123 réponses à ce sujet

[swn32]

Yeah exactly. The Locust actually has a 1.25x1.5 multiplier against shields with the penetration ugprade instead of the 1.75 that you'd expect. The best thing about this multiplier is that it affects every additive damage bonus (except ammo power). So stuff like range bonus, headshot, research damage, AR bonus are all affected.

Modifié par swn32, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:28 .

[Bozorgmehr]

swn32 wrote...

Yeah exactly. The Locust actually has a 1.25x1.5 multiplier against shields with the penetration ugprade instead of the 1.75 that you'd expect. The best thing about this multiplier is that it affects every additive damage bonus (except ammo power). So stuff like range bonus, headshot, research damage, AR bonus are all affected.

Interesting, didn't know this. Do you have any source?

Though I must say it makes sense, always wondered why (upgraded) Claymore and Evi made short work of both shields and barriers, but Scimitar kept sucking against armor (no bonus/multipliers). I know how upgrades & ammo extra damage is calculated, but to me it remained guesswork how and when multipliers kicked in.

[swn32]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Yeah exactly. The Locust actually has a 1.25x1.5 multiplier against shields with the penetration ugprade instead of the 1.75 that you'd expect. The best thing about this multiplier is that it affects every additive damage bonus (except ammo power). So stuff like range bonus, headshot, research damage, AR bonus are all affected.

Interesting, didn't know this. Do you have any source?

Though I must say it makes sense, always wondered why (upgraded) Claymore and Evi made short work of both shields and barriers, but Scimitar kept sucking against armor (no bonus/multipliers). I know how upgrades & ammo extra damage is calculated, but to me it remained guesswork how and when multipliers kicked in.

I don't have any official source, but here's a thread by someone who did a lot of testing. I checked it in game by modifying my widow (range bonus doesnt affect results) damage via coalesced files just enough to down one layer of YMIR mech defense. It was more or less correct. For Shields I needed around 2.25 times more base damage (regardless of damage upgrades) to one shot it as compared to armor. I also confirmed that YMIR mech has equal armor and shield scores as it took equal number of concussive shots to take down.

Modifié par swn32, 05 octobre 2010 - 04:40 .

[HTTP 404]

JaegerBane wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Just_mike wrote...

Which one is better and why?

both are different.  the revenant is like a big oversized Tempest, big rapid-fire up close and tons of ammo.  The Mattock is more like an oversized Carnifax, slower fire rate and farther range and less ammo.

depends on what you play better as with Soldier.  Ranged/sniper
Soldier go for Widow and Mattock.  Close Range/tons of ammo Soldier go
for Revenant and viper/incisor.

That is pretty much the most succinctly-put, concise piece of info I've read on this thread. The only point I'd make is that both of them are primarily anti-armour (though that's mostly meaningless, particuarly for the soldier with his Disruptor rounds)

That, and the point where you suggested going for the Incisor. No matter what your strategy is (hell, no matter what your class is), there's never a good reason to pick the Incisor

haha never used it, I used the viper. perhaps I misspoke.

[Kaylord]

swn32 wrote...
Its called Geth Plasma Shotgun, and its way better than Geth Pulse Rifle. It outperforms pretty much every other weapon (except Arc projector on groups) against shields/barriers, even at medium range. There is a quick refire technique with the GPS. After releasing a charge shot, if you press fire again precisely around 0.33 second, you will fire again. In adrenaline rush, the delay is more (around 1 second in real time i think). In Heightened Adrenaline Rush, you can almost take out YMIR mech shields at midrange over the course of one AR. Also the fastest way to take out praetorean barriers. Just keep the GPS charged when you have the oppurtunity. Note: Rapid tapping the fire button doesnt work. It has to be pressed again only after the fixed delay.

Thanks for the advise! I discovered this yesterday, too, after being pointed to the sticky in this forum with all the stats listed in there. I started a NG+ soldier with Mattock/GPS/Widow and I am having a blast so far!

[Thompson family]

If I only had to choose one, I'd still choose the Revenant. However, I've recently found myself using the Mattock on missions that have a time limit.



For instance, when you go through that mission where you have to stop the Batarians from firing missiles or stop that ship full of munitions from crashing, you can rip through opponents faster with the Mattock. Note that neither of those missions has heavy mechs and other "bosses," just lots of regular enemies who need killing quickly and have access to good cover.



So why not use the Mattock all the time? Because in most missions, you have time to fight smart, put your squadmates behind good cover, then get out in front and blast anything coming at you with a Revenant. And ammo is more of a consideration. When you don't have time for that, the Mattock's the better choice.

[Kaylord]

Well, the Mattock/GPS/Widow soldier certainly has to have a good aim and to look out a lot more for his ammo. No Tempest with 650 shots as backup, no Revenant either.

[swn32]

The high damage output should make up for it. Also unless you prefer one shot killing with the sniper, you should take the Viper with you. Its great against heavily armored targets like gunships, thresher maws, scions etc.

[Rifes38]

As I had said earlier the advantage of the revenent is (other than just liking the graphics and sound) is the limitless ammo. If you like having one workhorse weapon to use the entire mission then revenent would probably be the choice.  You are very hard pressed to find a mission where ammo is hard to find though, and on the DCS (where ammo is hard to find) I still would rather have the higher DPS weapon (which is the mattock).   Also, you bring a heavy pistol, shotgun, sniper rifle and heavy weapon along also.  May as well make use of them also I say. 

The problem to me is that the more inaccurate weapon is also the lower DPS weapon.  It is a bad tradeoff.  The revenent is not necessarily better "up close" either. 

That said, I am all for using a weapon just cause you find it cool, and I do have a revenent soldier specced to be as close to Rambo as a non-Sentinal/Vanguard can be, but if he were to meet my Mattock soldier he would die. 

[Athenau]

If you snipe at all or if you use the shotgun at all, you will have no problems with Mattock ammo.

With the standard GPS/Mattock/Widow setup I roll as follows:

GPS w. heavy disruptor - weapon switch for mechs on mixed synthetic/organic missions, charged alpha strike on targets with lots of shields (ymirs, merc bosses).

Mattock w inferno - workhorse weapon

Widow w heavy disruptor - Reliable OSOK weapon when I don't want to expose myself or the range is long enough that I need the scope.

[swn32]

I find disruptor ammo on GPS very redundant. I use inferno instead.

[JaegerBane]

Rifes38 wrote...

As I had said earlier the advantage of the revenent is (other than just liking the graphics and sound) is the limitless ammo. If you like having one workhorse weapon to use the entire mission then revenent would probably be the choice.  You are very hard pressed to find a mission where ammo is hard to find though, and on the DCS (where ammo is hard to find) I still would rather have the higher DPS weapon (which is the mattock).   Also, you bring a heavy pistol, shotgun, sniper rifle and heavy weapon along also.  May as well make use of them also I say. 

I'm not sure it's been a question of ammo being hard to find - it's more really that the Revenant effectively allows you to ignore ammo concerns. This in turn allows more freedom in terms of positioning and advancing, which is practically what the whole 'Rambo' style is all about - constant agression.

Whether or not that is more, less or equally effective than the Commando-esque approach the Mattock favours is another question entirely, and dependant on what you choose to measure effectiveness by - but once you've chosen your playstyle, it's a question of what matters more to you - spike DPS or sustainable DPS. Being able to sustain your damage output is far more important when you're constantly moving and repositioning, scattering fire everywhere.

Bringing in other weapons clouds the issue, in any case. The Viper, for instance, is very close to the Mattock in terms of it's use and sacrifices potential against some enemies for greater effectiveness on others, while shotguns can either be weapons that neatly boost the CC potential of a soldier or or provide them with a powerful long range performance. Pistols, likewise, can either be a rapid-firing backups or something that effectively allows scopeless sniping, and heavy weapons can be practically anything you need them to be.

The short answer is that the presence of other weapon types does not actually advantage either AR choice or playstyle and hence is irrelevant.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 08 octobre 2010 - 03:42 .

[Homebound]

I use Insanity as a measuring stick. If it doesnt cut it in Insanity, its not good enough.



So, on Insanity, where enemies have shield/armor more health/etc, which is better? Mattock or Revenant?

[Praetor Knight]

Just_mike wrote...

I use Insanity as a measuring stick. If it doesnt cut it in Insanity, its not good enough.

So, on Insanity, where enemies have shield/armor more health/etc, which is better? Mattock or Revenant?

My insanity runs, I run out of ammo as a commando using mattock, I need to rely on my squad.

there have been missions where I have less then ~32 spare rounds in the middle of missions, from having to use my other weapons on longer missions and not getting enough from thermal clip pick ups.

I typically deplete the mantis, til I get viper, and the phalanx (I'd never use carnifex with mattock again, not enough ammo) and I go with GPS.

I've tended to also rely on the grenade launcher more and I you have to also micro ammo powers more if you are not using warp to get max effiency per round, or focusing on leveling up AR and passive before ammo powers.

heavy ammo pickups are a Godsend resetting the Spare ammo, but a pain when 0-0 on 2 or 3 guns out of four.

but I do love clearing out some rooms quickly, just need a change in either total rounds or better efficiency witn thermal clip pick ups.

[swn32]

JaegerBane wrote...

Being able to sustain your damage output is far more important when you're constantly moving and repositioning, scattering fire everywhere.

Only the last point requires sustained DPS. Constant moving and repositioning has nothing to do with huge ammo capacity.

[JaegerBane]

swn32 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Being able to sustain your damage output is far more important when you're constantly moving and repositioning, scattering fire everywhere.

Only the last point requires sustained DPS. Constant moving and repositioning has nothing to do with huge ammo capacity.

You're taking the quote out of context, here. By 'constant moving and repositioning' (as I mentioned in the previous paragraph you haven't quoted) I was referring to the idea that when you're focusing on taking down, flanking and ambushing enemies, having a weapon that doesn't require a constant stream of replacement clips to maintain it's damage output is boon to the gameplay style. Without that you're having to divert attention to replenish your ammo while in the middle of a battle, rather than after it.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 08 octobre 2010 - 08:27 .

[cyberbook]

JaegerBane wrote...

Rifes38 wrote...

As I had said earlier the advantage of the revenent is (other than just liking the graphics and sound) is the limitless ammo. If you like having one workhorse weapon to use the entire mission then revenent would probably be the choice.  You are very hard pressed to find a mission where ammo is hard to find though, and on the DCS (where ammo is hard to find) I still would rather have the higher DPS weapon (which is the mattock).   Also, you bring a heavy pistol, shotgun, sniper rifle and heavy weapon along also.  May as well make use of them also I say. 

I'm not sure it's been a question of ammo being hard to find - it's more really that the Revenant effectively allows you to ignore ammo concerns. This in turn allows more freedom in terms of positioning and advancing, which is practically what the whole 'Rambo' style is all about - constant agression.

Whether or not that is more, less or equally effective than the Commando-esque approach the Mattock favours is another question entirely, and dependant on what you choose to measure effectiveness by - but once you've chosen your playstyle, it's a question of what matters more to you - spike DPS or sustainable DPS. Being able to sustain your damage output is far more important when you're constantly moving and repositioning, scattering fire everywhere.

Bringing in other weapons clouds the issue, in any case. The Viper, for instance, is very close to the Mattock in terms of it's use and sacrifices potential against some enemies for greater effectiveness on others, while shotguns can either be weapons that neatly boost the CC potential of a soldier or or provide them with a powerful long range performance. Pistols, likewise, can either be a rapid-firing backups or something that effectively allows scopeless sniping, and heavy weapons can be practically anything you need them to be.

The short answer is that the presence of other weapon types does not actually advantage either AR choice or playstyle and hence is irrelevant.

This has to be the most lucid post I've read yet on the differences between the two. Personally, I'm a more a fan of the Revenant. Who needs to be accurate when you can put up a wall of lead?

[Athenau]

The Mattock is the only assault rifle that guarantees a freeze with cryo on a clean hit to health, which makes it even more awesome.

[JaegerBane]

cyberbook wrote...
This has to be the most lucid post I've read yet on the differences between the two. Personally, I'm a more a fan of the Revenant. Who needs to be accurate when you can put up a wall of lead?

Cheers

[Iluvhir Strafermeyer]

Hi fellas!
I think this thread has been fairly informative. I came here to read about both rifles, and it seemed to me that they are equally powerful. Some of you obsess over the Mattock and will defend it at any cost and against all evidence to the contrary, and some favour the Revenant.
I've played through the game 5 times now; 2 times with the Mattock, 2 times with the Revenant, and the latest run I alternated between the two - on various difficulty settings. Here's what I find.
On normal difficulty, the Mattock has no equal. The Revenant does a good job, but because the enemies are so weak, the Mattock will one-shot any foe with just a health bar with a headshot. I use Tungsten ammo and Heightened AR when I use the Mattock, and Inferno ammo, Hardened AR and Geth Shield Boost (10% extra dmg) when I use the Revenant. I rarely fire the Mattock out of AR to maximize its damage/round efficiency. It was child's play. The reason I pick Tungsten ammo over Inferno ammo is because most enemies will die in one or two rounds. Tungsten provides higher burst damage, which is why I used it. The difference, however, is not very big. Because enemies are so easy to dispatch on normal difficulty, you don't run out of ammo. That's how deadly the Mattock is.
However, I found that the more I increased the difficulty, the harder it became to maintain ammo. Also, the enemies push toward you more aggressively and intelligently, which means waiting for the AR cooldown requires some finesse (firing the Mattock out of AR will make you run out of ammo on harder difficulties). It's nothing difficult to manage; I retreated from cover to cover as I saw fit to keep the enemies from out-flanking me. Using that tactic, the Mattock will remain deadly even with all the downtime (reloading and waiting for AR). However, as early as veteran difficulty, I noticed that ammo could become a problem if you waste your shots (no one hits 100%, don't bother trying to fool us).
For me, I say veteran is where the Revenant and the Mattock become equally good. On harder difficulties, the Revenant becomes better IMO. On insanity, the Mattock was actually giving me a hard time. I prefer the Revenant on Veteran and up, It's a reliable rifle, and when you learn to use it properly it can kill things fairly well on mid-long range (though ofc not as well as the Mattock). I usually switch to the Viper SR when things are too far away.

[The Grey Ranger]

Why dig up a year old thread when there's a Revenant thread on the first page?

[Homebound]

I guess the Revenant is the best AR in the higher difficulties. even with mattock's damage.

[Bananables]

im more of a precision/efficiency gamer. i always pick the stealth/ranged class if its available. with that said, i prefer the mattock, but i guess i also like the rev cuz it shines at some parts more than the mattock.

even though i like precision, i dont by any means have the best aim (xbox 360, more comfortable on the PC), so for me the mattock only redeems itself after at least 3 damage upgrades and the right heavy (not squad) ammo. the faster the enemy goes down, the more ammo youll be left with at the end.

someone pointed out that the mattock's low ammo count is actually a benefit because it makes you use the other weapons at your disposal, so in a way it makes you more tactical.

i really like the vindicator alot too but i think a mattock used correctly blows it out the water.

question: mattock/widow or mattock/viper for soldier? i havent read most of the thread my bad.

[capn233]

What are you taking if you are Mattock Viper? The Claymore? That would be a potent combo, as would Mattock and Widow. Depends on what range you want to work at.

I don't have the Mattock, and I prefer the Viper to the Widow, fwiw. It isn't as simple as that statement I suppose, because what I really prefer is the Revenant + the Viper as opposed to the Vindicator and Widow. Vindicator + Viper is a very potent combination that isn't really all that bad on ammo if you are using adrenaline rush and not missing. If you like the Mattock a lot better then perhaps you should try Mattock+Viper+Claymore.