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[Suicider_11]

              I'd really love it if they could implement more BG2 style conversations and banter with the main protagonist in DA2. I wish they could implement party banter like Return to Ostagar where characters interact after a battle/ subquest. They could also try to involve Hawke in certain arguments between party members similar to BG2 and romances between party members would be also cool. 
              But despite my suggestions  I trust Bioware to do their thing to surprise us with a game with  better character depth, plotline, and character interactions and relationships in DA2 (even better than we could think since thay have a good record of developing good if not excellent games) . They already shown and told us that  trying to make the combat better ( although more gameplay combat videos in the future would make things more clearer). I also hope they could show us how they are making the plot, character depth and interactions better than the last game.

:happy::happy::happy:

[Rzepik2]

AmstradHero wrote...
However, I found Cernd phenomenally irritating and couldn't stand having him in my party, and I found him to be a bland one-dimensional character to boot.  Compared to the complexity of Alistair's naiveity, bitterness, sorrow, anger, and glibness, he's a dull cardboard cut-out.

Hey, that's untrue. Cernd takes off hippie mask during his personal quest. And what is the most important - the great oak might crush a building when it falls, but the sapling that seeps its roots through the foundation will stop the building in the first, lest the cellars leak and the fungoids take the builders. As the trees are buffeted and snapped in the face of the gale, he shall be as the bamboo and flex!

Modifié par Rzepik2, 15 septembre 2010 - 01:45 .

[Elvhen Veluthil]

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, myself also. If you want a smartass character, that would be Morte from Planescape, he is right to the point of being just that. All the companion from DAO have a very common-sense logic, they just behave like real people in real life would do if they were teleported in a fantasy world. I don't like that, to the endless comments of Alistair I prefer the one-dimensional Cernd, if you could recognize him for what he was, without needing him to prove you that he had other aspects of his personality that I wouldn't care at all to learn during my quest to get my soul back. I want to explore the world and adventure without limits, that's why in BG series I never really cared about any of the romance plots, definitely didn't initiate one at the first playthrough, and later just saw what's all that about.



So to speak, I enjoy traveling in silence with my companions, doing all the chit-chat when we rest at the camp, near the fire, drinking some good old wine our thief stole from a cellar somewhere. In DA2 not just only everyone else, but the PC also will speak his own mind. I just have to figure out how will I fit in there, beside smashing the keys in my keyboard and getting disgusted by all that blood that flows everywhere.

[gingerbill]

Mr gaider i found your comments on this thread very intresting , great read .



I just played BG1 & 2 and KOTOR and Jade empire again recently . DAO i think stands up to any of them and is probably my favourite . BG2 combat hasnt aged well at all going back to it , i'd forgotten how luck based and inane it was , dont get me wrong its a classic but to claim its somehow much better than DAO is rose tinted glasses. I cared alot more about my companions in DAO than BG2 . KOTOR and jade empire were still alot of fun , loved both of them still.

[Rzepik2]

gingerbill wrote...
BG2 combat hasnt aged well at all going back to it , i'd forgotten how luck based and inane it was , dont get me wrong its a classic but to claim its somehow much better than DAO is rose tinted glasses.

Someone on the internet is WRONG!
I can understand that someone prefers DA companions or something... But combat system? Srsly?

Sure, strategy in BG2  combat system is focused almost only on spellcasting. DA:O system seems to be complexed, but it has a lot of useless stuff and terrible game breakers.
Few examples:
Potion spamming + mana & cooldown magic system = willpower is almost useless to mages; no mana management.
Cone of cold (+lowering resistance rarely)  + 3 mages in team = works on everyone (except spider queen, but she's cheating). All boss battles in DA:O are just endless repetitions of short skill combinations.

Modifié par Rzepik2, 15 septembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[RyuAzai]

I always feel so left out. I have never played Baldur's Gate one or Two.



I thought I was able to buy it. Quickly wrestled the game 'Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance' from a young child in gamestop, exclaimed my glee to the salesman at finally able to get this game. For the ps2 even! He agreed, and praised the game saying it'd love it if I loved bioware... As his devilish claws took my money.



Then at home... Well you all probably know the story. This was not the Baldur's gate I was looking for. Though I think Amazon has the 'whole' set of expansions.. I just can't afford to be wrong again.

[foodstuffs]

You got ripped of, Ryu, and should demand a refund. The BG games you want are PC only. For recognition sake, the x-pack to BG 1 is Tales of the Sword Coast. The second game is subtitled(?) Shadows of Amn, and the x-pack is Throne of Bhaal.

[Wulfram]

No romance for companions and 10 year timespan makes me feel a little sorry for them

[Chriagon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_tips.php

The link above contains a download to BG2 inter-party banters. Just re-reading them gives me goose bumps. they really were good. And they had a lot of specific triggers. Sometimes teh NPCs did thing mid-talk. Like attack someone, or move somewhere or casting a spell.

Let me put a few chosen ones here:

(Aerie below 10 hit points)
Jaheira: You mustn’t let yourself get so wounded, Aerie.  I won’t always be here to bandage you, you know.  
Aerie: I’m a healer too, Jaheira.
Jaheira: And what good are your spells now.  You should be more frugal and not cast them all at once.  
Aerie: Y-Yes ma’am.
Jaheira: And don’t stutter, it doesn’t become you.

(Aerie below 10 hits points again)
Jaheira: I see you are hurt, child.  I will carry what extra I can if it will lighten your load.
Aerie: I am not weak, Jaheira, and you were as likely to be hurt as I.
Jaheira: I have more experience in battle, Aerie.  Any wound I recieved might have killed you comparatively.  
Aerie: So you say, but I shall not learn avoidance of such by cowering behind.



Aerie: Why do you talk to yourself Edwin?
Edwin: What?  Oh, why, hello Aerie.  I, ah... don’t do anything of the... (No, now is not the time to make arguments).  Why are you asking?
Aerie: I - I was just wondering when I get to meet him.
Edwin: (There’s no one to meet).  There’s no one to meet.  Get away from me!  You’ll make me crazy, you will, and I’ll not have two pieces of it!!


(while Edwin’s a woman)
Anomen: Hay, Edwina!  I shall be your champion at the next tournament that we come to if only you give me a piece of your robe, uh, that is, dress to adorn my shield.
Edwin: (My condition draws fools like flies to honey) Silence, you idiot!  You’ve a death wish that is larger than your swollen head.
Anomen: Fair Edwina, I am truly bereft by your non-acceptance.  It is tragic when a knight has no fair maiden to moon over.  He he he ...



Korgan: Aerie, ye wingless freak!  Ye better spend some time practisin’ yer spells afore the next battle!  I won’t put with anymore of yer screw-ups!
Aerie: Leave me alone, you brute.  I’m in no mood for this today.
Korgan: Aye, yer never in the mood for nothin’ but weepy sentimentality!  Stop playin’ adventurer and crawl back to yer cage in the circus!  At least if people pay a copper or two to see yer gangly, misshapen form ye might be worth somethin’!
Aerie: I can look after myself, you vile little man!  (CHARNAME) knows I can hold my own when the rough stuff starts!
Korgan: Yer nothin’ but a scrawny, whinin’, stump-backed, miscastin’ mage wannabe!
Aerie: I’m sick of your insults, you bastard!  You’re worth less than the feces of an unwashed kobold!  You’re stupid, bigoted, mean, small minded and small membered!  Now leave me alone or I’ll cast a spell of withering on that pathetic excuse for a manhood you’re always scratching at between your legs!
Korgan: Aye, that’s I been waitin’ for!  You’ll be blushin’ fer a week when ye calm down and realize what y’eve said, lassie!  My work here is done - Har, har, har!


(Still a woman)
Edwin: What!?  Why do you stare at me so, barbarian!?
Minsc: You bear handsome features, though they are familiar, too.  Edwin’s sister perhaps?  Aye, Boo sees the resemblance?  You are his superior in your manner though.
Edwin: I AM Edwin you fool!  Can you not comprehend this!?
Minsc: I don’t do well with the philosophical.  You are Edwin?  Ah, like Minsc is Boo and Boo is Minsc because we carry each other within.  Do you like hamsters?  Boo likes you.
 
Edwin: If you do not wish to be the proud owner of a very small rug you will get that hamster away from me. 
Minsc: I see more and more of Edwin in your tone, though you are still better than he.  Boo will forgive you, for now.
Edwin: (I will kill ALL of them.  Slowly.  With ... with HOT pokey things and ... and coals and ... and prods.  Yessss, prods. Many, many prods.)
Minsc: I think she warms to our company, Boo.  See how she looks longingly?  


Edwin: You wield a formidable blade indeed, warrior.  Tell me, Minsc, what is the opposite of a lesson? 
Minsc: Opposite of lesson ... less one ... more on!  The opposite of less on is more on!  More on?  Do you dare to insults me again?

Thanks for posting, brought back some memories.

BG2 will remain Bioware's masterpiece.

[AlanC9]

There's a BG 4-in-1 boxset. In stock at Amazon for $15. Why on earth do people still use stores?

[AlanC9]

gingerbill wrote...

Mr gaider i found your comments on this thread very intresting , great read .

I just played BG1 & 2 and KOTOR and Jade empire again recently . DAO i think stands up to any of them and is probably my favourite . BG2 combat hasnt aged well at all going back to it , i'd forgotten how luck based and inane it was , dont get me wrong its a classic but to claim its somehow much better than DAO is rose tinted glasses. I cared alot more about my companions in DAO than BG2 . KOTOR and jade empire were still alot of fun , loved both of them still.

I'm with you. IE combat isn't especially difficult or interesting if you've got enough brain space to keep all of the buffs/debuffs in your head, and if you've got the patience to set up all your buffs after each rest. It can be fairly hard if you can't or won't do this.

Not to mention that BG2 has a lot of trash fights, much worse than anything in DAO. Though I suppose DAA brings the DA average down a bit.

Modifié par AlanC9, 15 septembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[TMZuk]

AlanC9 wrote...

Not to mention that BG2 has a lot of trash fights, much worse than anything in DAO. Though I suppose DAA brings the DA average down a bit.

Here I must disagree! The trashfights in DA:O was almost getting to the point where I had enough, especially in the Mountain Temple and the Deep Roads. That was a major grieve for me in all of DA:O and yes, even worse in DA:A. Repetitive waves of useless opposition coming at you again and again. It was incredibly annoying.

[TanithAeyrs]

David Gaider wrote...

You know... and I say this as one of the people who wrote BG2... I'm all for nostalgia, but let's not forget that the industry has changed in the last ten years. Not only that but our circumstances have changed. BG2 was a great game, and I'll always remember it fondly, but the company that could survive on its sales would need to be a lot smaller than BioWare is now.

Me, I'd love to work on a game like BG2 again. I'm one of the people in this company that keeps trying to push us as much in that direction as we can go-- but there are limits as to how far that is, and as big a fan as I am of that sort of game I do truly understand why that is. I'm sure nobody enjoys hearing how their favorite type of game isn't considered profitable enough for big companies like they were 10 years ago (here I'm tempted to link to that Escapist article again) but there it is, for good or ill.

Loves Gaider for this.

I think the best chance we have to keep getting decent RPG games is to spend money on them.  I'm afraid that Mr. Gaider is right the "OH, SHINY" crowd tends to guide the market right now, but, hopefully the pendulum will swing back the other way again.  I can't dismiss DA:O as a fun game though - when I finish my DC (probably tonight) I will have a complete play through with every origin except my DN.  I do have hope that DA2 will retain some of the epic RPG elements and the dollars we spend on it will help drive the production of more RPG's. 

I hope I'm wrong but I suspect the days of having an epic like BG2 are over - I read somewhere(a dev post I believe) that it had approximately 1.2 million words of dialog (I believe DA:O has roughly 800,000) and ME a fraction of what DA:O has.   Just for comparison, the average novel has roughly 300,000 words of dialog. 

[Chriagon]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

I hope I'm wrong but I suspect the days of having an epic like BG2 are over - I read somewhere(a dev post I believe) that it had approximately 1.2 million words of dialog (I believe DA:O has roughly 800,000) and ME a fraction of what DA:O has.   Just for comparison, the average novel has roughly 300,000 words of dialog. 

I think it was Mr. Gaider himself who revealed these numbers (BG2 1.2m, DAO 0.9m words). However I don't think that even the 30% difference in the amount of words does reflect the true difference in "epicness" between BG2 and DAO.

I mean it's about 10 years now since I played BG2 for the last time, but I would say that BG2 was around twice as big as DAO and only quality content, no "filling stuff".

Anyway, I agree with you that we probably won't see anything like BG2 again. If not even Bioware can do it anymore these days, who else?

[Nighteye2]

David Gaider wrote...
Even so, in a way the perception becomes the truth. The media plays a big role in this. If you show a game to the media and their reaction is "wow, that looks like something that's way out of date" then that's what they're going to say. If your project isn't viewed as a triple-A game, you're not going to get triple-A coverage. Ask independant game-makers how difficult it is to get media attention and get awareness out there that their game even exists.

But that difficulty is not because of their game, but because they are so unknown as a developer. I would expect every Bioware game to get triple-A coverage just because Bioware made it  - same as with Blizzard games.

[Merci357]

Nighteye2 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Even so, in a way the perception becomes the truth. The media plays a big role in this. If you show a game to the media and their reaction is "wow, that looks like something that's way out of date" then that's what they're going to say. If your project isn't viewed as a triple-A game, you're not going to get triple-A coverage. Ask independant game-makers how difficult it is to get media attention and get awareness out there that their game even exists.

But that difficulty is not because of their game, but because they are so unknown as a developer. I would expect every Bioware game to get triple-A coverage just because Bioware made it  - same as with Blizzard games.

True. If it looks out of date, market it as "retro"... Even big movie studios try some art movies, or support non-mainstream genres. Those don't appeal to every one, of course. But they don't need to, since their budget was also comparatively low. But they still get media coverage due to the big company behind them, and don't discount the fans, those will always flock to their favorite genre.
It's quite sad that other forms of entertainment can be as diverse as their are - cinema, novels, comics, but games get more and more streamlined, with the same tried and true formula reused again and again. Someone will break that pattern. With a different approach, like much shorter - and cheaper - games, but released far more often then today. Or maybe, and now back on topic, someone will revive an old game and have success with it. Ossian Games has something like this in the pipeline. The Shadow Sun sounds promising, but, as an Indie developer, they lack media coverage for now.

[TMZuk]

Merci357 wrote...

.....The Shadow Sun sounds promising, but, as an Indie developer, they lack media coverage for now.

I looked it up, after reading what you wrote here, and you know what? I might just owe you a beer! That looks promising indeed!

[Haexpane]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Those of you old enough to remember Baldur's Gate 2, 

The first time I played BG2 was in 2008-2009

But I am old enough to remember those "good ole days" of 1999? ROFL

[UberDuber]

I wish we could get another up-to-date game like BG. Origins was good, but jesus christ DA2 is way off now.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Haexpane wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Those of you old enough to remember Baldur's Gate 2, 

The first time I played BG2 was in 2008-2009

But I am old enough to remember those "good ole days" of 1999? ROFL

Yikes, I feel old now. I miss installing games through a DOS prompt.

[Ironhammer500]

well i havnt played bg2 so no idea what most of the thread was about xD

but i agree awakening had to few banter lines got really annoying anders kept using his chat up line to the elf mage (forgot her name) he got so annoying i made him my heal bish xD

but i found some of the banters funny espicaly the conflict with alaistar and morrigan.
so why not add more conflicts not everyone likes each other.
Npcs talking to each other outside of party would be nice maybe freindly chatting or agureing and u gotta pick a side like in ME2 depending who u pick affects their affection/Like to hawke
or maybe u could have a scene where some of the npcs do things with the other members like teach them sword moves or how to make some wierd stew thingy that almost kills u xD
another thing u could add is during combat the party memebers could talk like maybe one challenges the others in a "kill the most" comperition.
or if one was in trouble a cry for help from npc1 and npc2 responds and helps.

the npcs need more individalty or better personalties.

Sorry for bad spelling, one i cant spell  2 im tired xD

Modifié par Ironhammer500, 16 septembre 2010 - 12:41 .