24 réponses à ce sujet

[JnEricsonx]

For those of us who don't want to/risk modding our X360 save files?   From a graphics standpoint, I hate how you're using Barrier, then use Singularity, but the visual effect of Barrier poofs. 

[RGFrog]

There's no risk. BW specifically stated that you could mod the save without ruining your account.

Plenty of information here.

Otherwise, it's got uses. But mostly as a last second OMG life saver.

I don't know that there is an ideal bonus power for an adept. They are all useful in different ways depending on your playstyle. Right now, I'm spamming ED.  I used to use singularity the most. I use throw and/or pull more often now, too and singularity less and less.

[JaegerBane]

I would probably say Barrier is the ideal bonus power, as it really extends the leeway you get for playing the Adept agressively (which, in my opinion, the Adept disproportionately benefits from). The sheer resiliance it confers combined with it's complete lack of animation means it's one of the most effective 'OMG-panic!' powers in the game.

[Kronner]

Yeah, Barrier is pretty awesome. Shepard activates it "at will" - you can be stunned, flamed by the destroyer, whatever - it will still activate. This makes it better than GSB/Fortification imho.

[Khuutra]

I wouldn't describe it as ideal, but it depends on the difficulty you're playing on. Me, I'm loving Stasis.

[JaegerBane]

Khuutra wrote...

I wouldn't describe it as ideal, but it depends on the difficulty you're playing on. Me, I'm loving Stasis.

Stasis is a great power but, for similar reasons to Reave, it probably isn't the greatest of powers to use on an Adept. In many ways it mimics what Heavy Singularity can manage, but only one target at a time with a longer cooldown.

Yeah, it does work on titans like YMIRs and the Human-Reaper hybrid when singularity does not... but neither enemy ever truly struck me as a particular problem for the Adept.

[Khuutra]

Really? Shoot, taking a YMIR out of a fight while still throwing around Singularities every which-a-way is a lot of fun. I've found it useful for locking down multiple krogan (Stasis + SIngularity), locking down bosses while I kill all the grunt-level enemies, setting up doom-shots to one-shot tough enemies with the Phalanx...



I also like Energy Drain. If any enemy around you has shields or is synthetic, it's almost (not quite) as useful as Barrier defensively while also having offensive applications. For me, every Adept ability should be focused toward either CC or murder. Stasis and ED fit the bill for my needs.

[JaegerBane]

Khuutra wrote...

Really? Shoot, taking a YMIR out of a fight while still throwing around Singularities every which-a-way is a lot of fun. I've found it useful for locking down multiple krogan (Stasis + SIngularity), locking down bosses while I kill all the grunt-level enemies, setting up doom-shots to one-shot tough enemies with the Phalanx...

To be honest, I've found Krogan to be neither here nor there for an Adept. A few shots from a phalanx and then pull and boom, he's either warp fodder and or you can give him a good Throw-punch off over yonder. You certainly don't need Stasis for them.

Stasis' only real place is boss-level enemies, and while it has its uses in that regard, the number of times that you face a boss that is immune to singularity and for some reason, you can't use heavy weapons on him is relatively low. I've generally found Barrier to be a far better 'OMG' panic button in such situations as it effects function against anyone who means you harm rather than just one enemy.

I also like Energy Drain. If any enemy around you has shields or is synthetic, it's almost (not quite) as useful as Barrier defensively while also having offensive applications. For me, every Adept ability should be focused toward either CC or murder. Stasis and ED fit the bill for my needs.

If you're playing a traditional Adept, yeah. I generally prefer a more vanguard-ish Adept (see my sig) and hence, I prefer to address the Adept's major weaknesses rather than saturate their CC abilities.

[OniGanon]

Personally I don't think the defense Barrier provides is really worth the cooldown when playing caster. You can play Adept as a sort of Assault Sentinel wannabe if you do nothing but spam Barrier every time it's up with the occasional Pull here and there. But if I wanted to play Assault Sentinel I'd just go ahead and use the Sentinel to do it.



Can be nice as an oh crap button though, especially in the early levels.

[Khuutra]

Eeeehhhh, I'm not good enough at Adept to play anythig but traditional, yet, especially on Insanity. All I know is Stasis has saved my bacon a few times, especially during Mordin's loyalty mission. And it completely trivializes any Collector mission involving platforms.

And I've found quite a few bosses manage to free themselves from Singularity after only a few seconds. Stasis, even with reduced duration, still gives you the benefit of them falling down and having to get back up. More, the idea is that you Stasis bosses while using Singularity on enemies against whom it is more effective.

I used Barrier at the start of my Adept run, but I would never go back to it.

Modifié par Khuutra, 11 septembre 2010 - 01:58 .

[JaegerBane]

OniGanon wrote...

Personally I don't think the defense Barrier provides is really worth the cooldown when playing caster. You can play Adept as a sort of Assault Sentinel wannabe if you do nothing but spam Barrier every time it's up with the occasional Pull here and there. But if I wanted to play Assault Sentinel I'd just go ahead and use the Sentinel to do it.

It's not so much playing an 'assault sentinel wannabe', it's more that biotics generally function better at close range (at least, class biotics do). Travel times are reduced, potential interceptions are less, disabled enemies are much easier to take advantage of, etc.

'Course, close range brings with it issues like personal safety - but barrier covers that. Particularly late game, where it's essentially got a cooldown of 6 secs.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

My Adept uses Energy Drain. It makes it easier to deal with shielded enemies and set up more biotic combos.

[PsyrenY]

For Adepts, I recommend Energy Drain, Warp/AP Ammo or Stasis. Obviously Stasis is the roleplayer's choice, though you can justify an Adept using it. (Loyal Tali mods your omnitool for you as a show of gratitude or something.)

As OG said, Barrier has too long a cooldown for regular use on an Adept, and if you're not using your bonus power, chances are there's no need to have it. I find Barrier fits better on Vanguards - Cast it once and charge when your boosted shields are almost empty to refill it.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:52 .

[Bozorgmehr]

There's a lot more to Barrier than the holy crap button; first, you can activate it before any fight providing a big shield bonus (no cd issues here, no matter if you have any cd bonuses) this allows the use of other powers without the urgent need to get cover. This doesn't change or interfere with any Adept playstyle.

Suggesting Barrier turns an Adept in a Sentinel wannabe is nonsense, Barrier provides same defensive bonus plus Adept can use much better powers to control the battlefield. Barrier really shines getting up close though - allowing Adepts to fight like Vanguards. Heavy Barrier will boost shields like 3 Heavy Charge would (pretty damn good protection).



Basic tactics are to use Barrier before a fight; use biotic (in synergy with squadmate) powers while moving towards enemy positions; use Barrier to stay alive and use other powers whenever possible (much of the time). With Barrier Adepts can move through levels on par or even faster than most of the other classes; without Barrier Adepts have to hide (cowardly) behind cover most of the time.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

If you want to kill stuff with your powers rather than with your guns barrier is not the optimal bonus power for adepts.

[numotsbane]

Barrier is definitely an option, but its not the definite option. just watch Bozorgmehrs vids and you'll see that it can fundamentally alter your playstyle. or you can just use it as a panic button. its certainly the most popular of the bonus powers for the adept according to my polls, followed by warp ammo, but I wouldn't rule out the other options.

[OniGanon]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Suggesting Barrier turns an Adept in a Sentinel wannabe is nonsense, Barrier provides same defensive bonus plus Adept can use much better powers to control the battlefield. 

Man I've seen your vids. As impressive as they are, you play very much like an Assault Sentinel; lots of Barrier spam with some Throws here and there.

With Optimystic on this one- best bonus powers for caster Adept are Warp Ammo, Stasis and E-Drain.

[JaegerBane]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

If you want to kill stuff with your powers rather than with your guns barrier is not the optimal bonus power for adepts.

Biotics generally function better up close and personal, an environment that the Adept doesn't really work well under. Barrier fixes that. Without that you're stuck at the back of the room spamming powers. While that may appeal to Adept hyper-purists it can get a bit boring for the rest of us - but yeah, there is some credence to Barrier not being the best bonus power for every single playstyle, at least.

Personally I quite like the combat mechanic and and the old ME1 vanguard playstyle, which this accurately simulates. Energy Drain is a good power also... but it's not really useful in addressing the Adept's fragility unless you're on a geth mission.

Of course, Warp Ammo can't realistically be recommended at the expense of barrier as it depends on the Adept playing in exactly the same way as the style that would make Barrier the best choice. I think that's the issue with Adepts - their actual skillset is very well balanced in terms of biotics and hence the choice is either something that replicates what they already do or shore up their prime weakness.

Stasis isn't a bad choice as it basically means the Adept can stop *any* opponent in it's tracks. The only issue is that they aren't that many enemies in the game that singularity doesn't work on but are too tough for the Adept to rapidly break them down to the point they can physics-pwn them.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

JaegerBane wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

If you want to kill stuff with your powers rather than with your guns barrier is not the optimal bonus power for adepts.

Biotics generally function better up close and personal, an environment that the Adept doesn't really work well under. Barrier fixes that. Without that you're stuck at the back of the room spamming powers. While that may appeal to Adept hyper-purists it can get a bit boring for the rest of us - but yeah, there is some credence to Barrier not being the best bonus power for every single playstyle, at least.

I don't see how an adept's biotics work better up close and personal since being up close does not help his powers affect the enemies and makes him more vulnerable to attack. A power like energy drain helps him strip defences off the enemy without firing a shot so that he is not forced to play like a gimped soldier in order for him to use his innate powers effectively.

Barrier does absolutely zilch in helping an adept kill without firing a shot and if you are playing as an adept who uses powers to kill rather than trying to emulate a vanguard then you will be using cover and will not have survivability issues.  The adept does not need another lockdown power, especially one that does not help him kill with his powers.

I agree that stasis (with the current damage boost while falling) is a wonderful power for those who like to beat things to death with their fists or spray everything down with bullets. It is less attractive to players who like to kill with their powers while playing as the "biotic master." If I am an "Adept hyper-purist" I guess others are "Soldier hyper-purists" who would be just as happy if only the soldier class existed in the game because they want to play every class constantly shooting to kill stuff with "power heavy" classes. Playing every class the same gets boring to the rest of us.

[JaegerBane]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
I don't see how an adept's biotics work better up close and personal since being up close

It's flagrantly obvious. The Adept's powers can be interrupted by hitting a wall or something on the way over and also have a travel time which can easily interfere with combos or even connecting at all, depending on the mobility of the enemy. Being closer to the target reduces the chances of this occuring, ergo they work better up close.

A power like energy drain helps him strip defences off the enemy without firing a shot so that he is not forced to play like a gimped soldier in order for him to use his innate powers effectively.

Who said anything about playing a 'gimped soldier'? Why is pulling the trigger and moving around considered to be playing like a 'gimped soldier'? Look at my sig. Does that look anything like playing a soldier at all?

Barrier does absolutely zilch in helping an adept kill without firing a shot and if you are playing as an adept who uses powers to kill rather than trying to emulate a vanguard then you will be using cover and will not have survivability issues. 

Well, and Adept can only do anything if he isn't dead. Barrier makes this *much* less likely to occur. Claiming cover and distance can solve all survivability issues isn't really practical as there are plenty of situations in ME2 where Shep can't simply hang at the back and spam.

The adept does not need another lockdown power, especially one that does not help him kill with his powers.

Except if that lockdown power allows him to circumvent one of the biggest issues the Adept has. Stasis doesn't just instantly remove an enemy from the equation, when it wears off it leave the enemy in spectacularly vulnerable situation. It's absolute death on YMIRS, which the Adept is almost totally dependant on circumstances on at any other time. Compared to other biotic abilities like Reave and Slam, this is an ability which isn't shared by any other bonus power.

I agree that stasis (with the current damage boost while falling) is a wonderful power for those who like to beat things to death with their fists or spray everything down with bullets. It is less attractive to players who like to kill with their powers while playing as the "biotic master." If I am an "Adept hyper-purist" I guess others are "Soldier hyper-purists" who would be just as happy if only the soldier class existed in the game because they want to play every class constantly shooting to kill stuff with "power heavy" classes. Playing every class the same gets boring to the rest of us.

That's just it though - it becomes a question of boredom. *Any* class can be played by just cowering at the back making the odd attack - even soldiers and vanguards. I'm not convinced *any* class, even ones as stereotypically 'fragile' as the Adept or the Engy, were intended to play like that, as it misses out a heck of a lot of ME2's gameplay features.

[NICKjnp]

Stasis and barrier are both valid bonus powers. A lot of us have used barrier on our adepts for quite some time. It is nice to have an option to add stasis rather than barrier. It changes the fight and it helps us play the game in a different way. It also adds the ability to be effective on lvl 1 which means we can distribute points more. I know I like to use shockwave (even on Insanity) and it gives me the option to put 3 points in shockwave (making it useful).

[coinop25]

I go Warp Ammo on my Adept and tend to run with 1-2 squad mates with Overload. They drop the shields, I pop a Singularity or Pull, and then I throw Warp and/or spray into a crowd with an assault rifle. I started the character with Barrier as the bonus power (after beating the game with another class), and found it practically unusable because of the long cooldown.



Just started another Adept playthrough with Stasis, but I suspect the only reason I'm finding it so incredibly useful is that I'm not putting points into Singularity. (I just wanted to play a Nemesis who does really, really fast pull/throw/warp combos.) I think Stasis is probably more useful on my Vanguard, as it is nice to take a big enemy out of commission for a few seconds while flying around headbutting and meleeing the smaller enemies.

[OniGanon]

coinop25 wrote...

I go Warp Ammo on my Adept and tend to run with 1-2 squad mates with Overload. They drop the shields, I pop a Singularity or Pull, and then I throw Warp and/or spray into a crowd with an assault rifle. I started the character with Barrier as the bonus power (after beating the game with another class), and found it practically unusable because of the long cooldown.

That's pretty much exactly how my first Adept run went, right down to the starting with Barrier and respeccing to Warp Ammo. Pull + Warp Ammo makes short work of things.

[Permutation]

Heavy Reave is my favorite of the new biotic abilities. Like warp with health drain.

[PsyrenY]

Permutation wrote...

Heavy Reave is my favorite of the new biotic abilities. Like warp with health drain.

My only problem with Reave is that the CC it imposes can't be Warp-sploded. But I suppose that would make it OP; it's good enough as it is.