480 réponses à ce sujet

[krasnoarmeets]

I have the urge to play it again too!

[David Gaider]

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

[Dynamomark]

Bioware should turn non-profit and dedicate itself to serving its old fans.

[Maconbar]

David Gaider wrote...

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

How about more KOTOR-like then?

[silentassassin264]

Dynamomark wrote...

Bioware should turn non-profit and dedicate itself to serving its old fans.

If they turned non-profit, they wouldn't be serving its old fans very long.  No one is going to volunteer to make games just for nostalgia's sake.  

[foodstuffs]

David Gaider wrote...

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

For what it's worth, even though I may seem to ***** a lot, I appreciate this post and your efforts very much.  Also, I always appreciate your posts in general, even if I may not always agree.

[Blastback]

David Gaider wrote...

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

I think that almost all of us can understand that.  Stuid market not existing for BG2 style games<_<

But would it be possible to have NPC party members begin romantic relationships with each other in game?  I think that that's what the OP was asking.

[iampool]

David Gaider wrote...

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

This is the sadest thing i've read in a while, seriously.

[Anarchosyn]

David, thank you for the response but, to broach the question again, I fail to connect your commentary to the OP's question. Sure, a game like BG2 is financially infeasible but why would these interactions be? Especially given the larger staff, it's not like these need to be epic plot points (I'm making more of a reference to the romantic elements of the OP's post not the infighting which, at least as window-dressing, certainly existed in DA:O).

I'm all for being realistic in outlook and developmental expectation but you offer us an unusually intimate environment here for discussion and this is a really good question to have cleared up (so I apologize for laboring this point).

Is it a code complexity issue or a time issue? I'm speaking less to DA2 and more towards future developments (i.e. obviously with DA1 and 2 a large chunk of the time is spent building / optimizing the engine, getting technical issues ironed out and framing the artistic direction. However, doesn't the inevitable sequel which won't demand such extensive under the hood mechanics allow for adding such nuances or is there something even more systemic to the process which inhibits these flourishes).

Every time I play a game I always ask myself "why didn't they fix that seam in the texture" or "why don't those companions interact more." Unlike many here, I readily assume there is a decent explanation but  have to resign myself with never knowing. Ultimately, in the OP's case, I'm just curious whether it's time or a technical restriction (i.e. too many scripts running in the background causing issues, etc).    

Modifié par Anarchosyn, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:35 .

[Dynamomark]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Dynamomark wrote...

Bioware should turn non-profit and dedicate itself to serving its old fans.

If they turned non-profit, they wouldn't be serving its old fans very long.  No one is going to volunteer to make games just for nostalgia's sake.  

They do in my dreams though.

[David Gaider]

Blastback wrote...
But would it be possible to have NPC party members begin romantic relationships with each other in game?  I think that that's what the OP was asking.

Well, I was responding to where the thread was heading-- not the OP's question in particular.

I suppose party members could romance each other. We've talked about it off and on-- I just don't remember it being all that fondly thought-of even back in BG2. If we did it again I think it'd have to be at the player's direction, as opposed to them simply being a spectator. Hard to say. That question doesn't have anything to do with BG2 in particular, beyond that fact that words were far cheaper back in those days so adding more never seemed like much of an obstacle.

Modifié par David Gaider, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:36 .

[Perfect-Kenshin]

David Gaider wrote...

Blastback wrote...
But would it be possible to have NPC party members begin romantic relationships with each other in game?  I think that that's what the OP was asking.

Well, I was responding to where the thread was heading-- not the OP's question in particular.

I suppose party members could romance each other. We've talked about it off and on-- I just don't remember it being all that fondly thought-of even back in BG2. If we did it again I think it'd have to be at the player's direction, as opposed to them simply being a spectator. Hard to say. That question doesn't have anything to do with BG2 in particular, beyond that fact that words were far cheaper back in those days so adding more never seemed like much of an obstacle.

I don't think too fondly of it myself. I'm the main character and everything should revolve around me. Leave matters which in no way concern Hawke to fanfiction.

[Stefanocrpg_rev91]

Anyhow, though Baldur's Gate 2 is my favourite game, Dragon Age: Origins is better in some things.
Companions and other NPCs are less stereotypical and have better personalities, there more banters and interaction between them, the other NPCs and the player (while in BG2 you had many dialogues only with LI), in DAO there are more checks based on race, class, abilities and everything (heck, in BG2 there wasn't even persuasion nor any non-combat-related ability).
BG2 was better in the gameplay, it was harder, more satisfying, more balanced, the quests were more and more various and intriguing, the enemies were very very different the one from the other unlike DAO (goblins, orcs, mind flayers, beholders, even dragons), it had a better interface and was longer, but in the roleplay elements DAO is a step forward imo. And I say this even if BG2 is still my favourite game, as I already said.
So certainly a step in the direction of BG2 is something I'd definetely like, but especially in the gameplay side, because in other things DAO is already better (still, not in the overall result imo but it's a great game nonetheless).

Modifié par Stefanocrpg_rev91, 14 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[Knight Templar_]

David Gaider wrote...

That question doesn't have anything to do with BG2 in particular, beyond
that fact that words were far cheaper back in those days so adding more
never seemed like much of an obstacle.

That is still a strange thought. Being limited in what characters say. I mean, it makes sense but it's a strange thing to wrap your head around.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

David Gaider wrote...

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

You mean they didn't store you in a cryogenic casing after the BG 2 was written with a note on the outside labeled "break for nostalgia?" Man...my expectations of what it's like to work at Bioware are WAY off!

Please tell me they still give all their employees space hampsters with personalized liscense plates to ride to work on!

If not...then I guess I'll take off my Minsc costume now...and take a shower, I've been wearing it for twelve years so I'll likely need a pry bar.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

I think I'm going to install it again too. I wish I could get my old character generator program to work to make demi-human paladins and such (oh the heresy!). I can also enjoy playing my favorite class combo, the mage/thief!

Shadowkeeper should be able to do exactly that for you, if that's not the program you meant. I managed to get it to run out of the box on Win 7, so hopefully compatability won't be an issue.

I've tried to play through BG. I really have. But the AD&D rules are one thing that I'm glad BioWare moved away from, even the 3.0/3.5 rules made both roll and role playing considerably easier. I will get back to it eventually though.

On topic, I really liked the idea behind the inter-party romances, if I've already told a character "I'm not interested," why not let them flirt/romance someone else, as long as I'm not romancing their partner? Even if it has to be one of the characters coming to me for advice to start it, it adds something to the characters.

[Bryy_Miller]

Dynamomark wrote...

Bioware should turn non-profit and dedicate itself to serving its old fans.

I see what you did there.

[Blastback]

David Gaider wrote...

Blastback wrote...
But would it be possible to have NPC party members begin romantic relationships with each other in game?  I think that that's what the OP was asking.

Well, I was responding to where the thread was heading-- not the OP's question in particular.

I suppose party members could romance each other. We've talked about it off and on-- I just don't remember it being all that fondly thought-of even back in BG2. If we did it again I think it'd have to be at the player's direction, as opposed to them simply being a spectator. Hard to say. That question doesn't have anything to do with BG2 in particular, beyond that fact that words were far cheaper back in those days so adding more never seemed like much of an obstacle.

Yeah, with them being only partialy voiced.  I got you. 

[David Gaider]

Knight Templar wrote...
That is still a strange thought. Being limited in what characters say. I mean, it makes sense but it's a strange thing to wrap your head around.

Even if there's no voice-over and cinematics attached to dialogue, you still have to consider translation costs. Ten years ago, the cost of translating BG2 into different languages amounted to about $1 per word. That wasn't a cheap development cost for a small company to bear.

If there's no translation-- well, then you can include as many words as you think your audience has the patience to read. Which is dwindling, I think (or, at least, that's the common perception).

[Blastback]

David Gaider wrote...

Knight Templar wrote...
That is still a strange thought. Being limited in what characters say. I mean, it makes sense but it's a strange thing to wrap your head around.

Even if there's no voice-over and cinematics attached to dialogue, you still have to consider translation costs. Ten years ago, the cost of translating BG2 into different languages amounted to about $1 per word. That wasn't a cheap development cost for a small company to bear.

If there's no translation-- well, then you can include as many words as you think your audience has the patience to read. Which is dwindling, I think (or, at least, that's the common perception).

Now that is sad

[Saibh]

David Gaider wrote...

Knight Templar wrote...
That is still a strange thought. Being limited in what characters say. I mean, it makes sense but it's a strange thing to wrap your head around.

If there's no translation-- well, then you can include as many words as you think your audience has the patience to read. Which is dwindling, I think (or, at least, that's the common perception).

Now, that makes me sad. So long as they aren't Braid-style walls of text, I like dialogues and conversations.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

I understand that but at the same time I wonder though- how do people in the industry know that a game more in the vein of BG2 wouldn't be profitable or successful in today's market if no one is even trying to make one? I mean I can remember earlier in DAO's development that some of the marketing speak was that DAO was basically taking the core of BG and dressing it up with modern technology (which it pretty much was). Wasn't DA successful, both critically and commercially?

I'd love to see BioWare do an old school iso view text only BG style RPG- obviously not as a huge, big budget project but even as an experimental DLC or some smaller project to lead in to a core DA game maybe. I like some voice acting in games and all, but it just seems its gotten to the point now where VO (and especially player VO) is eating away at content and player choice such that we're just playing interactive movies. I'm reminded of this Escapist article on the topic of VO and player choice .

/ends rant:wizard:

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 septembre 2010 - 03:36 .

[Knight Templar_]

David Gaider wrote...

If there's no translation-- well, then you can include as many words as you think your audience has the patience to read. Which is dwindling, I think (or, at least, that's the common perception).

Glad to know you've faith in your audiance.

[Bryy_Miller]

Brockololly wrote...
. I'm reminded of this Escapist article on the topic of VO and player choice .

To be fair, that article is not the most unbiased thing ever.