480 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyssistr]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I agree 100%, the funny thing is DAO and ME2 have almost competely the same total sales numbers. Granted ME2 isn't yet available on PS3 (January) but still, to say there's not a big enough market to support the type of hardcore classic CRPG that Origins is is laughable and outright false.

But you're 100% correct, we're not longer the target demographic, as most of the target demographic isn't old enough to apprciate titles like BG/BG2/IWD etc.

My faith is on upcoming indie studios as far as crpgs are concerned tbh

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I agree 100%, the funny thing is DAO and ME2 have almost competely the same total sales numbers. Granted ME2 isn't yet available on PS3 (January) but still, to say there's not a big enough market to support the type of hardcore classic CRPG that Origins is is laughable and outright false.

I'd like to see some evidence to this.

But you're 100% correct, we're not longer the target demographic, as most of the target demographic isn't old enough to appreciate titles like BG/BG2/IWD etc.

Back in my day, we used to walk uphill to school. Both ways!

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I agree 100%, the funny thing is DAO and ME2 have almost competely the same total sales numbers. Granted ME2 isn't yet available on PS3 (January) but still, to say there's not a big enough market to support the type of hardcore classic CRPG that Origins is is laughable and outright false.

I'd like to see some evidence to this.

But you're 100% correct, we're not longer the target demographic, as most of the target demographic isn't old enough to appreciate titles like BG/BG2/IWD etc.

Back in my day, we used to walk uphill to school. Both ways!

Origins sold around 3 million copies last I checked. And thanks for making a poke at my age rather than contributing to the conversation. Its ok though its what you BDF guys do since most of the time you don't have much to contribute anyway aside from derailing topics into getting them locked.

[Anarya]

How can he poke fun at your age if he has no idea what your age is?

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Origins sold around 3 million copies last I checked.

And they want more than that. Origins is pretty much worshipped as a CRPG god in the modern world, if three million is all it could get and they want more then they expand their horizons. You don't settle for second best, you go for the top. If that happens to ****** off some people who'd rather moan all day, then so be it. At the end of the day, they are the ones rolling in dough.

And thanks for making a poke at my age rather than contributing to the conversation. Its ok though its what you BDF guys do since most of the time you don't have much to contribute anyway aside from derailing topics into getting them locked.

Wasn't a poke at your age, it's just you're sounding like an elderly person. I usually walk through old folks homes every day and they always talk about how amazing the older generations were and such, how the new generation is bad. You're almost doing the same thing.

I had a little bit to drink. Laughing too hard at your posts.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 octobre 2010 - 06:14 .

[Merced256]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Origins sold around 3 million copies last I checked.

And they want more than that. Origins is pretty much worshipped as a CRPG god in the modern world, if three million is all it could get and they want more then they expand their horizons. You don't settle for second best, you go for the top. If that happens to ****** off some people who'd rather moan all day, then so be it. At the end of the day, they are the ones rolling in dough.

I know capitalism is king and we've all been bred to love and defend it until our very deaths but, aren't there like stories predating the bible about the souless pursuit/hoarding of "dough." But hey, those are old-folk stories. They don't know ****, or ever knew **** to begin with.

Modifié par Merced256, 08 octobre 2010 - 06:18 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Origins sold around 3 million copies last I checked.

And they want more than that. Origins is pretty much worshipped as a CRPG god in the modern world, if three million is all it could get and they want more then they expand their horizons. You don't settle for second best, you go for the top. If that happens to ****** off some people who'd rather moan all day, then so be it. At the end of the day, they are the ones rolling in dough.

And thanks for making a poke at my age rather than contributing to the conversation. Its ok though its what you BDF guys do since most of the time you don't have much to contribute anyway aside from derailing topics into getting them locked.

Wasn't a poke at your age, it's just you're sounding like an elderly person. I usually walk through old folks homes every day and they always talk about how amazing the older generations were and such, how the new generation is bad. You're almost doing the same thing.

I had a little bit to drink. Laughing too hard at your posts.

Mass Effect 2 also sold around 3 million obviously without the PS3. So I'm not entirely sure how many more sales they think they can get. RPG's generally don't sell 10 million copies like the Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed type of deals.

Why because I appreciate and like older RPG's and would like to see more of them made? How dare I, the new **** crowd has spoken! Please  So so glad I could make you laugh though.

[Dave of Canada]

Merced256 wrote...


I know capitalism is king and we've all been bred to love and defend it until our very deaths but, aren't there like stories predating the bible about the souless pursuit/hoarding of "dough."

I'm not a big fan of capitalism myself, however when you've got this big company to worry about then you have to think of making the biggest profit. For example, if Mass Effect 2 had been this gigantic flop and wasted too many resources for Bioware - that would've (most likely) echoed throughout the entire company and changed a few things for the followup games.

A bread maker won't make a bread that some people love but sells decently, he'd want to make the most profitable bread for his company that more people could enjoy.

[Meltemph]

Its ok though its what you BDF guys do since most of the time you don't have much to contribute anyway aside from derailing topics into getting them locked.

Coming from someone who's arguments normally depend on Ad hominem's? Please, most of your "points" are all personal preference, then you try your best to hedge against any disagreement by claiming all other viewpoints "inferior".

As for your "its sold 3 million there for there is a market". You don't know the COST of DAO so you don't know if that = success or not, you may not understand it, but it actually matters.


As for the "massive changes to DAO" outside of the way dialog is used and speeding up the combat, I'm not really seeing any significant changes... To say its getting closer to ME because of this is based on partial information and a ex-employee blogging very vague comments, about the reasons he left, is a bit weak to me.


Not liking the direction is one thing, but the out-right anger/fear of someone disagreeing with the issues talked about is astounding. As for the "old school", well I think the direction it seems like its heading to me, is a good thing.

I've always preferred my D&D gameplay to actually stay where I use it, once a week at one of my friends houses or my house... I honestly don't understand why people want the D&D tabletop type experiance from video-games, video-games CAN NOT do table top D&D type events to any degree of satisfaction, to me. So I much prefer the more story driven approach to the RPG genre for video-games...

as most of the target demographic isn't old enough to appreciate titles like BG/BG2/IWD etc.

Since you are using anecdotal evidence, I will too. Everyone I play D&D with(about 8 of us who regularly play and about 12 from each others co-workers) loved ME series as a whole and are excited about DA2 and we all have been around playing video-games since and before, BG.

So they seem, to me, like they are doing a damn good job at targeting "that demographic", to me. Since I have very much enjoyed every games they have came out with. Now, that is not to say I don't have complaints, but they are normally video-game related and not philosophy based dislikes.

Modifié par Meltemph, 08 octobre 2010 - 06:28 .

[Razhathael]

I'm a bit on the edge of some of the changes, but I'm fine with them and will reserve judgement. But I still think Bioware isn't going to do as well as origins with this. Could be wrong, but I hardly see much anything but hate of it these days.



...Though that says little in the forums I suppose.

[Anarya]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Wasn't a poke at your age, it's just you're sounding like an elderly person. I usually walk through old folks homes every day and they always talk about how amazing the older generations were and such, how the new generation is bad. You're almost doing the same thing.

I had a little bit to drink. Laughing too hard at your posts.

Mass Effect 2 also sold around 3 million obviously without the PS3. So I'm not entirely sure how many more sales they think they can get. RPG's generally don't sell 10 million copies like the Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed type of deals.

Why because I appreciate and like older RPG's and would like to see more of them made? How dare I, the new **** crowd has spoken! Please  So so glad I could make you laugh though.

It's not about this:

Why because I appreciate and like older RPG's and would like to see more of them made?

It's more about this:

How dare I, the new **** crowd has spoken! Please

Although I'm not sure why I'm bothering because I'm pretty sure you already know.

[Lyssistr]

Merced256 wrote...
I know capitalism is king and we've all been bred to love and defend it until our very deaths but, aren't there like stories predating the bible about the souless pursuit/hoarding of "dough." But hey, those are old-folk stories. They don't know ****, or ever knew **** to begin with.

Actually this has nothing to do with capitalism, it's just a target group shift. Even companies in the former SU would do that. 

If their sales/production cost will be better with DA2 still remains to be seen, so don't appraise the move before it brings any fruits.

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mass Effect 2 also sold around 3 million obviously without the PS3. So I'm not entirely sure how many more sales they think they can get. RPG's generally don't sell 10 million copies like the Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed type of deals.

Mass Effect 2 sold over two million copies in the first week, I don't see it at 3 million today.

Why because I appreciate and like older RPG's and would like to see more of them made? How dare I, the new **** crowd has spoken!

Please, I'm not the "New ****" crowd. I loved all those games you remember so fondly but I know they wouldn't be able to sustain a company entirely on it's own.

[JeCy108]

BG and BGII banter was definatly better.. while DAO was interesting, I definatly chuckled many times but what it was missing was the BG style.. for those that dont know what that is ill explain.





BG and BGII both had 3 way bantars. this ment many bantars would have extra input added by other characters depending on who was in the party, OR it had special 3 way bantars that only happened with those characters. Let me tell ya some of those were incredible. a classic from BG1 was the good/evil bard and the theif.. (i forget there names i havent played the game in a while) there were many of them through out both games, and given the number of characters in each game that extended the replays value a ton. BG you could run the game from start to about chap 6 20-30 times and still have not heard all the good party combos. thats what the game is missing. the mass varriety of interactions.



Also BG had the option to interject in the banter. A talk would happen in the party and you were involved. the banter in DAO felt very bland in that aspec. So many times did i want to interject yet i couldnt. In BG 1-2, there was tons of options to persaud your compainions or ****** them off. So many times was this key parts of the party subplots as well. I know i spawned more than one interparty battle doing this.



thats what DAO is missing..

[Merced256]

Lyssistr wrote...

Merced256 wrote...
I know capitalism is king and we've all been bred to love and defend it until our very deaths but, aren't there like stories predating the bible about the souless pursuit/hoarding of "dough." But hey, those are old-folk stories. They don't know ****, or ever knew **** to begin with.

Actually this has nothing to do with capitalism, it's just a target group shift. Even companies in the former SU would do that. 

If their sales/production cost will be better with DA2 still remains to be seen, so don't appraise the move before it brings any fruits.

It don't agree, though i admit i have no evidence on hand other than recent history. From my point of veiw, and i'm certainly welcoming to anything that might change it mind you, that making DA2 more of a cinematic experience akin to ME2 will do nothing but boost DA's popularity in circles and demographics in which a DA:O claiming to be the spiritual successor to BG2 wouldn't. I've held this belief pretty much since the 30 seconds to mars trailer came out, bioware is obviously looking to break in to that market with another game. I don't blame then, but i do lament it.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Mass Effect 2 also sold around 3 million obviously without the PS3. So I'm not entirely sure how many more sales they think they can get. RPG's generally don't sell 10 million copies like the Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed type of deals.

Mass Effect 2 sold over two million copies in the first week, I don't see it at 3 million today.

Why because I appreciate and like older RPG's and would like to see more of them made? How dare I, the new **** crowd has spoken!

Please, I'm not the "New ****" crowd. I loved all those games you remember so fondly but I know they wouldn't be able to sustain a company entirely on it's own.

Look up the numbers Dave, its sold roughly 3 million total copies to date. I know it sounds wrong but its true. Bioware wouldn't have to substain itself, they could still make the ME style along with games that are more traditional, I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing type of deal. Thats not even bringing up TOR which appears to also have a very similar to ME "cinematic style" with every npc and their mother fully voiced though I'm not certain if TOR employs a dialog wheel.  

[Dave of Canada]

slimgrin wrote...

I see no real reason why these features still can't make great games. I love the old school features DAO has.

But aren't they keeping the Iso view for DA2? 

Also about the silent protagonist, that was like... the biggest complaint from everywhere when DA:O came out. People were like "OMFG WHY DOES MY GUY NOT TALK?". While I suspect they will maybe do it at a later date (should our wardens return as a protagonist, they'd have to do it for example) the likelyhood of it isn't too high if only to make the reviewers shut up.

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Look up the numbers Dave, its sold roughly 3 million total copies to date.

I cant find anything on google, it's all about the 2 million in first week or 3.9 million a few months ago.

Bioware wouldn't have to substain itself, they could still make the ME style along with games that are more traditional, I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing type of deal.

I think I covered this earlier, IDK anymore. Getting too tired to focus.

I'm not certain if TOR employs a dialog wheel.

it does.

---

just going to go to bed now.

[Merced256]

Dave of Canada wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I see no real reason why these features still can't make great games. I love the old school features DAO has.

But aren't they keeping the Iso view for DA2? 

Also about the silent protagonist, that was like... the biggest complaint from everywhere when DA:O came out. People were like "OMFG WHY DOES MY GUY NOT TALK?". While I suspect they will maybe do it at a later date (should our wardens return as a protagonist, they'd have to do it for example) the likelyhood of it isn't too high if only to make the reviewers shut up.

I don't recall this, was this from reviewers or the posting community? If its the reviewers then i have to laugh because they get nothing but bashed by one side or the other and according to this forum represent no one because of various reasons listed in those threads.

[Dave of Canada]

Merced256 wrote...

I don't recall this, was this from reviewers or the posting community? If its the reviewers then i have to laugh because they get nothing but bashed by one side or the other and according to this forum represent no one because of various reasons listed in those threads.

last post I swear. It came from both, though the voiced complaints on the forums faded away with time as the people who hated it weeded out or blended in with the crowd.

[pizoxuat]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I agree 100%, the funny thing is DAO and ME2 have almost competely the same total sales numbers. Granted ME2 isn't yet available on PS3 (January) but still, to say there's not a big enough market to support the type of hardcore classic CRPG that Origins is is laughable and outright false.

I'd like to see some evidence to this.

But you're 100% correct, we're not longer the target demographic, as most of the target demographic isn't old enough to appreciate titles like BG/BG2/IWD etc.

Back in my day, we used to walk uphill to school. Both ways!

Pffft, back in my day we made our own maps with graph paper.  Oh Wizardry... just imagine the terrible demand threads I could make if I decided to start a crusade to turn DA2 into you.  I will accept no other copy protection scheme than a code wheel printed on maroon paper!

This is why I am totally addicted to the Etrian Odyssey series.

[Lyssistr]

Merced256 wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Merced256 wrote...
I know capitalism is king and we've all been bred to love and defend it until our very deaths but, aren't there like stories predating the bible about the souless pursuit/hoarding of "dough." But hey, those are old-folk stories. They don't know ****, or ever knew **** to begin with.

Actually this has nothing to do with capitalism, it's just a target group shift. Even companies in the former SU would do that. 

If their sales/production cost will be better with DA2 still remains to be seen, so don't appraise the move before it brings any fruits.

It don't agree, though i admit i have no evidence on hand other than recent history. From my point of veiw, and i'm certainly welcoming to anything that might change it mind you, that making DA2 more of a cinematic experience akin to ME2 will do nothing but boost DA's popularity in circles and demographics in which a DA:O claiming to be the spiritual successor to BG2 wouldn't. I've held this belief pretty much since the 30 seconds to mars trailer came out, bioware is obviously looking to break in to that market with another game. I don't blame then, but i do lament it.

A game can go bad for many reasons, short development times may bring bugs, making the old & loyal fanbase angry may show up on sales (it's the first Bio game I won't be buying or buying at 5 pounds), going aRPG may collide with releases on the same subgenre. There are many reasons why a game may not go well. It may even be bad for their long position, people may buy it (because e.g. they liked DAO) and not buy the next game they make.

At this point any prediction is totally premature. I wouldn't bet on DA2 revenues being higher than DAO until I actually see it happening.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Merced256 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I see no real reason why these features still can't make great games. I love the old school features DAO has.

But aren't they keeping the Iso view for DA2? 

Also about the silent protagonist, that was like... the biggest complaint from everywhere when DA:O came out. People were like "OMFG WHY DOES MY GUY NOT TALK?". While I suspect they will maybe do it at a later date (should our wardens return as a protagonist, they'd have to do it for example) the likelyhood of it isn't too high if only to make the reviewers shut up.

I don't recall this, was this from reviewers or the posting community? If its the reviewers then i have to laugh because they get nothing but bashed by one side or the other and according to this forum represent no one because of various reasons listed in those threads.

It was from the console crowd mostly, complete with leet speak and sentences like "y my guy no spek!"