480 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenSoda]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Do people really think everything needs to be fully voice-acted?
If full VO is what keeps games like BG2 from happening again, then to hell with VO!

I think David already addressed this point.

It's not really that *everyone* thinks full voice over is a must (I certainly don't and have stated so many times on the BW forums over the years) -it's just the general consensus in the media that any RPG not having full VO simply isn't "up to date". So releasing a RPG without it would simply be seen as a (quite huge) flaw. (F3 really was the last game getting away with it. DA:O already got critized a lot for it.)

I also remember -shortly after the release of DA:O- a lot of people complaining on this very forum about the silent PC.

DA:O was most likely the last non fully voiced RPG from BW. Ever.

I think that's sad, because VO has a huge impact on overall game size and amount of dialogue choices -but that's simply the way things go.

Modifié par GreenSoda, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[TMZuk]

DarkSpiral wrote...

TMZuk wrote...
As I wrote: DA:O is sold on THREE platforms. X-box, PS and PC. BG2 was only sold on ONE, PC. So no, then one million isn't a whole lot.

I don't quite follow why that matters.  The diversification of platforms can take away from some of the profit, I suppose, seeing as it costs money to make to game work on all three, but how does that really trivialize the fact that one million more people have bought Dragon Age?

No, seriously, if you can break that down, please do.

Well, quite simply, you sell games to people who only buy PS games or X-box games, and who never picks up a PC game.

Besides that, A cRPG that sells in excess of  two million copies, can only be hailed as a succes, even after todays standards. How you can say that a game-company today could never survive on the sales BG2 had, is somewhat beyond me.

Modifié par TMZuk, 14 septembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[AlanC9]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...
Companions had more personality, for example. They did much more than following your around, lending you their swords and spells and throwing in occasional remarks of "approval" or "disapproval." There were times they had their own issues to tend to. Sometimes they needed to leave the party temporarily; sometimes they had their little flings; sometimes they came to blows even when you had nothing to do about it other than keeping them together in the party. And instead of standing over there, waiting for you to "initiate conversation", they'd just up and talk to you if they had something to say. Even romances worked much better (controversial opinion, of course); it wasn't just like, you ask them a couple of questions, kill someone for them and jump on their bedroll. The game had depth. You can have depth and still retain your 3D graphics/camera angles/skill trees. Not saying Dragon Age is shallow as it is, but BG2 had features Bioware never seemed to bother with implementing in their subsequent games.

This strikes me as being largely nonsense.

Most of the things that are mentioned here are in DAO. Some of them are better implemented, such as approval based on specific decisions, as opposed to a general Reputation check and specific intra-party quarrels. And to call BG2 romances better is to reveal a very credulous mind. Most of what happened in those is that you ticked off the clock until the interval to the next LOVETALK was up, then you had a dialog  - which could pop up at an incredibly silly time  - and you didn't say anything egregiously cruel or stupid.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 septembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[Aran Linvail]

TMZuk wrote...

DarkSpiral wrote...

TMZuk wrote...
As I wrote: DA:O is sold on THREE platforms. X-box, PS and PC. BG2 was only sold on ONE, PC. So no, then one million isn't a whole lot.

I don't quite follow why that matters.  The diversification of platforms can take away from some of the profit, I suppose, seeing as it costs money to make to game work on all three, but how does that really trivialize the fact that one million more people have bought Dragon Age?

No, seriously, if you can break that down, please do.

Well, quite simply, you sell games to people who only buy PS games or X-box games, and who never picks up a PC game.

Besides that, A cRPG that sells in excess of  two million copies, can only be hailed as a succes, even after todays standards. How you can say that a game-company today could never survive on the sales BG2 had, is somewhat beyond me.

And not only that , today people have more access to Pcs and Videogames , we have more gamers today , games are on par with movies and Television as entreteriment , but not back in 98 - 99 .
Bg is the King of Rpg's ... No no the God of Rpg's ... No is a entire Pantheon of God's of Rpg' s ... Ok sorry i love BG

Obs - Any grammatical error or something like that is not my fault English is not my country Language or what im trying to say is Sorry for my english

[Aran Linvail]

Acharnae wrote...

In BG even sleeping with someone even if they offered you, could break the romance.
In DAO it's I'm a girl you're a boy or im boy you are a boy or im girl you are a girl let's get in my tent 'cause it's cold. doh

Fixed for you

[maxernst]

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?



I have to confess I never got far into any of the romances in BG2 because I didn't like any of the romantic options--my male PC found Aerie irritating (people complain about Alistair being whiny?), Jaheira arrogant and pushy, and Viconia ****y. And my female Paladin spent the whole game trying to rebuff Anomen, who was just plain obnoxious. I would have rather romanced Valygar, Yoshimo (though that would have ended tragically), maybe even Nalia.



I think a good part of the reason BG2 is so fondly remembered is because its writing was a huge step up from previous RPG's, including its predecessor and the romances were a novelty at the time.

[TMZuk]

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

Modifié par TMZuk, 14 septembre 2010 - 10:59 .

[maxernst]

TMZuk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

That's less than half of them.

[Rzepik2]

Acharnae wrote...

In BG even sleeping with someone even if they offered you, could break the romance.
In DAO it's I'm a girl you're a boy let's get in my tent 'cause it's cold. doh

Hey, Morrigan has her reasons to be "easy".
On the other hand, you can gain "witch gone wild" achievement right after Lothering. Kinda ridiculous. All dialouge options + give her every gift item. The last one I gave was a bottle of alcohol. Wow, thanks Bioware, very educational!

I prefer Vicky over Morrigan. Both are really good, but I'm just sick of talking about Flemeth/what Flemeth said/what Flemeth taught her. Gods!

Modifié par Rzepik2, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:46 .

[Rzepik2]

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

In BG2, everybody except Mazzy and Valygar. IMO of course.
And yes, I think Cernd is an interesting character.

Modifié par Rzepik2, 14 septembre 2010 - 11:40 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

maxernst wrote...
I have to confess I never got far into any of the romances in BG2 because I didn't like any of the romantic options--my male PC found Aerie irritating (people complain about Alistair being whiny?), Jaheira arrogant and pushy, and Viconia ****y. And my female Paladin spent the whole game trying to rebuff Anomen, who was just plain obnoxious. I would have rather romanced Valygar, Yoshimo (though that would have ended tragically), maybe even Nalia.

They're worth it if you persue it. They do change and grow as characters.
Anomen becomes less egositical and more serious, Aeire stops whining and beomces more determined and decisive, etc...


And, yes, I remeber every single BG2 companion perfectly. DA:O companions are good, but BG2 still is superior.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

maxernst wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

That's less than half of them.

Yet even less than half is still more characters than Origins had altogether, how many characters from Origins would you say are memorable?

[nightcobra]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

That's less than half of them.

Yet even less than half is still more characters than Origins had altogether, how many characters from Origins would you say are memorable?

alistair, loghain, cailan, duncan, oghren, leliana, morrigan, bann teagan, sandal, sten, bhelen, harrowmont, shale, dog, irving, gregoir, etc, etc....

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

That's less than half of them.

Yet even less than half is still more characters than Origins had altogether, how many characters from Origins would you say are memorable?

alistair, loghain, cailan, duncan, oghren, leliana, morrigan, bann teagan, sandal, sten, bhelen, harrowmont, shale, dog, irving, gregoir, etc, etc....

This is all a matter of opinion as more than half of those characters I would not call memorable but even drawing on random non party NPCs you still only just match the number of people TMZ mentioned and he was drawing on companions alone. If one were to list the memorable non party NPCs from Baldur's Gate 2 alone we would be here forever.

Modifié par Mr Mxyzptlk, 15 septembre 2010 - 10:58 .

[nightcobra]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

That's less than half of them.

Yet even less than half is still more characters than Origins had altogether, how many characters from Origins would you say are memorable?

alistair, loghain, cailan, duncan, oghren, leliana, morrigan, bann teagan, sandal, sten, bhelen, harrowmont, shale, dog, irving, gregoir, etc, etc....

This is all a matter of opinion as more than half of those characters I would not call memorable but even drawing on random non party NPCs you still only just match the number of people TMZ mentioned and he was drawing on companions alone. If one were to list the memorable non party NPCs from Baldur's Gate 2 alone we would be here forever.

hey, you asked about memorable characters in dragon age, you didn't specify so i gave a list of my most memorable characters in there.

[Rzepik2]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

That's less than half of them.

Yet even less than half is still more characters than Origins had altogether, how many characters from Origins would you say are memorable?

alistair, loghain, cailan, duncan, oghren, leliana, morrigan, bann teagan, sandal, sten, bhelen, harrowmont, shale, dog, irving, gregoir, etc, etc....

....
...a dog....
...and a guy who can only say "hello" and "enchantment"...

Oookay, I think that "memorable" is a damn subjective thing.  Let's leave it.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

maxernst wrote...

There are ways in which I prefer BG2--in particular, the greater variety of enemies and quests. But companions are one area where I much preferred DA:O. They felt much more like real people to me. And lets be honest out of the two dozen companions in BG2, how many were really memorable?

Uhm....

BG: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Viconia, Shar-teel , Xan, Dynaheir, Montaron, Xzar and dear old Edwin the friendly Red Wizard of Thay.

BG2: Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Mazzy , Nalia, Valygar, Jan Jansen, Haer'Dalis and dear old Edwin(a) the former Red Wizard of Thay now turned an even friendlier Shadow Thief employee.

...just on top of my head.

That's less than half of them.

Yet even less than half is still more characters than Origins had altogether, how many characters from Origins would you say are memorable?

alistair, loghain, cailan, duncan, oghren, leliana, morrigan, bann teagan, sandal, sten, bhelen, harrowmont, shale, dog, irving, gregoir, etc, etc....

This is all a matter of opinion as more than half of those characters I would not call memorable but even drawing on random non party NPCs you still only just match the number of people TMZ mentioned and he was drawing on companions alone. If one were to list the memorable non party NPCs from Baldur's Gate 2 alone we would be here forever.

hey, you asked about memorable characters in dragon age, you didn't specify so i gave a list of my most memorable characters in there.

Yeah ok you got me, I should have specified.

[TMZuk]

Well, I don't find Gregoir memorable. Nor Cailan. Nor Harrowmont. Nor Irving. I won't remember any of those in a year from now.



But I guess that is just a matter of opinion.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

To be fair Origins did have its share of memorable characters like the rhyming oak and the mad hermit or Master Wade and Herren, just saying that I prefer the characters from the Baldur's Gate series.

[TMZuk]

There was many good things in DA:O, indeed, and many memorable characters. Otherwise there'd be no reason to be here, or be annoyed with all the changes they plan for DA2.

I just wish they'd make DA2 more like BG2, and not less. BG2 was deeper, more detailed, better written, bigger and more captivating than BG1. DA2 seems to be shorter, more restrictive, even -more- combat orientated then DA:O, and with more money spend on useless fluff, rather than content.

Modifié par TMZuk, 15 septembre 2010 - 12:20 .

[Elvhen Veluthil]

The only one I'll remember from DAO is Sten (and the rhyming oak from NPC's). You can't compare Jaheira to Morrigan-Leliana, Jaheira is by far a more interesting character. You would think that the more someone talks the more we know him/her, but that's not exactly true. We identify more with characters that fit more into the archetype that we have about that character's role, we think them more the way we want them to be and not the way they are. Jaheira in that aspect is the perfect druid/warrior/harper. Cernd is also very memorable, because indeed he is a druid, and not some smartass who can't keep his tongue still (randomly picking one of the DAO companions: alistair).

[zahra]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...

The only one I'll remember from DAO is Sten (and the rhyming oak from NPC's). You can't compare Jaheira to Morrigan-Leliana, Jaheira is by far a more interesting character. You would think that the more someone talks the more we know him/her, but that's not exactly true. We identify more with characters that fit more into the archetype that we have about that character's role, we think them more the way we want them to be and not the way they are. Jaheira in that aspect is the perfect druid/warrior/harper. Cernd is also very memorable, because indeed he is a druid, and not some smartass who can't keep his tongue still (randomly picking one of the DAO companions: alistair).

Urm, loved BG II but saying that you dislike companions because they don't fit the archetype, is kind of.. weird you know. Its basically asking for stereotypical characters. 

[AmstradHero]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...
You would think that the more someone talks the more we know him/her, but that's not exactly true. We identify more with characters that fit more into the archetype that we have about that character's role, we think them more the way we want them to be and not the way they are. Jaheira in that aspect is the perfect druid/warrior/harper.

Whoa there! That's not an indication of good writing, if anything, that's an indication of bad writing. The character that conforms to an archetype that we have pre-imagined indicates a lack of depth in that character's creation, and that we're not actually being delivered a fully realised and three dimensional character, but one that expects us to draw upon our existing knowledge of the world in which that character exists. The character that is new and forces us to get to know them and the different aspects of their personality is actually indicative of a more complex character.

All that said, I'd argue that Jaheira didn't fit an established archetype, and had several facets to her personality. She also had a heck of a lot of dialogue in BG2, especially her ridiculously long romance sub-plot.  However, I found Cernd phenomenally irritating and couldn't stand having him in my party, and I found him to be a bland one-dimensional character to boot.  Compared to the complexity of Alistair's naiveity, bitterness, sorrow, anger, and glibness, he's a dull cardboard cut-out.