65 réponses à ce sujet

[Synthetic Frost]

Okay, so I’ve been an Infiltrator since ME1. But a thread I made a few days ago about powers sparked my interest in (finally) starting a Vanguard.

Now, I’ve scoured the board for all the Vanguard threads and I’m reading really different opinions in each. Currently, I’m still leveling, but I’m making my way through hardcore difficulty after the admittedly steep learning curve of learning which enemies I can charge without glitching out the game.

I’m coming up on the collector ship and my original take was to get the claymore for my advanced training, but a large segment of the community seems to think that’s a bad idea. Most of you say to take up sniper training and use the Viper. Now, as an infiltrator, this concept doesn’t really scare me, as I understand the need to occasionally hang back. But is the Claymore really that uninteresting? I was hoping it’d be more like comparing the Window to the Mantis. I’d like my Vanguard to be quite a bit different than my Infiltrator.

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 11 septembre 2010 - 04:16 .

[MarchWaltz]

My Vanguard took the claymore. Use it have you are face to face with the baddie after a charge. I built her with squad cryo ammo, and...I think its called heavy charge? Not the AOE one. Also got area reave. If you use it correctly,l the claymore is VERY deadly.

My tactic is basically aggressively charge people as much as possible and blow their god-damn heads off. You have your two buddies (Miri and Kasumi in my case) that freeze left overs. Also have cripple slam from miri and flash bang from Kasumi.

And yes, I only play on insanity.

Modifié par MarchWaltz, 11 septembre 2010 - 04:22 .

[mcsupersport]

It really depends on how good you can get with the Claymore and how you personally like to play. I have yet to finish a Claymore run, but have finished multiple Eviscerater/Viper runs. The new Geth Shotgun is getting good reviews from Vanguards so it is also an option to use as well. Now the Claymore is just pure destruction with a single shot, BUT you have to reload every time you shoot. There is a glitch that allows you to quick reload using melee, and the new Stasis power seems tailor made for Vanguards especially with the HUGE bonus to damage it is currently giving.



So my reply is to make a save just before you choose weapons and then try them out each way, maybe even moving the saves out of the folder if on PC and keeping both to play. Each have a slightly different playstyle and each are equally viable, so it comes down to personal preference.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

I was under the impression that no shotgun in ME2 are heads and shoulders above the others (unlike for sniper rifles, where for 99% of the time you're asking for the Viper or the Widow). Shotgun users also have more choices compared to sniper rifles, and each shotgun brings to the table something new (again, unlike sniper rifles, where it's Widow >= Viper >> Mantis and Incisor).



From my experience, the Claymore isn't uninteresting in that you can and do one-shot enemies with its high burst damage, especially on lower difficulties. Also to maintain a superior DPS many people use the reload trick - though some people consider it a bug to exploit (and in my opinion it kinda is).

[Synthetic Frost]

Nah, I’m on the Xbox 360 version. And I really dislike using cheats or exploits. Even the cosmetic ones.

[swk3000]

The biggest problem with the Claymore is that it's a one-shot weapon. Reloading takes time, and that's often time you don't have. The Claymore becomes a lot better if you use the reload trick to shorten how long it takes to reload. However, if you're not going to use the reload trick, or if you can't get the timing down (like me), then it can actually be more of a liability than an asset. Going with the Sniper Training therefore shores up one of the weaknesses of the Vanguard, instead of enhancing it's strength.

[HBC Dresden]

Or if you prefer, use the Mattock assault rifle (instead of the Viper sniper rifle), but you would have to buy the $2 Firepower Pack.

[lazuli]

Synthetic Frost wrote...

Nah, I’m on the Xbox 360 version. And I really dislike using cheats or exploits. Even the cosmetic ones.

Then you won't be getting the most out of the Claymore.  It reaches its full potential when combined with the Christina Norman approved reload trick.  If you're not going to use the reload trick, there are better shotguns out there.  My two favorites are the Katana and the Scimitar.  Both of these are more forgiving for players new to the Vanguard class.  If you miss a point blank shot with one of these, it's not the end of the world. 

[Adhin]

Yeah I prefer Evi+mattock combo. So far it works great for me, lets me mix up my combat a bit more then just 'charge shotgun' which I still do most of the time. Mattocks a scaled back Viper if you haven't tried it, lacks the scope so you don't get all freaky force-scope when casting from cover. What I would recommend is save it just before you click the screen by that dissected collector, take the claymore and see how you like the feel of it. It's literally a close quarters Widow, 1 shot and you reload.

Does more dmg then the widow point blank if all the bullets hit (400+ base). Evi does about 296 base, just bit over 100 less. You get 3 shots with it though so a Shot + melee has the same effect as a Claymore shot. With out using claymore reload trick, its easier to down 2-3 enemies at a time with the Evi, or at least down 1 and disable a second with freeze. To me it is anyways, also on 360 reload tricks bigger pain for us cause we have to take the thumb off the stick to melee.

But here's my current setup if you want to give it a shot, I find it works out incredibly well. Though I gave up squad cryo for it, I found the freeze effect I relied on the most was the one on my shotgun to keep me alive - not my squad.

Inferno Ammo, Rank 4 (AoE impact) - I use this on my Mattock
Cryo Ammo, Rank 3 - I use this only on shotgun of choice (Evi, you may prefer scimitar as it fires faster).
Heavy Charge Rank 4
Shockwave Rank 2
Pull Rank 1
Champion Rank 4
Bonus Maxed (Currently Heavy Reave for RP reasons on this char)

If you really want squad cryo with this setup its rather easy, just put the last 4 points in your bonus power into it, just gadda find a squad power you don't want maxed. Plenty of em out there that work great with 1-3 ranks. Slam, Stasis to name 2 nice ones.

Nice thing about this setup is its very versatile specifically with the Mattock + shotgun combo. Strat I use against massive Husk swarms for instnace (10+ all charging) is pull back from them and send out a Shockwave down there group, stuns em all. At which point you start firing 2-3 shots of the Mattock into the front liners to strip there shields off. Then send out another shockwave, front ones die, back ones get stunned again - rinse and repeat till the groups dead.

Most everything else is just a charge shot+melee+shot dance till stuff dies (usually right away).

-edit-
I guess another thing to think about would be do you like using pistols and SMG's at all (as a medium/long range weapon). If you do then you may prefer the shotgun to lower your weapon options. Personally I only use the SMG or pistol if im running out of mattock ammo with that setup. Usually swap between pistol/smg in situations like that, mostly cause its the Praetorian and shotguns kinda useless there. Get to close and the damn thing forces max shields on.

Modifié par Adhin, 11 septembre 2010 - 07:06 .

[Braidweb]

MarchWaltz wrote...

My Vanguard took the claymore. Use it have you are face to face with the baddie after a charge. I built her with squad cryo ammo, and...I think its called heavy charge? Not the AOE one. Also got area reave. If you use it correctly,l the claymore is VERY deadly.

My tactic is basically aggressively charge people as much as possible and blow their god-damn heads off. You have your two buddies (Miri and Kasumi in my case) that freeze left overs. Also have cripple slam from miri and flash bang from Kasumi.

And yes, I only play on insanity.

Same here, plus use your punch to give you a split-second edge and knock-back: charge-fire-punch-reload-fire-punch-charge ...

[sinosleep]

If you aren't going to be using the reload trick then the claymore might be a bad choice cause it only really shines with it. Granted, in a one on one fight most mobs are going down in one shot regardless, but when you charge groups and aren't taking cover in between, or when you run into multi-defense baddies that take more than one shot having to go through the entire reload animation is a liability. At that point I'd much rather have the evi on hand so that at last while I'm not shooting I'm staggering guys with melee.

Even if it takes more shots it's safer to shoot, melee, melee, shoot, melee, melee, with an evi than it is to shoot, reload, shoot, without the aid of the reload trick with a claymore while just standing in front of a guy.

Otherwise the shotguns are balanced remarkably well and when it comes to standard mobs and it's more about feel than anything else. Just roll with what you're comfortable with.

Modifié par sinosleep, 11 septembre 2010 - 08:50 .

[Synthetic Frost]

Well if by “reload trick” you mean hitting the melee button during the reloading animation so it shaves off a fraction of a second, then no. I don’t see that as an exploit. I do that just automatically in about every shooter I play. I’ve never considered that an exploit so much because I just naturally melee if I’m that close anyway. Played way too many sniper/shotty matches in Halo 1 to not learn that instinctively. Even in Gears of War which gives you the damage bonus for reloading perfectly, I had that “Reload perfectly 10 times in a row” achievement within the first 5 mins of playing it. Heh.

Just about every shooter game has that “glitch”. You’re just gimping yourself by not using it.

Modifié par Synthetic Frost, 11 septembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[Kronner]

Yes, the reload trick is clearly meant to be used, works with all guns and all powers can trigger it (shot + Charge is A-W-E-S-O-M-E), the reload trick basically removes RoF restriction, but you still have to reload (wait for the "click), otherwise it does not work. Some people might not enjoy doing it, that is their preference and it is ok. Personally, I like all shotguns a lot and Claymore is the most fun (it is BFG, awesome sound, 1S1K) to play with for me so I use it almost all the time. Evi is a close second but I use it on Assault Sentinels, so no reason to use it on a Vanguard too for me. Scimitar is very effective, but I do not enjoy the low damage per shot. Katana is ok too and I love the sound it makes.
In the end all shotguns are viable and the choice is purely personal preference.

Modifié par Kronner, 11 septembre 2010 - 09:21 .

[EKozski]

My Vanguard runs around with the Locust from, the Kasumi DLC. I honestly prefer rapid fire weapons like the SMG. I do like the hand cannon that Mordin gives you also. But, in the end, I'm always using that Locust.

On the Collector Ship, I just pick an Assult Rife.

[Khuutra]

As one 360 player to another: you can get the Claymore, but it's not going to be as effective for you or me as it is for a PC player.



The reload trick is awesome and turns the Claymore into a death cannon, but doing the reload trick requires you to hold the fire button and press melee. Problem with the 360 version is you can't press melee while turning, so you're going to miss shots on the 360 version a lot more often than you would on PC.



I took the Claymore anyway (on Insanity) because Vanguards don't need ARs or SRs, but I didn't use it a lot.

[Grimjesse127]

If you have the Firepower pack then just use the Geth Plasma Shotgun. If you charge it it's more powerful than the Claymore, but it's not that great close up. You should stick to Scimitar or Eviscerator. For a Vanguard I don't think Snipers are that good. It doesn't really work with Charge. Assault Rifles would be better, maybe the Mattock or Avenger.



Then again, I've never used a Vanguard. I'm planning on using it next.

[Synthetic Frost]

Khuutra wrote...
The reload trick is awesome and turns the Claymore into a death cannon, but doing the reload trick requires you to hold the fire button and press melee. Problem with the 360 version is you can't press melee while turning, so you're going to miss shots on the 360 version a lot more often than you would on PC.

You can if you’re left handed, and use Southpaw controls, like me!



... You just can’t move...

>.>

[JaegerBane]

Grimjesse127 wrote...

If you have the Firepower pack then just use the Geth Plasma Shotgun. If you charge it it's more powerful than the Claymore, but it's not that great close up. You should stick to Scimitar or Eviscerator. For a Vanguard I don't think Snipers are that good. It doesn't really work with Charge. Assault Rifles would be better, maybe the Mattock or Avenger.

Then again, I've never used a Vanguard. I'm planning on using it next.

Sniper rifles on a Vanguard work a lot better than one would think. Aside from the obvious fill-in-the-gaps effect on the Vanguard's firepower, Charge can set you up into some ludicrously good sniping positions. I think the most blatant example of this is on Okeer's mission just before you meet him, where a Vanguard can simply teleport from one end of the platform to the other, then up into an overhang overlooking a big buncha enemies in a matter of seconds where any other class would have to hot foot it through a merc squad.

[PsyrenY]

My VG took Claymore because I got the reload trick down... but without it, I would definitely go Mattock + GPS or Mattock + Scimitar.



In fact, I might do those any - The GPS uncharged is on par with the Katana, and charged beats the Claymore.

[MadCat221]

A few tips for powers instead of weapons for Vanguards...

You'll find that you'll regard your powers in the same way that many main battle tank crews regard their tank's armaments: Charge may be the "Big Gun", but you'll find you're using Pull (the "Machine gun") a lot more. Just as well, it has a real fast cooldown and you can arc around cover. Don't bother with Shockwave much beyond the requisite needed to unlock Pull. And of course... Pull + Charge counts as a biotic combo. Send 'em flying!

Modifié par MadCat221, 11 septembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[lazuli]

Optimystic_X wrote...
In fact, I might do those any - The GPS uncharged is on par with the Katana, and charged beats the Claymore.

I'm just concerned about the GPS's spread.  The Eviscerator's spread was too tight for my taste.  I prefer the sawed-off feel of the Scimitar.  You hardly have to aim.

[Adhin]

I don't really like the GPS for a Vanguard, doesn't 'feel' right. Put on a Soldier or anyone else really its pretty sweet. It has a nice secondary feature people seem to never mention. If you 'aim' with it at targets the 3 shots actually home into them. Its a slight bend/curving so its not a 100% hit rate but as long as they're not running around like mad your gonna hit with all 3, same when charging. If you hold aim to fire with it fulled charged they home in.



That said you can do more damage overall if you hit multiple people with it (which can be hard to do). Each orb fired from it (it fires 3) does less damage then the first, so overall direct impact dmg of all 3 is less then the 3 totals combined, if you can hit 3 targets with each shot your delivering the full payload of dmg, its just split up.



Another way to look at that is if you have 3 targets, you fire 3 times and the orbs are split up evenly amongst them its more damage then if you shot 3 targets with 1 full (homed) blast each. Kinda interesting.

[Nicodemus]

I'm currently playing my Vanguard without using charge and finding it fun. Took the assualt rifle training and chose slam as my advanced training option.. and am having a blast. Play it how you want to play it and enjoy it, that'll make it more unique to you.

[sinosleep]

You kinda have to take any charged gps shot damage with a grain of salt. Sure, you can charge it up pre charge for the first guy, but trying to re-charge it mid battle would result in death. While initially the burst damage might put it past the claymore it would eventually catch up due to the fact you aren't going to be able to keep charging the GPS.