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[Nightwriter]

Everyone's doing LotSB threads, so here's mine. If it's been discussed before, prepare to discuss it again!

I notice Shepard's dialogue and character in LotSB seem to be more canonized. You're cast as Liara's friend, you have more unprompted dialogue than ever, and your interactions with Liara are more scripted.

I love it.

It's funny, it's engaging, it's awesome to watch. Shepard seemed so much more like a palpable character to me in this DLC, s/he really came into focus. I saw emotion. It was awesome. I honestly want more of this.

[jlb524]

I did really enjoy it. The only complaint is that if this conflicts with a certain way you would like to roleplay your Shepard, then that kind of sucks. I thought it was all in character for my Shepard, so I was pleased.



But you are right, by limiting the players choices on the dialog wheel, they actually have more flexibility with what they can do with the character. With this DLC, the different dialog options affected the 'flavor' of Shepard's response, but didn't affect anything else, like the relationship with Liara for example. It's not possible to be extremely cruel with her, and no matter how you play it, it seems that Shepard and Liara have become really close friends by the end of the DLC, as well as business partners (in the Reaper killing business).

[Cheese Elemental]

I agree. In this case, less is more. Mass Effect was never a 'go nuts' RPG like Fallout or Oblivion, and I like it that way.

[Cypher0020]

I like it.....it was a good balance of adding onto his/her character and yet the player could also toss an opinion in....



I'm going to try the LOTSB with my LI file soon and test it myself

[Dallas118]

jlb524 wrote...

I did really enjoy it. The only complaint is that if this conflicts with a certain way you would like to roleplay your Shepard, then that kind of sucks. I thought it was all in character for my Shepard, so I was pleased.

But you are right, by limiting the players choices on the dialog wheel, they actually have more flexibility with what they can do with the character. With this DLC, the different dialog options affected the 'flavor' of Shepard's response, but didn't affect anything else, like the relationship with Liara for example. It's not possible to be extremely cruel with her, and no matter how you play it, it seems that Shepard and Liara have become really close friends by the end of the DLC, as well as business partners (in the Reaper killing business).

Well, not inviting her on the ship is not very nice. Not cruel but it seems that your only interest is the business part.
I think sort of "cruel" was if you order her to return on the Normandy at the beginning of the Noveria mission.

[epoch_]

I love the character building for shepard during the cabin conversation. My paragon to the bone cannon shepard went with the "I'm frustrated" option and it really gave him a lot more character IMO.

[Zan51]

I loved it. I have posted it elsewhere, but the whole dialogue sequences betweenthem made both characters come fully alive for the first time for me.
They feel like long term friends, or lovers if you went for her as a LI. I didn't, and yet the friendship my FemShep and Liara had was great.
I love the friendly bickering all the way through but particularly in the car chase. Just how it should be! And the hugs, and consoling chat options... /sigh.. More, please, Bioware!

Modifié par Zan51, 12 septembre 2010 - 01:43 .

[RubiconI7]

Completely agreed.

RPGs these days seems to be too obsessed in the direction of "zealous freedom".

Sometimes, less is more.

Video games in general, no matter how much freedom or choice is given to the player, is still limited to a number of options the game is able to present. More scripted events would not only give more depth, but put the player into a more immersive position instead of taking out of the immersion from the game.

I think the kind of freedom we have today in terms of choice is great, but people will need to be able to express their character. Canon is one way to do it. I am sure developers like Bioware will find more ways for the players to have the option to express and truly interact with the game world.

EDIT FOR SPELLING MISTAKES:D

Modifié par RubiconI7, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[Nightwriter]

^ I agree!

I mean, this deepened my whole perception of Shepard and actually made me love Shepard. I always saw Shepard as a kind of static character before. Because you must be free to define Shepard, Shepard remains undefined.

But this, this was great. I mean, I love Shepard now. I got to talk about my feelings and frustrations. It was glorious.

[GnusmasTHX]

I imagine it'd seem odd for a player who played a jerk Renegade or who never really used Liara, but since my character had always had Liara in their party in ME1 as well as an LI, and played a decent paragon dude, the dialog made sense.

[elmephd1]

Got a agree with the topic creator.

[Dave of Canada]

I didn't like it. I never treated Liara as a friend in ME1 (always insulted her and told her to deal with it), in ME2 I refused to assist her in her hunt and then suddenly my **** Shepard is arguing with Liara like an old married couple and laughing about the good old times. There was no good old times!

I sort-of liked it on my original character that was nice to everybody and found it cute but hated it on my other character. REALLY, REALLY hated it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:23 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Loved the old married couple shtick. Reminded me of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. The dynamic in the chase scene and the battle while unlocking the door was hilarious.

[Nightwriter]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I didn't like it. I never treated Liara as a friend in ME1 (always insulted her and told her to deal with it), in ME2 I refused to assist her in her hunt and then suddenly my **** Shepard is arguing with Liara like an old married couple and laughing about the good old times. There was no good old times!

I sort-of liked it on my original character that was nice to everybody and found it cute but hated it on my other character. REALLY, REALLY hated it.

We shall drag your Grinch Shepard down from Mt. Krumpett and thrust him into the purifying light that is the awesomeness of the Liara DLC!

None can deny the glory of their car chase dialogue! We shall teach the Grinch the true meaning of inter-character interaction! We didn't think it would come, but it came! It came just the same!

It came without ribbons! It came without tags! It came without packages, boxes, or bags!

Modifié par Nightwriter, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:10 .

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

We shall drag your Grinch Shepard down from Mt. Krumpett and thrust him into the purifying light that is the awesomeness of the Liara DLC!

Shepard's heart refused to grow three sizes larger that day!

[JamieCOTC]

Couldn't agree more w/ OP. Having a paragon femShep who romanced Liara, LotSB was just perfect in many ways. That they gave Shep some depth made it a much more enjoyable game, and best of all, they did that without sacrificing gameplay, an argument I have heard before. Agreeing w/ epoch that my paragon Shep got to vent her frustrations was great! However, I kind of see where Dave is coming from. The "scripted answer" missed the mark on my femShep concerning the Cerberus talk w/ Tela Vasir. The renegade/pro-Cerberus response fit, but there wasn't a paragon option at all. Maybe there shouldn't be as Tela Vasir is right, but still my Shep would not have said, "it doesn't matter." Though the system could using some tweaking, what doesn't, yeah, the is a big step in the right direction.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:13 .

[RubiconI7]

Nightwriter wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I didn't like it. I never treated Liara as a friend in ME1 (always insulted her and told her to deal with it), in ME2 I refused to assist her in her hunt and then suddenly my **** Shepard is arguing with Liara like an old married couple and laughing about the good old times. There was no good old times!

I sort-of liked it on my original character that was nice to everybody and found it cute but hated it on my other character. REALLY, REALLY hated it.

We shall drag your Grinch Shepard down from Mt. Crumpet and thrust him into the purifying light that is the awesomeness of the Liara DLC!

None can deny the glory of their car chase dialogue! We shall teach the Grinch the true meaning of inter-character interaction! We didn't think it would come, but it came! It came just the same!

It came without ribbons! It came without tags! It came without packages, boxes, or bags!

And here is the problem with canon. Not everyone has the same Shepard and canon will have its problems. I guess it is up to Bioware and developers of the future to solve the problem.

I think the main thing we are trying to promote here is the ability for Shepard to interact with the world on a psycholigical, instead of physical level. It is great that we have so many realistic and morally grey choices, but we don't see the change in Shepard to really feel the impact on the character and thus the world around him/her.

It's almost like reading a novel with a hybrid POV of Objective and First Person....Don't think it is very fitting for a narrative like ME. Since the trilogy is based on Shepard (Casey Hudson), I think it is reasonable to ask for a more in-depth look at Shepard, one way or another.

[Dave of Canada]

RubiconI7 wrote...

I think the main thing we are trying to promote here is the ability for Shepard to interact with the world on a psycholigical, instead of physical level.

But they did it just fine with the choice in the Liara-Cabin dialogue when she asks how you feel and what you're fighting for. It added growth to Shepard and my **** Shepard was able to stay an ****.

[Nightwriter]

Well said Rubicon.

[RubiconI7]

I agree with you Dave. But I am a greedy bastard and wants more...

Hope they do the same thing with Dragon Age 2. I believe that they did a pretty good job (compared to Shepard) on showing us what our Warden was thinking through the mouths of others in DA:O and DA:A.

Modifié par RubiconI7, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:23 .

[Nightwriter]

I actually liked that for once Shepard was not able to be a jerk in any way, and is scripted as an essentially good person. A good, smart mouthed person. It's never sat right with me that the hero should be somehow "evil", anyway. Evil doesn't fight evil.

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

I actually liked that for once Shepard was not able to be a jerk in any way, and is scripted as an essentially good person. A good, smart mouthed person. It's never sat right with me that the hero should be somehow "evil", anyway. Evil doesn't fight evil.

But being a Renegade / Jerk doesn't make you evil, you're just a jerk. Jerks can still have hearts of gold.

[RubiconI7]

Nightwriter wrote...

I actually liked that for once Shepard was not able to be a jerk in any way, and is scripted as an essentially good person. A good, smart mouthed person. It's never sat right with me that the hero should be somehow "evil", anyway. Evil doesn't fight evil.

Yeah, can't really have that. That would make people pissed. Wouldn't it be great if there was a toggle for being paragon or renegade...

[Nightwriter]

Guess I meant "bad", not "evil". And I agree, jerks with hearts of gold are great, I always wanted my manShep to be a bit of a Han Solo type - but don't you agree that the type of Shepard who is a jerk with a heart of gold would probably have acted the way Shepard did in the DLC? Helping Liara, but in a smartmouthed way?

[Cheese Elemental]

Nightwriter wrote...

Guess I meant "bad", not "evil". And I agree, jerks with hearts of gold are great, I always wanted my manShep to be a bit of a Han Solo type - but don't you agree that the type of Shepard who is a jerk with a heart of gold would probably have acted the way Shepard did in the DLC? Helping Liara, but in a smartmouthed way?

That's how I play my Renegon: a hard-ass jerk who's a nice guy at heart.

I don't play pure Renegade. It just doesn't sit well with me.

Modifié par Cheese Elemental, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:42 .