123 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Athenau wrote...

But even six rounds per second is, what, just slightly weaker than the Viper dps-wise? And the Viper has amazing dps. So it's not like you're getting a gimpy weapon outside of AR.

I'm not saying it's not effective outside of AR, I just don't think it's nearly as godlike unless you've got obscene mouse clicking skills. As far as compared to the viper, the viper CRUSHED it against armor in my test, then again considering the modifiers it should have.

[Nooneyouknow13]

I despise the Mattock. Have yet to play Soldier, only assault rifle experience on Adept. Performance good, although clicking so often irritating. Ammo is an issue, cannot aim precisely while taking advantage of high rate of fire. Vindicator has the same problem. Prefer Avenger or Geth Pulse Rifle myself, use Avenger more often as Tempest is sufficient against shields and barriers.

Damn Anglerfish's post.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 02 octobre 2010 - 09:34 .

[IMNWME]

If you have Inferno Ammo equipped (and you should, you're a Soldier), then yes, there is such a thing as suppressive fire.

[Urazz]

Personally, I think both are about equal. The Revenant does good damage and has plenty of ammo so you can fire it plenty outside of adrenaline rush if your shields/health is fine. It's mainly a close range assault rifle until you get the assault rifle accuracy upgrade and then it becomes a short to medium range gun.



The Mattock's ammo tends to limit how often you can fire it outside of adrenaline rush but it does the best damage out of all the assault rifles and is quite accurate. Personally, I think with it's limited ammo, the Mattock is more of a medium to long range gun. While it is capable of killing stuff in close range, it can eat through ammo too fast to kill something that gets close and is pretty much at full health, like a krogan for example.

[IMNWME]

Actually, I'd much rather have the Mattock on hand when facing down a charging Krogan than the Revenant because the DPS is higher regardless of whether you're in Rush or not.

[pikey1969]

As far as soldiers are concerned... Mattock alll the way.



Going from the Viper to the Widow was a far more versatile and worthwhile upgrade for me than it would have been to go Revenant from Mattock, which is highly disputable in the first place.



I don't know how effective the targeting/aim-assist is on the 360, but as far as PCs are concerned Mattock is essentially the 'G3' of Mass Effect, the single-round semi-auto rifle that is incredibly powerful as long as you don't waste your rounds.

[PillarBiter]

Personally, I think they're about equal for usefulness. The only thing the mattock has going for him is that if you use the mattock and not the revenant, you also get to use the widow sniper rifle.

[Rifes38]

I tested it out through many trials on the platform battle on the disabled collector ship on insanity, and I play on the 360.  I specced my char and party to be what I felt was good for the Revenent.  Hardenned and Shock Trooper with Mordin (to use powers when barriers were stripped) and Grunt (to just be Grunt).

I found that the Mattock could kill the first platform of enemies much faster (normally one AR), but would run out of ammo before the entire battle ended.  Combined with the Widow, I had no problem clearing out the first platform and the Scion before the second wave came.  Finishing off the last few guys was not hard with the Widow and shotgun.

The Revenent struggled much more in clearing out the first wave on time.  Through many trials I couldn't reproduce the ease at which the Mattock cleared out the first platform.  Often the Scion was still there when the second wave came.  

I am not the greatest ME2 player ever, but that is what I found on a very easy to reproduce test (since it happens right after you pick the weapons anyway).  To me, even on the 360, it is Mattock hands down.  When you consider that you still get to pick Claymore or Widow since you didn't use your pick on the Revenent it is a no brainer to me. 

I'll also note that I almost ran totally out of ammo at the last Husk rush.  I left the ship with 3 widow rounds, 1 shotgun round and no Mattock rounds.  Again though, it didn't pose THAT much of a problem since by the time you empty the Mattock you have done a crazy amount of damage anyway.  Lastly, you can easily do that mission without any of the "special" weapons (widow, revenent, claymore), so, the choice isn't as critical with the new weapons in the game.  I do think the Widow gives you the most upgrade though since one head shot is easier to get than several in a row.  

Modifié par Rifes38, 03 octobre 2010 - 11:13 .

[swn32]

MrCry0 wrote...
The only thing the mattock has going for him is that if you use the mattock and not the revenant, you also get to use the widow sniper rifle.

You've got to be kidding me.

[PrinceLionheart]

I normally go with the Mattock because I'm a fan of playing as a Widow!Soldier.

[Homebound]

Rifes38 wrote...

I tested it out through many trials on the platform battle on the disabled collector ship on insanity, and I play on the 360.  I specced my char and party to be what I felt was good for the Revenent.  Hardenned and Shock Trooper with Mordin (to use powers when barriers were stripped) and Grunt (to just be Grunt).

I found that the Mattock could kill the first platform of enemies much faster (normally one AR), but would run out of ammo before the entire battle ended.  Combined with the Widow, I had no problem clearing out the first platform and the Scion before the second wave came.  Finishing off the last few guys was not hard with the Widow and shotgun.

The Revenent struggled much more in clearing out the first wave on time.  Through many trials I couldn't reproduce the ease at which the Mattock cleared out the first platform.  Often the Scion was still there when the second wave came.  

I am not the greatest ME2 player ever, but that is what I found on a very easy to reproduce test (since it happens right after you pick the weapons anyway).  To me, even on the 360, it is Mattock hands down.  When you consider that you still get to pick Claymore or Widow since you didn't use your pick on the Revenent it is a no brainer to me. 

I'll also note that I almost ran totally out of ammo at the last Husk rush.  I left the ship with 3 widow rounds, 1 shotgun round and no Mattock rounds.  Again though, it didn't pose THAT much of a problem since by the time you empty the Mattock you have done a crazy amount of damage anyway.  Lastly, you can easily do that mission without any of the "special" weapons (widow, revenent, claymore), so, the choice isn't as critical with the new weapons in the game.  I do think the Widow gives you the most upgrade though since one head shot is easier to get than several in a row.  

But does it work in Insanity?

[ryoldschool]

He said "I tested it out through many trials on the platform battle on the disabled collector ship on insanity, and I play on the 360."

[Rifes38]

I am not claiming to be an authority on what works and doesn't.  I am just adding that in my experience from repeated trials under the same conditions(platform battle) , I couldn't get the revenent to work as good as the Mattock.  The revenent did last longer though for what that is worth (ammo is harder to pick up on the disabled collector  ship than normally).  Yes, as I said, i play on insanity on the xbox 360. 

[HTTP 404]

Just_mike wrote...

Which one is better and why?

both are different.  the revenant is like a big oversized Tempest, big rapid-fire up close and tons of ammo.  The Mattock is more like an oversized Carnifax, slower fire rate and farther range and less ammo.

depends on what you play better as with Soldier.  Ranged/sniper Soldier go for Widow and Mattock.  Close Range/tons of ammo Soldier go for Revenant and viper/incisor.

[HTTP 404]

Rifes38 wrote...

I am not claiming to be an authority on what works and doesn't.  I am just adding that in my experience from repeated trials under the same conditions(platform battle) , I couldn't get the revenent to work as good as the Mattock.  The revenent did last longer though for what that is worth (ammo is harder to pick up on the disabled collector  ship than normally).  Yes, as I said, i play on insanity on the xbox 360. 

I didnt have any difficulty at all.  Revenant on insanity for me was one of my easiest playthroughs and I play on 360. each to their own I guess

[Rifes38]

You didn't have any difficulty doing what?  I said that it is easy to get through the game on insanity as a soldier without any of those three weapons (claymore, revenent, widow), so, I am not suggesting that it is overly difficult to use the revenent to get past that battle. I just said that the Mattock can clear that first platform much faster (when I am the one using it anyway).  I don't think it is "playstyle" either.  It is cause the revenent sprays bullets all over and the Mattock can make almost all head shots at that close of a range.

I tested them out for my own benefit to see which one worked better.  If it doesn't work as well on that battle then I don't care what else it may be able to do.  To me it just wasn't near worth passing up the widow.

For the record, I have done an entire playthrough on insanity with a revenent soldier before the Mattock was available.

Modifié par Rifes38, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:15 .

[HTTP 404]

Rifes38 wrote...

You didn't have any difficulty doing what?  I said that it is easy to get through the game on insanity as a soldier without any of those three weapons (claymore, revenent, widow), so, I am not suggesting that it is overly difficult to use the revenent to get past that battle. I just said that the Mattock can clear that first platform much faster (when I am the one using it anyway).  I don't think it is "playstyle" either.  It is cause the revenent sprays bullets all over and the Mattock can make almost all head shots at that close of a range.

I tested them out for my own benefit to see which one worked better.  If it doesn't work as well on that battle then I don't care what else it may be able to do.  To me it just wasn't near worth passing up the widow.

For the record, I have done an entire playthrough on insanity with a revenent soldier before the Mattock was available.

good for you

Modifié par HTTP 404, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:08 .

[Kaylord]

I take the Mattock for every class. The only issue is the low ammo, but that sort of balances this gun so that the others might have some use, too. Besides, the sound is awsome.
I did not play soldier since the new DLC, but I can see from this thread that is is a matter of taste which gun to prefer. For high precice commandos, the Mattock seems to be the better choice. For Rambo-style shock troopers, the Revenant seems to be more fitting.

There is one big difference, and I wonder why this has not been mentioned yet. The Revenant has a rather good and only inherent bonus vs armor (I believe it is 1,5x), while the Mattock is balanced vs every defence layer (I believe 1,25x every type).
So, if you want to have a specialized weapon for armor at close range, take Revenant. It is a pity though, that there is no specialized shield weapon except for the Geth Pulse Rifle. So, a soldier has to choose. All other classes have those wonderful SMGs, which all specialize in shield stripping. That is why my soldier always went out with Miranda and Garrus -> 2x overload plus squad damage bonus of Miranda.

Modifié par Kaylord, 04 octobre 2010 - 12:39 .

[Alamar2078]

Rifes38 wrote...
I'll also note that I almost ran totally out of ammo at the last Husk rush.  I left the ship with 3 widow rounds, 1 shotgun round and no Mattock rounds.

FYI:  I recently went through that area in NG+ Insanity and had plenty of rounds left over.  After each Husk wave the clips on the ground regenerate so you have a nigh-infinite supply of ammo in the room itself.   There are power cells outside of the room so you should be going into the final stage of the level with 100% full ammo reserves.

I didn't even bother with heavy weapons ... I just used the Mattock in AR to pound on the core when the iris was open.  I did take Grunt & Zaaed with me.  Grunt's squad Incindiary ; Fortification ; Concussive Blast ; Claymore ; and Charge served him well.  Zaaed did fine with CB and his Incindiary Grenade.

[swn32]

Kaylord wrote...

The Revenant has a rather good and only inherent bonus vs armor (I believe it is 1,5x), while the Mattock is balanced vs every defence layer (I believe 1,25x every type). .

Revenant is 1.4x against armors, 1.2 against shields and barriers. Mattock is 1.3 against armors, 1.2 against shields and barriers. Not as much of a difference as you thought. Mattock still outperforms against armors. Viper on the other hand is the specialized weapon against armor, it outperforms Mattock against armor.

It is a pity though, that there is no specialized shield weapon except for the Geth Pulse Rifle.

Its called Geth Plasma Shotgun, and its way better than Geth Pulse Rifle. It outperforms pretty much every other weapon (except Arc projector on groups) against shields/barriers, even at medium range. There is a quick refire technique with the GPS. After releasing a charge shot, if you press fire again precisely around 0.33 second, you will fire again. In adrenaline rush, the delay is more (around 1 second in real time i think). In Heightened Adrenaline Rush, you can almost take out YMIR mech shields at midrange over the course of one AR. Also the fastest way to take out praetorean barriers. Just keep the GPS charged when you have the oppurtunity. Note: Rapid tapping the fire button doesnt work. It has to be pressed again only after the fixed delay.

So If you are packing a Viper/Mattock/GPS setup, you have the fastest killing weapons in the game. However I prefer Widow over Viper because I like one shot killing enemies as well as stasis glitching against heavy mechs/scions/mini-bosses from a distance (best done with a Widow). I also find getting one headshot much easier than getting 4-5 headshots in a row.

Modifié par swn32, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:24 .

[JaegerBane]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Just_mike wrote...

Which one is better and why?

both are different.  the revenant is like a big oversized Tempest, big rapid-fire up close and tons of ammo.  The Mattock is more like an oversized Carnifax, slower fire rate and farther range and less ammo.

depends on what you play better as with Soldier.  Ranged/sniper
Soldier go for Widow and Mattock.  Close Range/tons of ammo Soldier go
for Revenant and viper/incisor.

That is pretty much the most succinctly-put, concise piece of info I've read on this thread. The only point I'd make is that both of them are primarily anti-armour (though that's mostly meaningless, particuarly for the soldier with his Disruptor rounds)

That, and the point where you suggested going for the Incisor. No matter what your strategy is (hell, no matter what your class is), there's never a good reason to pick the Incisor

[PillarBiter]

swn32 wrote...

MrCry0 wrote...
The only thing the mattock has going for him is that if you use the mattock and not the revenant, you also get to use the widow sniper rifle.

You've got to be kidding me.

what I meant was what gives the mattock an extra edge over the revenant. It obviously has other things going for it.

[JaegerBane]

swn32 wrote...

Revenant is 1.4x against armors, 1.2 against shields and barriers. Mattock is 1.3 against armors, 1.2 against shields and barriers. Not as much of a difference as you thought. Mattock still outperforms against armors. Viper on the other hand is the specialized weapon against armor, it outperforms Mattock against armor.

I gotta agree with this - though this is the same difference you'd see between an unmodded assault rifle and a Viper against shields, I'm not convinced you'd see any real difference. Not in practice, anyway.

[swn32]

JaegerBane wrote...

I gotta agree with this - though this is the same difference you'd see between an unmodded assault rifle and a Viper against shields, I'm not convinced you'd see any real difference. Not in practice, anyway.

Actually as far as I know, these bonuses are multiplicative unlike the additive bonuses like those +10% research bonuses or headshots, range bonuses etc etc. Think of them like a double word score in scrabbles. These multipliers are very useful. Even the penetration research upgrade for any weapon is multiplicative. A fully modded widow has a 2.25 multiplier against armor. It is very noticeable. See the difference in damage done between shields and armor by Widow.

Modifié par swn32, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:01 .

[JaegerBane]

swn32 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

I gotta agree with this - though this is the same difference you'd see between an unmodded assault rifle and a Viper against shields, I'm not convinced you'd see any real difference. Not in practice, anyway.

Actually as far as I know, these bonuses are multiplicative unlike the additive bonuses like those +10% research bonuses or headshots, range bonuses etc etc. Think of them like a double word score in scrabbles. These multipliers are very useful. Even the penetration research upgrade for any weapon is multiplicative. A fully modded widow has a 2.25 multiplier against armor. It is very noticeable. See the difference in damage done between shields and armor by Widow.

Interesting - so you'd essentially be getting an added 0.75 multipler (50% of 1.5) rather than a 0.5 multiplier (straight 50%).

That's probably why the Viper's performance was a bit better than I expected when I was testing it on Hock's gunship post kasumi-acrobatics. That's also presumably why the Locust still seems very effective against shields despite is apparently having only a 1.75 multiplier.