480 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I still have the BG series at the top of my list too. Great writing, high adventure and more illusion of player freedoms. Dragon Age was pretty close in the writing department. I could care less about fully voiced dialogue, especially a voiced protagonist. I have an imagination and I plan to use it! What I can't do is turn off a monotoned Male Shepard during akward dialogue without missing what some of the other characters are saying. Use voice acting where it counts, not just because you can...like Irenicus' final speech, that rocked.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Something about BG2 interaction made them seem more real. Maybe it's because a lot of it was left to the interpretation and imagination, or maybe it was because they weren't initated always by you - they just happened. In various places of the world, at various times.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I liked that aspect too, unless Jaheira wanted to talk about Kahlid's death at...say...THE MIDDLE OF A SHADOW DRAGON FIGHT!



Yep, it happened before, and it was pretty darn funny. I think the dragon decided to break for tea and crumpets (that's draconic for candied baby heads). I did enjoy the random dialogues other than that one time however.

[biomag]

Yes, give those NPC a life of their own. I don't need to be a chick magnate in every game. Those romances are so f***ed up boring and easy to get, I would rather watch Bethany or others and how their relationships turn out (Jaheira and Khalid. Great story!). Either make a romance that ends up in marriage like Fable 2 (just not that plain and stupid... "Oh, look I dance, now can I screw you?" "Darling, you are so fantastic, yes do me good in front of our children and half the neighborhood that is standing in our house!") or keep those pointless flirts to a minimum. While they weren't really bad at ME and DA:O, this time the story goes through a decade, there must be more than going to bed together. There should be children (visible and not just in an epilogue) and a really deep relationship (No happy ending needed. As only Morrigan's story was something that touched you, all others were automatic wins without any dramatic or emotional moments).

Modifié par biomag, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:15 .

[Dreadstruck]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I liked that aspect too, unless Jaheira wanted to talk about Kahlid's death at...say...THE MIDDLE OF A SHADOW DRAGON FIGHT!

Yep, it happened before, and it was pretty darn funny. I think the dragon decided to break for tea and crumpets (that's draconic for candied baby heads). I did enjoy the random dialogues other than that one time however.

I don't get these kind of complaints. Jaheira, Aerie or Viccy never started a romance banter during a dungeon fight unless I left it.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Avalla'ch wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I liked that aspect too, unless Jaheira wanted to talk about Kahlid's death at...say...THE MIDDLE OF A SHADOW DRAGON FIGHT!

Yep, it happened before, and it was pretty darn funny. I think the dragon decided to break for tea and crumpets (that's draconic for candied baby heads). I did enjoy the random dialogues other than that one time however.

I don't get these kind of complaints. Jaheira, Aerie or Viccy never started a romance banter during a dungeon fight unless I left it.

Yeah never happened to me either, perhaps they are using mods that interfere with when party members start conversations.

Modifié par Mr Mxyzptlk, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[TMZuk]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Those of you old enough to remember Baldur's Gate 2, which in my opinion was one of Bioware's crowning achievements, would no doubt recall the often hostile interactions between potential rival LIs of the PC. I loved it, for obvious reasons. I also loved the funny things they would say at times, particularly Minsc - the references to whom you can't help but notice in ME2. Particularly inspiring was even the limited degree of intercompanion relations. As I recall there was a romance that flared between two separate companions in the story aside from the standard LI for the PC.
I, personally, would love to see that kind of interaction in DA2. Whatever happened to companions flirting with each other and disappearing into each others' tents.
I think it would help make the companions seem a little more believable if they interacted with each other to a fuller extent... how about a little bit of competition for the PC in the world of romance?
Thoughts, people?

Not just that.

In spite of being hampered by the rather silly AD&D 2nd edition rules, BG2 is simply the best game Bioware has ever produced. That is particularly amusing, since a while back I read an interview with Bioware about the creation of BG/BG2 and how they were afraid back then, that they'd never be able to surpass it. Well, indeed they were never able to do so.

Those two games, using the amazing mod called The Big Picture has never left my computer. They are together with Darklands the ultimate in cRPG's to date, IMO.

[Sharn01]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Avalla'ch wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I liked that aspect too, unless Jaheira wanted to talk about Kahlid's death at...say...THE MIDDLE OF A SHADOW DRAGON FIGHT!

Yep, it happened before, and it was pretty darn funny. I think the dragon decided to break for tea and crumpets (that's draconic for candied baby heads). I did enjoy the random dialogues other than that one time however.

I don't get these kind of complaints. Jaheira, Aerie or Viccy never started a romance banter during a dungeon fight unless I left it.

Yeah never happened to me either, perhaps they are using mods that interfere with when party members start conversations.

I think I recall a conversations getting broken by combat from time to time before they patched it, I dont recall ever hearing about one starting in combat.  I guess you could have it happen in the Shadow Dragon chamber, since he ignores you unless you go pick a fight with him, but not during the actual fight, and it still sounds odd, as most conversations dont take place in dungeons unless specifically flagged for it.

[foodstuffs]

I've had combat interrupted by conversations from time to time as well.  I remember once I was fighting vampires and Jaheira wanted to talk.... the funny thing is that one of the conversation options was, "This is not a good time." 

I think DA:O should have been about Alistair's life as a Warden, start to finish (or at least until The Final Battle), and his struggle to maintain the "Good Standards" of the Wardens throughout the game.  This would have made the Circle choices seem more relevant and not just good vs evil, same for Orzammar (especially so I think).  It would have been much more personal.  Alistair had real/tangible motivation after Ostagar, the PC did not.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Never had conversations triggered in mid-fight. Could be some trigger went haywire.



I loved those situational talk. Like Arie and Anomen talking about the sunset. Or Nalia commenting about the docks...etc..

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I believe I was playing a finalized patched version of BG 2, it happened years ago and it kind of made me laugh a bit but otherwise didn't bother me.

[krasnoarmeets]

I recall having a convo initiate immediately after a fight, but on my most recent playthrough which was a couple of months back, I didn't have it happen during.

I do recall having it happen way back the first time I played BG2, but that was before it was patched.



I think one of the parts that I enjoyed the most about the characters in the BG series was their vulnerability because it made them so real.

I loved the way they initiated most of the best conversations. I had a particular weakness at the time for Aerie because she was so neurotic and believably so. Obviously I wouldn't typically go for a woman who had so many issues, but the characters were so realistic that they got inside your head. It was heartbreaking to hear her cry.

Jaheira and Viconia were also awesome. Jaheira had recently lost her husband and was conflicted in her feelings for your character and it also affected her self confidence, although she had previously been overflowing with it.

Viconia was a hard*** drow b*tch, but she wasn't nearly as tough as she made out. These characters were all scarred in one or another and your actions could help to fix their dysfunctions.

They came across like real human beings (although all technically elves - you know what I mean) with real faults and vulnerabilities.

The non-romance-able characters too. Especially Minsc. He was part of the comic relief and fortunately in BG2 all of the humour was actually funny, unlike in DAO and Awakening where Anders just comes across like a retard (plus he looks too much like Alistair).

While I do like some of the characters in DAO, they're missing the depth and realism that the characters have in BG2. Torment was the same as BG2.

If Bioware can pull off a character and story experience like BG2, if they can make us believe in the characters (depth and realism here with real world vulnerabilities and weaknesses), sympathise with them and join them on their emotional rollercoaster ride then we'll all be in for a treat with DA2.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Keep in mind that me mentioning that it happened to me during a fight was just me finding the situation humorous. I would rather it happen randomly during a fight than not happen at all. I enjoyed the random conversations, they added a refreshing spontaneous element to the game.

[krasnoarmeets]

It was often funny the way they were suddenly sprung upon you. I found the three-way cat-fights particularly amusing.
Actually, the arguments just between Aerie and Jaheira were awesome.
Aerie would complain and Jaheira would put her down, then Aerie would remind her that she has a recently dead husband who is likely turning in his grave for having been discarded so soon.

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 13 septembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_tips.php

The link above contains a download to BG2 inter-party banters. Just re-reading them gives me goose bumps. they really were good. And they had a lot of specific triggers. Sometimes teh NPCs did thing mid-talk. Like attack someone, or move somewhere or casting a spell.

Let me put a few chosen ones here:

(Aerie below 10 hit points)
Jaheira: You mustn’t let yourself get so wounded, Aerie.  I won’t always be here to bandage you, you know.  
Aerie: I’m a healer too, Jaheira.
Jaheira: And what good are your spells now.  You should be more frugal and not cast them all at once.  
Aerie: Y-Yes ma’am.
Jaheira: And don’t stutter, it doesn’t become you.

(Aerie below 10 hits points again)
Jaheira: I see you are hurt, child.  I will carry what extra I can if it will lighten your load.
Aerie: I am not weak, Jaheira, and you were as likely to be hurt as I.
Jaheira: I have more experience in battle, Aerie.  Any wound I recieved might have killed you comparatively.  
Aerie: So you say, but I shall not learn avoidance of such by cowering behind.



Aerie: Why do you talk to yourself Edwin?
Edwin: What?  Oh, why, hello Aerie.  I, ah... don’t do anything of the... (No, now is not the time to make arguments).  Why are you asking?
Aerie: I - I was just wondering when I get to meet him.
Edwin: (There’s no one to meet).  There’s no one to meet.  Get away from me!  You’ll make me crazy, you will, and I’ll not have two pieces of it!!


(while Edwin’s a woman)
Anomen: Hay, Edwina!  I shall be your champion at the next tournament that we come to if only you give me a piece of your robe, uh, that is, dress to adorn my shield.
Edwin: (My condition draws fools like flies to honey) Silence, you idiot!  You’ve a death wish that is larger than your swollen head.
Anomen: Fair Edwina, I am truly bereft by your non-acceptance.  It is tragic when a knight has no fair maiden to moon over.  He he he ...



Korgan: Aerie, ye wingless freak!  Ye better spend some time practisin’ yer spells afore the next battle!  I won’t put with anymore of yer screw-ups!
Aerie: Leave me alone, you brute.  I’m in no mood for this today.
Korgan: Aye, yer never in the mood for nothin’ but weepy sentimentality!  Stop playin’ adventurer and crawl back to yer cage in the circus!  At least if people pay a copper or two to see yer gangly, misshapen form ye might be worth somethin’!
Aerie: I can look after myself, you vile little man!  (CHARNAME) knows I can hold my own when the rough stuff starts!
Korgan: Yer nothin’ but a scrawny, whinin’, stump-backed, miscastin’ mage wannabe!
Aerie: I’m sick of your insults, you bastard!  You’re worth less than the feces of an unwashed kobold!  You’re stupid, bigoted, mean, small minded and small membered!  Now leave me alone or I’ll cast a spell of withering on that pathetic excuse for a manhood you’re always scratching at between your legs!
Korgan: Aye, that’s I been waitin’ for!  You’ll be blushin’ fer a week when ye calm down and realize what y’eve said, lassie!  My work here is done - Har, har, har!


(Still a woman)
Edwin: What!?  Why do you stare at me so, barbarian!?
Minsc: You bear handsome features, though they are familiar, too.  Edwin’s sister perhaps?  Aye, Boo sees the resemblance?  You are his superior in your manner though.
Edwin: I AM Edwin you fool!  Can you not comprehend this!?
Minsc: I don’t do well with the philosophical.  You are Edwin?  Ah, like Minsc is Boo and Boo is Minsc because we carry each other within.  Do you like hamsters?  Boo likes you.
 
Edwin: If you do not wish to be the proud owner of a very small rug you will get that hamster away from me. 
Minsc: I see more and more of Edwin in your tone, though you are still better than he.  Boo will forgive you, for now.
Edwin: (I will kill ALL of them.  Slowly.  With ... with HOT pokey things and ... and coals and ... and prods.  Yessss, prods. Many, many prods.)
Minsc: I think she warms to our company, Boo.  See how she looks longingly?  


Edwin: You wield a formidable blade indeed, warrior.  Tell me, Minsc, what is the opposite of a lesson? 
Minsc: Opposite of lesson ... less one ... more on!  The opposite of less on is more on!  More on?  Do you dare to insults me again?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 13 septembre 2010 - 08:23 .

[TanithAeyrs]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_tips.php

The link above contains a download to BG2 inter-party banters. Just re-reading them gives me goose bumps. they really were good. And they had a lot of specific triggers. Sometimes teh NPCs did thing mid-talk. Like attack someone, or move somewhere or casting a spell.

Let me put a few chosen ones here:

Those were wonderful.  I never put the belt on Edwin - I need to make another playthrough to do that.  I really did become very attached to the DA:O characters, but the BG2 characters just felt more natural - and I really do miss Minsc and Boo (butt-kicking for goodness - I think every party I ever played included them in both BG1 and BG2) .  I think I liked the romances better in DA:O though, Anomen was really hard to put up with until you finished his personal quest (of course I didn't really like Zevran until near the end of my first playthrough and now I can't bring myself to romance anyone else).  I never finished BG2 with a male PC so not sure about the female LI's but from the talk on the old Bioware boards they were better than Anomen.

[TMZuk]

OMG. ALL the times I've played that game, and I never thought to give Edwin the belt! I'll have to try that! What an absolutely fabulous game it is!

[Vulee94]

TanithAeyrs wrote...
Those were wonderful.  I never put the belt on Edwin - I need to make another playthrough to do that.  I really did become very attached to the DA:O characters, but the BG2 characters just felt more natural - and I really do miss Minsc and Boo (butt-kicking for goodness - I think every party I ever played included them in both BG1 and BG2) .  I think I liked the romances better in DA:O though, Anomen was really hard to put up with until you finished his personal quest (of course I didn't really like Zevran until near the end of my first playthrough and now I can't bring myself to romance anyone else).  I never finished BG2 with a male PC so not sure about the female LI's but from the talk on the old Bioware boards they were better than Anomen.

You don't need to put the belt on him, just wait a bit and do his sidequest.

[KalDurenik]

I have to agree. While DAO is fun and while im sure DA2 is going to be fun. In my opinion the first game did not hold a candle against BG2. And sadly from reading the "we want more cinematic experience" the "wheel of doom" and so on that DA2 wont hold a candle to BG2 either.



If i wished for more cinematic experience i would *GASP* watch a movie... I mean there are even interactive movies now days where you can decide what the people in the movie do (not very common but there are).

I dont want the game to play itself. I want to think what spell to use, where to stand, how to kill the next target, like living characters.



Not "Hey the people over there dont look very nice i better put my ranged ontop of the hill over there before i talk to them"... Wait? All my character got teleported to the conversation? Well thats pointles... More spells and abilities to counter thins. More character choices on how to put points.



Sadly the good old days are over. Now days people only care about the shiny stuff on the screen.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

OriginsIsBest wrote...

Ahh BG...why do they not make games like that anymore? why?

Because in those days, RPGs were like reading a book (literally, only 1% of dialogue was voiced, I felt I've gone deaf while playing the game which really killed the experience). IMO Old RPGs aren't in the least bit immersive 'cos of that.

Now, most of the budget is spent of voice acting, and RPGs are more like watching a movie (which is faaaaar better IMO)

I never finished BG 'cos the "no voice acting" part which made the game really dull. I looked past it in PS: T and Fallout 'cos they were short, but still they're not anywhere near my top 10 RPGs (I do read books in case you're wondering). PS: T had a great unique story and if it was ever remade it'd be in my top 5 RPGs. But with the barely any voice acting part and the isometric view it just isn't that good

I get the feeling most of you love it mostly 'cos of nostalgia since it was your first RPG. I really doubt anyone that played KOTOR, ME or DAO first would say BG is better

I am going to have to disagree with you there Caine, the Baldur's Gate series would rank at the top of my favorite RPG list, far above KOTOR, ME and DAO and the reason is not nostalgia. Dispite the lack of voice acting and its hardware limitations the Baldur's Gate series drew me in far more than KOTOR, ME, and DAO ever did, a lot of this is because the game had a far better story, characters and was set in a far more interesting world but I also think that part of it was that the game left a lot more to the imagination of the player. Perhaps for the younger generation of players like yourself who lack an imagination Mass Effect is the better option however I will take BG2 over anything Bioware has created since any day. 

It's not a BG2 nostalgia thread without smug elitism!

[krasnoarmeets]

This is most definitely not about nostalgia. This is about style and quality of content. Quality storytelling - not flashy cinematics which seem to be the only thing you get these days. Interesting, flawed and very quirky characters who each have a life of their own, not a grinning buffoon who tells stupid jokes all the time. I prefer a real game that makes you think and use your imagination to an interactive movie that occasionally gives you the illusion that you're going to make a choice that matters. I want the stellar content and the depth of immersion that you get in BG2. Those were characters that I really got attached to. 

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:26 .

[Cariborne]

I like the companion discussion a lot, I also like the humour that is involved, which is why I involved Alistair in most of my parties. He bickered with Morrigan, treated Wynne like a grandmother and was made fun of by everyone. It was awesome.



There is some discussion between LI's though, Zevran tries to talk Morrigan into a three-way if you're romancing both, Morrigan and Leliana argue constantly, with Leliana calling her a **** if Morrigan admits to sleeping with the warden. It's quite awesome.

[Lotion Soronarr]

BG2 nostaliga?

Hardly..played it against a few months ago..was still as epic as ever. Nope, can't chalk this one to my faulty memory...



And damn you all, now I got the urge to play it AGAIN!

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I think I'm going to install it again too. I wish I could get my old character generator program to work to make demi-human paladins and such (oh the heresy!). I can also enjoy playing my favorite class combo, the mage/thief!