags that occurred after Origins.

For continuity, I think they should pretend Awakening, etc. never happened for those characters, but I understand that for many who chose to do that (import a dead warden) that would bother the hell out of them (to put it mildly, which is sort of why they allowed you to do it in the first place).

Really, though, it's a dilema, all right.  But that's just my 5 cents (inflation and all that)

[Obadiah]

I don't understand why the developers didn't just allow players to import the dead Warden's save, so their choices are persistent, but then force players to create a new character.

The importing dead characters options is weird, but I would have guessed that the game just assumed you had the other guy (Alistair or Loghain) give the death blow.

Modifié par Obadiah, 11 septembre 2010 - 04:56 .

[TJPags]

Obadiah wrote...

I don't understand why the developers didn't just allow players to import the dead Warden's save, so their choices are persistent, but then force players to create a new character.

The importing dead characters options is weird, but I would have guessed that the game just assumed you had the other guy (Alistair or Loghain) give the death blow.

Well, you do have that choice - play with an Orlesian warden.  Not the same as creating a new character, but sort of.

And the game didn't - and shouldn't have - assumed that.  If you put Alistair on the throne, and the game "assumes" he died, than Anora is Queen . . .which people who made Alistair king wouldn't want.  For people who saved Loghain, they'd be pissed that the game "assumes" he died.  So making that kind of assumption would have been a bad idea, IMO.

[Monica21]

Obadiah wrote...

I don't understand why the developers didn't just allow players to import the dead Warden's save, so their choices are persistent, but then force players to create a new character.

The importing dead characters options is weird, but I would have guessed that the game just assumed you had the other guy (Alistair or Loghain) give the death blow.

I thought the same until I played Awakening. You're locked into what's happening in Amaranthine, and there's no reference nor any need to reference what happened to the Warden. There could be a throwaway line from Varel or someone else, but it's not like you get the chance to see your statue or the effects of your choices. If you play an Orlesian Warden, there's no real reason to reference you as dead because killing the Archdemon played out how it was supposed to. I would have preferred that they just prevent you from importing a dead Warden, rather than somehow magically surviving.

[keesio74]

I'm curious... if you create a new warden in Awakening, who greets you in the beginning - King Alistair or Queen Anora?  I'm guessing that Bioware would make Alistair the default if there is no import.

[Megami Nekohime]

I agree that they could have easily flagged the warden as dead for post-archdemon campaigns and it would cause you to create a new warden as if you started with no data. Then make it only import your decision results that affect the world like DA2 does. I'm not sure how that would work if you played a campaign that came before the archdemon's death after playing one that came after it's death. That might certainly cause an issue.