43 réponses à ce sujet

[StarcloudSWG]

That's what got me about these so called "boss" fights.. why should there even be a "boss" fight? Seriously, think about it from a non-gaming perspective with non-gaming expectations.



Why is there one person at the end of a "stage" that has to be tougher and stronger and more capable than the others? Why *must* there be a "tough fight" against a single creature?



Hint: There doesn't have to be. And in Mass Effect, there often *isn't*. This is good, it tells me that Bioware's concentrating on the story and not on appeasing platformers.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

my opinion of the boss battles: BW are keeping their end up and trying to keep them interesting and new.

Can I just say at this point that Vasir's charges looks to me like a "charge plus" because she can charge without having an opponent to charge to.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:25 .

[R-F]

The only boss battle i hate is Benezia in ME1. If it wasn't for her i would have been able to beat ME1 on insanity.Generally though i like the boss battles in the ME games, Shadow broker definitely stepped it up though. Figting that Spectre was intense, and the fight with the broker himself was great.

Modifié par R-F, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:26 .

[upsettingshorts]

I'm a PC gamer, and I like good boss fights because they challenge my brain. How do I defeat them? What tactics do I need to use? etc.

They're more challenging than just another wave of Geth or mercs.

But I do want them to fit into the story.   Vasir was great.  The Shadow Broker was... ok.  Just seemed like a "hey, cool monster!" throw in.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[Dave of Canada]

I want boss fights that are complex and difficult to make a return. Something like the bosses from the original Turok 64 games.

[RubiconI7]

I think they should look at some Action Adventure games (God of War, Bayonetta.etc) for inspiration on bosses...Nothing too intense and hardcore, but just not like 343 Guilty Spark in Halo 3...



The successful bosses usually has (to my experience) some of the following traits:



a) Dynamic abilities that require different methods to counter.



Use environment to their advantage. (Think "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu)



c) Can take a beating..but not to a point that is annoying.



d) Fitting to the game story. (LoTSB did very well)



Feel free to expand on this.

[casedawgz]

They're going to run into a fundamental challenge when designing the boss of ME3. The series' gameplay is characterized by infantry combat, but the main antagonists are giant robot spaceship Cthulu monsters. The nature of the gameplay limits how interesting a boss fight against a Reaper can be, because pretty much the only feasible way to do it is the way they did it at the end of ME2. Bioware would be wise to put a more personal face on the final threat, similar to what they did with Saren. Only better, because the Saren fight sucks.

[wulf3n]

I've always felt that boss fights, don't really need to include a boss or even fighting. It really just needs to be climactic way to end the level/game. The best ones are tense and suspenseful, sometimes on a time limit, they make you feel like the biggest badass in the galaxy because you survived but only barely.

[asaiasai]

I thought the boss fight were pretty good actually, some times the scripting got a bit annoying, (the Benizia fight on Noveria) but all in all well thought out. I found the SB boss fight to be interesting with the melee and guns requirement. I only really had problems with the fight not because of the boss being difficult but the game engine wanting me to take cover on the wrong side of an object. Having to move around and use the cover from both his weapon and his charge attacks, but there is nothing more frustrating than to be kicking his ass and getting glued to the wrong side of an object because when you sprint from cover point to cover point if you get to close to an obstruction you can find yourself taking cover in front of an object as opposed to behind it.



For ME3 they need to dispense with the current movement system, i actuall preffered the ME movement system with a crouch and jump keys. IF I WANT TO TAKE COVER I WILL USE THE APPROIATE KEY TO DO SO, BUT HAVING SPRINT, CROUCH, COVER AND JUMP ALL ON THE THE SAME KEY IS ASSININE! I most of the time do not need to take cover I just need to be able to float behind and around it, working the angles. If you are going to dabble in the FPS genre then you need to ensure that you allow the player to move freely and interact with thier environment. This includes the ability to crouch, jump, sprint, and take cover when and only when the player chooses to, not because they ran to close to an object.



Other than the engine related complaints i have none concerning the LotSB DLC, i thought it was good and if the future DLCs are as good i will be buying them. Oh and one more thing quit overwriting my coalesced.ini files when i install a DLC. It is not a game breaker because i just over write your overwrite, but since there seems no reason to do so quit it!



Asai

[Dave of Canada]

casedawgz wrote...

They're going to run into a fundamental challenge when designing the boss of ME3. The series' gameplay is characterized by infantry combat, but the main antagonists are giant robot spaceship Cthulu monsters. The nature of the gameplay limits how interesting a boss fight against a Reaper can be, because pretty much the only feasible way to do it is the way they did it at the end of ME2. Bioware would be wise to put a more personal face on the final threat, similar to what they did with Saren. Only better, because the Saren fight sucks.

Something similar to Majora's Mask? We go into the Reapers (Moon) and fight Harbinger (Majora)?

[casedawgz]

Dave of Canada wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

They're going to run into a fundamental challenge when designing the boss of ME3. The series' gameplay is characterized by infantry combat, but the main antagonists are giant robot spaceship Cthulu monsters. The nature of the gameplay limits how interesting a boss fight against a Reaper can be, because pretty much the only feasible way to do it is the way they did it at the end of ME2. Bioware would be wise to put a more personal face on the final threat, similar to what they did with Saren. Only better, because the Saren fight sucks.

Something similar to Majora's Mask? We go into the Reapers (Moon) and fight Harbinger (Majora)?

Works for me. Sounds better than Yu Yevon.

[Dark Glasses]

All boss fights in ME2 + DLCs are too easy compared to regular fights.

[Spartas Husky]

I miss the saren, boss fights, or the thronian style . First runthrough in hardcore, is a challenge, and very hard, but.... not downright stupid like some parts of ME2.



Still, shadow broker, felt kind a nice

[Iakus]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

That's what got me about these so called "boss" fights.. why should there even be a "boss" fight? Seriously, think about it from a non-gaming perspective with non-gaming expectations.

Why is there one person at the end of a "stage" that has to be tougher and stronger and more capable than the others? Why *must* there be a "tough fight" against a single creature?

Hint: There doesn't have to be. And in Mass Effect, there often *isn't*. This is good, it tells me that Bioware's concentrating on the story and not on appeasing platformers.

This is a good point. 

I wasn't particularly impressed by the Shadow Broker or the "Spectre on Spectre" battles in LOTSB.  Not bad, mind you, but not great either.  To me they were simply multi-stage boss fights like you find in MMOs.  Cool abilities, yeah, but once you get the pattern down, it looses it's mystique.

The challenges that I did find neat were the car chase and the waves of enemies while Liara got the hatch open on the ship.  One was an obstacle course, the other a "hold the line".  Neither had a particular individual to defeat, but they were still challenges to overcome. 

By the same token, why did we have to fight a Reaper at the end of the Suicide Mission?  Wouldn't it have been just as dramatic for Shepard and team to hold off the Collectors until the last moment before making a run for it?  Echoes of Virmire, but maybe this time Shepard can get everyone out.

Bosses aren't an inherently bad thing.  They can and often are done well.  But in the end, what's really needed is a challenge for the player, which is not necessarilly a big fire-breathing turtle standing on a bridge

[StarcloudSWG]

Looking at it from another point of view: The fight at the end of ME 2's main storyline is not a boss fight at all.



The Reaper 'core' is more like an environmental hazard. The real fighting comes from taking care of the waves of Collectors, Husks, and the occasional Scion. Disabling/destroying the hazard also ends the level, but not the fight; The Collectors *do* rush to try to stop/prevent the nuke from going off, and they try to kill/disable Shepard as Shepard tries to escape. It's just that it happens in cutscene instead of actually fighting your way out through one more map.

[asaiasai]

I will have to say that for the most part i do not want to see the boss battles require some hokie pokie type dance manouver, like is prevelent in World of Warcraft. It has been a pattern i have seen develop with the Kasumi boss fight and the LotSB boss at the end. The LotSB boss was not quite as reliant on these types of machinations and i sincerely hope that the creative design of the boss fights does not continue to follow this trend. If it is necessary to throw more enemies in the PC's way as they progress closer to the boss i am fine with that, provided of course upon arrival at the boss a bullet to the brain is sufficient to end him and that i do not have to engage in some convoluted dance to deliver the final bullet the boss will require to kill him. I guess i think it should be more about the chase and less about the kill, but as most folks would find that a bit of a let down i suppose there is no other option than the convoluted dance.



Asai

[Jamer21]

Bosses are unnecessary I would rather fight large groups of enemies that are leveled to you. Why are bosses always super strong anyways, imagine you attack the illusive mans space station and you fight his guards but Tim isn't armoured so why would he be stronger than a guard in armour. I think they should give us lots of waves of enemies and when we kill them the boss should die in a cut scene.

[CroGamer002]

Overlord? Just use M-920 Cain.

Vasir? Just use Liara's Stasis.

Shadow Broker? Enjoy that epic boss fight.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

question: how does the final boss react to using stasis and then the Cain? (Lock him in place, fire as the stasis wears off...one hit ko?)




.....interested if it also works on the occulus and thresher maw...

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 13 septembre 2010 - 08:17 .