I can't say how hard it is, but the recorded dialogue makes it sound like it was a challenge.
Well that's what they say, but that is some real kiss ass dialogue there. I was actually asking for your thoughts on what would be appropriately hard to pull it off.
With how often the games kiss your ass, you really think so?
As I said above, there was plenty of ass kissing in that audio.
It's a real conflict and people die but it's never certain who dies when or if at all. A forced "someone lives" isn't any better than a forced "someone dies", it's just less obvious. All you've really got are probabilities, from "everyone dies" to "everyone survives", and the odds of either extreme aren't zero. That's why you've got to tread very carefully to stop it from feeling forced or too easy, considering that it's impractical to implement all those probabilities. IMO Virmire just about lies on the right side, i.e. it doesn't break suspension of illusion of choice (with an RPG that goes hand-in-hand with suspension of disbelief, something needed for just about any story).Not me. Well, how hard is "hard?" It was way too easy to get everyone out of the "suicide mission." You're right that it was largely for the sake of drama, but I like that from a story heavy game. It wasn't forced BS. It established that this is a real conflict and soldiers die, just like Jenkins. Unfortunately, Jenkins died so early that he was a placeholder squademate for Ashley and you had no connection to him.
It's a real conflict and people die but it's never certain who dies when or if at all. A forced "someone lives" isn't any better than a forced "someone dies", it's just less obvious. All you've really got are probabilities, from "everyone dies" to "everyone survives", and the odds of either extreme aren't zero. That's why you've got to tread very carefully to stop it from feeling forced or too easy, considering that it's impractical to implement all those probabilities. IMO Virmire just about lies on the right side, i.e. it doesn't break suspension of illusion of choice (with an RPG that goes hand-in-hand with suspension of disbelief, something needed for just about any story).
There's only real drama when there's always a chance of either death or survival.
That's what I meant by "not forced". You sent both people to separate missions and they set you under time pressure so that you could only save one. Nobody was overly stupid or had BS bad guy powers.
He's a frigging staff Lt.
Assuming he's even a frigging GSO III(unlikely as he isn't assigned to the admiralty) He's not so highly ranked that the military is lesser for his loss.
I mean sure's he's Shepard's third direct successor in terms of chain of command but otherwise? Yeah no real impact on anything, also given his junior officership even a armchair like Pressly outranks him.
Williams is special forces material and that to my eye is far more valuable then a Biotic Officer with moderate experience, even given their rarity because the Alliance has THOUSANDS of them in the military.
Kaidan is a tech support and a rare L2 biotic combatant. As Staff Lieutenant, he was only a rank lower than Lieutenant Commander Shepard. And he is an experienced Special Forces officer (talk to Chakwas). In three years, he commanded the Alliance's Special Ops for Biotic Division complete with its own black ops. Ashley was nowhere near as experienced as Kaidan and Shepard combined.
Nobody even explained clearly how Ashley went from Operations Chief to Lieutenant Commander in six month except that she went through officer training. Is it because she was long overdue for promotion that she received delayed nepotism as an apology? and then suddenly became a Spectre. Her true greatest achievement was staying alive from ME1 to ME3... even then its not enough because she blame herself for being alive. Too much angst I don't really care about.
Kaidan is a tech support and a rare L2 biotic combatant. As Staff Lieutenant, he was only a rank lower than Lieutenant Commander Shepard. And he is an experienced Special Forces officer (talk to Chakwas). In three years, he commanded the Alliance's Special Ops for Biotic Division complete with its own black ops. Ashley was nowhere near as experienced as Kaidan and Shepard combined.
Not to mention that any elevator conversation in ME that includes Kaidan and any other squad member has that second squad member remarking on how powerful Kaidan's biotics are. His response is always that he held back, but never would again after seeing Eden Prime.
I think he might be easily as powerful as Jack.
He isn't anywhere near that level.
His highlight is snapping a neck.
Jack scraps heavy mechs solely with biotics.
And she's comparable to a 1,000 year old Asari.
Modifié par Monica21, 31 mars 2016 - 01:39 .
Kaidan is also not crazy.
edit: Oh, and Kaidan also did that at a very young age with barely any training in how to use his biotics.
Also you brought up the Jack comparison. Not me.
Are we depending Biotic strength on cutscenes now? Biotic Shepard never even show their OP strength until Citadel DLC. Does this mean Shepard is a flake?
Average human biotics could only at best lift something off the table with their mind but not enough to kill anyone. Vyrnnus was a biotic mercenary and a combat veteran who fought during the First Contact War... and he was killed by a seventeen year old boy who was barely trained (he received his implant a year before the incident) and completely unenhanced. Even Jack have to suffer an ugly horrifying childhood just to get to the same level as Kaidan. He isn't someone who like to show off since he have issues of accidentally killing people with his biotics and he's nowhere near as mentally unstable as Jack.
Do you have anything to support your statement that Jack really is an equal to an Asari matriarch. The only true Asari matriarch which we can control was Aria T'Loak and Jack have nowhere near her abilities. In Jack's dossier, she was "rumored to be one of the most powerful biotic ever encountered" but it was an ambiguous title which could apply to everyone even Kaidan, Liara, Wrex, Aria, Benezia, Nyreen, Samara, Thane, Miranda, Jacob and Gillian Grayson. Jack could cleave through mechs and yet during sustained combat, she's only limited to Shockwave, Pull and Wrap Ammo (none of which was very effective against shield or armor). She could hit hard but she couldn't stay that way too long and she did fizzle out at the end of her recruitment mission after all the explosions she make. And in one of the upgrades, it says that Jack did suffer from a type of progressive neural degeneration which make her spike higher but may have other unforeseen side effects to her health. Being the top biotics doesn't always meant it was a good thing.
Kaidan comments in ME1 that his L2s allow him to spike higher than most L3s in combat, with a Biotic Shepard being a rare exception.
I guess he could have been lying about the last part to downplay his abilities and not show up his new boss, which does seem in-character for him. But if he was telling the truth and Shepard has more biotic potential and power, I still think Kaidan might be slightly stronger (at least in practice), due to him having far more experience and training from BAaT when it comes to using his abilities.
The background for a Biotic Shepard is that they were one of the kids who manifested as a result of secondary exposure to Eezo, between the time when BAat was shut down and Grissom opened several years later. Shepard was only identified as biotic after joining the Alliance, where they were fitted with implants and given a crash course in how to use biotics alongside their basic training.
Not to say the Alliance would send their biotics away with an afternoon course under their belt, a handbook and a simple "good luck", but I doubt the Biotic course that they put them through is anywhere near as gruelling as BAaT or intensive as Grissom later on.
Then again... Shepard has had about a decade or so to catch up on their own, so it probably evens itself out in the end?
Do you have anything to support your statement that Jack really is an equal to an Asari matriarch. The only true Asari matriarch which we can control was Aria T'Loak
I assume he was talking about Samara. She's of Matriarch age, though I don't know that the term was ever actually applied to her. And as you know, Jack can match Samara is making the bubble in the suicide mission. Was Aria a matriarch?
I don't think the fact that both Jack and Samara can make a bubble (or more precisely - maintain it till the end, since other biotics in squad can make a bubble as well) means they're equals. Does the fact that Prangley can shatter the window with his biotics just like Jack (when Shepard can do nothing) makes them equals? Comparisons like that are pointless, especially in game where what we see in cutscenes, what we see with gameplay and what we learn from other places don't match most of the time.
I don't think the fact that both Jack and Samara can make a bubble (or more precisely - maintain it till the end, since other biotics in squad can make a bubble as well) means they're equals. Does the fact that Prangley can shatter the window with his biotics just like Jack (when Shepard can do nothing) makes them equals? Comparisons like that are pointless, especially in game where what we see in cutscenes, what we see with gameplay and what we learn from other places don't match most of the time.
That's certainly true. While we don't see other biotics failing at smashing windows as we do maintaining bubbles, all we know is that both Jack and Samara are strong enough for that one task. So you could argue that Samara is still way beyond that point. However both do get tired by the end. It's an assumption but not a totally unreasonable one. However, you make a great point about cutscenes.
Still, I don't think there can be any question that Jack is more powerful than Kaiden. Otherwise she wouldn't be that special.
That's certainly true. While we don't see other biotics failing at smashing windows as we do maintaining bubbles, all we know is that both Jack and Samara are strong enough for that one task. So you could argue that Samara is still way beyond that point. However both do get tired by the end. It's an assumption but not a totally unreasonable one. However, you make a great point about cutscenes.
True, it's not completely unreasonable one. Just not the one I would make, considering my approach toward cutscenes where the only difference between characters are their swapped model.
Still, I don't think there can be any question that Jack is more powerful than Kaiden. Otherwise she wouldn't be that special.
Both sides can bring up good points. Is she more powerful that Kaidan? Maybe. I just don't buy whole "the most powerful human biotic", because since we learned her origin, I feel like it's part of Cerberus ego stroking. She might be the most powerful (I'm not going to judge that), but I'm surely not believing that because they told me so.
Besides power comes in many forms. Arguing who is more powerful when it's not precised what form of power you have in mind might be pointless. One person will say: "my side's attack is stonger", while the other will say: "but my side can last longer".
Dunno why, but this whole thing suddenly reminded me of Wrex's "who's more powerful - you or Shepard" line from banter with Kaidan.
I always save Kaidan over Ashley for a multitude of reasons, one simply being that Kaidan is one of my favourite Mass Effect characters, and I hated Ashley's character (though I think Kimberly Brooks did a great job voicing her, and generally love everything she does Oracle, Daisy Fitzroy etc.)
Also I nearly always play as a soldier, so having another solider around like Ashley from a gameplay point of view was wasted. I never used her outside of Eden Prime, since I have Garrus and Wrex if I need an extra boon to Combat, but they also come with boosts to tech and biotics too.
I felt James, in terms of the squad, was a kind of soldier type replacement for Ashley, regardless of whether Kaidan is saved or not. Since I liked James, I had no problem bringing him along for missions however.
Basically, Kaidan everytime. Virmire wasn't even a tough decision for me. I was actually glad at Bioware for giving me an opportunity to kill Ashley off.
Still, I don't think there can be any question that Jack is more powerful than Kaiden. Otherwise she wouldn't be that special.
We only know that Jack has been and is very important to Cerberus, which only tells me that she is powerful. I don't disagree that she is. We know that she's more powerful than Miranda because Miranda can't hold the bubble. If Jack survives the suicide mission, then she ends up training at Grissom, and that's nice and all, but Kaidan had been training a Special Ops Biotics team.
And I suppose this is all just speculation on my part, because there's nothing to indicate who's more powerful. I don't have any reason not to believe that Kaidan is at least as powerful as Jack.
I think there is but one thing I just thought of is the difference of implants. We can't actually compare their natural abilities. Kaidan has L2's but Jack has newer, more advanced implants.
I think there is but one thing I just thought of is the difference of implants. We can't actually compare their natural abilities. Kaidan has L2's but Jack has newer, more advanced implants.
I think there is but one thing I just thought of is the difference of implants. We can't actually compare their natural abilities. Kaidan has L2's but Jack has newer, more advanced implants.
And a degenerating nervous system, which in normal Biotics results in weaker fields, lesser control etc, but in her due to the vast experimentation done to her, its actually increasing her abilities. Basically she outstrips Kaidan now, and thirty years from now will be even more one sided.
Also you have a point, the newer L-5's and etc, are actually just as good if not better then L-2's, that whole line of crap about L-2 rigs being superior is long gone, that crap stopped mattering after the two year time gap, tech caught up and improved.
I think there is but one thing I just thought of is the difference of implants. We can't actually compare their natural abilities. Kaidan has L2's but Jack has newer, more advanced implants.
You can even get new one for her.
On topic.
Overall, I prefer Ash's story if she dies on Virmire. She gets all those medals, everyone recognises her... I don't have to see what they did to her in ME3... Besides I like Kaidan more. That being say, I try to save once Kaidan, once Ash.
Average human biotics could only at best lift something off the table with their mind but not enough to kill anyone.
Also citation needed.
I'm not anywhere I can check right now, but aren't the L2 implants more powerful? There's a line from Garrus in ME where he says that if the Turians could get that much power from an L2, that they wouldn't concern themselves with how safe they were.
That was the case for L2s compared to L3 in Mass Effect. Both Kaidan and Chakwas will talk about it. However I don't think that's the case for the more advanced models Jack has initially or upgraded.
I assume he was talking about Samara. She's of Matriarch age, though I don't know that the term was ever actually applied to her. And as you know, Jack can match Samara is making the bubble in the suicide mission. Was Aria a matriarch?
She had a colorful life and then settling down and building home etc. I supposed she was around Matron age (typically 350+) when she had her daughters. Morinth seemed to be the eldest and Samara spent around four hundred years chasing her. If depended on the wiki, Matriarch is over 700+ so she fit the definition.
But even if Jack could make a bubble that last long enough, Jack's survival probability was the lowest among all the companions except for Mordin, Tali and Kasumi. And she fight half naked...not sure her tattoos have protective abilities that I'm not aware off. Samara could still wipe her off the floor at any time... gosh it would be glorious.
Aria have dialogue in Citadel DLC where she said "she lived for over a thousand years old" and both Asari Councilor listened to her without question and she have her own kingdom in the Terminus system which she ruled for centuries. In Retribution, she had an adult daughter. Basically fit the profile of a successful asari elder to a T.
Also citation needed.
Mass Effect Foundation, Mass Effect Ascension, Mass Effect Retribution, Mass Effect Homeworld, Mass Effect trilogy codex on biotics and Kaidan's talk about BaAT in ME1. The only reason why biotics need implants was to control their abilities to make it practical. The relative strength of biotic abilities depends on individuals and the types of amps that they used which make the ability to kill people with biotics is just as rare. This is why most people think of them as freaks. And why Cerberus was so interested in creating implants with reaper techs to create Phantoms in the first place.
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