99 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

Guess I meant "bad", not "evil". And I agree, jerks with hearts of gold are great, I always wanted my manShep to be a bit of a Han Solo type - but don't you agree that the type of Shepard who is a jerk with a heart of gold would probably have acted the way Shepard did in the DLC? Helping Liara, but in a smartmouthed way?

Probably. It's just... my complete **** with no heart of gold (he's just a jerk because he wants to be a jerk) I treated Liara horribly, I pretty much told her to tough out her mother's death and acted grossed out when she told me about how Asari procreate. In ME2, I refused to help her hack into terminals (I forgot the reasoning why, though. I don't do things on that specific Shepard unless there's a reason... mmm...)  and we bickered like "Oh, did you remember the good old times. They were great. :D" and such.

I still don't know what I find weirder. Denying Tali the geth data not being mentioned at all (and she still loves me) or this... *ponders*

[RubiconI7]

After thinking over this discussion between Dave and Night, I realized another fault with the concept of canon: limiting imagination. We are imagining Shepard to be an ass with a good heart, with canon, it seems it would limit us from doing so. If imagination is limited, ME as a franchise will stagnate under the effect of indoctrination from the ME writers...wouldn't it?



I guess if one consider this from a multitude of angles it would decrease bias. As much as I would like to see an more in-depth Shepard, canon does not seem like the way to go?

[Deviija]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I didn't like it. I never treated Liara as a friend in ME1 (always insulted her and told her to deal with it), in ME2 I refused to assist her in her hunt and then suddenly my **** Shepard is arguing with Liara like an old married couple and laughing about the good old times. There was no good old times!

I sort-of liked it on my original character that was nice to everybody and found it cute but hated it on my other character. REALLY, REALLY hated it.

This.  This.  SO MUCH THIS. 

Just because Liara is safe and meant to have a place/role in ME3 does NOT meant tha she is every Shepard's lover or friend.  Shared history does not equal friendship.  Streamlining character interaction and tossing out consideration for the relationship paths that someone could have had with Liara in ME1 is a huge negative in the roleplaying department.  It severely limiting, IMO.  So I look at the LotSB DLC as a DLC meant for those that were friends or lovers of Liara, and as something that should not be used for those that were not friends with her. 

Modifié par Deviija, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:48 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

the car chase banter was solid / enjoyable

the shunt program banter was solid / enjoyable

the friendship with Liara was more honest... it being more honest / scripted didn't move me either way.



I will say this - Liara needs to get out more. Shes basically good, but the obsessive compulsive factor in her personality I don't find that appealing. That said: she's my LI so go figure.

[smudboy]

Canon, roleplaying, choice, blahblahblah. The man/woman is still a brick. There were loads of opportunities to give the Shepard character some meaning and development, and they squandered it for static reactions to "how's it going?" Not that it's a bad thing: they just needed that one extra step, unrelated to romance, to address Shepard's motivations, conflicts and changes/resolutions to those. Shepard is still just a surface creature with a gun, with no depth of personality, no real humanity or conflict to necessitate a change: just **** slap things with ones magically appearing and then disappearing M-8 Avenger, much like the opportunities of character development.

[Gethforceone]

Deviija wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I didn't like it. I never treated Liara as a friend in ME1 (always insulted her and told her to deal with it), in ME2 I refused to assist her in her hunt and then suddenly my **** Shepard is arguing with Liara like an old married couple and laughing about the good old times. There was no good old times!

I sort-of liked it on my original character that was nice to everybody and found it cute but hated it on my other character. REALLY, REALLY hated it.

This.  This.  SO MUCH THIS. 

Just because Liara is safe and meant to have a place/role in ME3 does NOT meant tha she is every Shepard's lover or friend.  Shared history does not equal friendship.  Streamlining character interaction and tossing out consideration for the relationship paths that someone could have had with Liara in ME1 is a huge negative in the roleplaying department.  It severely limiting, IMO.  So I look at the LotSB DLC as a DLC meant for those that were friends or lovers of Liara, and as something that should not be used for those that were not friends with her. 

Agreed 100%
I treated her like crap in ME1, I never hid it from her that I did not trust/like her in any way.
But it just sat there and treated them like they were the best of friends,
all the way up to the end of the DLC where Shepard just slumps down on bed his and says for Liara to come back soon.
Didn't fit my Shepard feelings on Liara at all.

[Sajuro]

What bugged me about it (still in the middle of the DLC) is that when Valeris (The Spectre) called you out on working with Cerberus and you had no choice but to disagree with her when I felt that she was right that my Shepard had no right to tell her what she was doing was wrong since he worked for Cerberus.

[JamieCOTC]

No, you couldn't be cruel to Liara, but then you couldn't tell Cerberus to shove it at the beginning of the game either. There were four other shuttles on that station. Hell, Sole Survivors couldn't even call them on Akuze. What I liked most about the direction of the dialog in LotSB was that someone actually asked how Shep was doing. For one or two moments, Shep wasn't a brick, meatpuppet, doll, or whatever. For that ever so brief moment, Shep got to be a real boy (or girl). *sniff*

[JamieCOTC]

Sajuro wrote...

What bugged me about it (still in the middle of the DLC) is that when Valeris (The Spectre) called you out on working with Cerberus and you had no choice but to disagree with her when I felt that she was right that my Shepard had no right to tell her what she was doing was wrong since he worked for Cerberus.

Agree 100%.  They way I like to imagine it is that whenever my femShep says she is not working for Cerberus, she is trying to convince herself as much as the person she is talking to. 

[casedawgz]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

What bugged me about it (still in the middle of the DLC) is that when Valeris (The Spectre) called you out on working with Cerberus and you had no choice but to disagree with her when I felt that she was right that my Shepard had no right to tell her what she was doing was wrong since he worked for Cerberus.

Agree 100%.  They way I like to imagine it is that whenever my femShep says she is not working for Cerberus, she is trying to convince herself as much as the person she is talking to. 

Agreed. My Shep is a renegade because he thinks that if he doesn't make the hard decisions, nobody will. He knows that every time he helps fulfill a Cerberus agenda he does it at the cost of part of his soul, but he knows that following his current course is the only way to stop the Reapers. I think of him as kind of a Wesley Wyndam Pryce type character, for the Angel fans, or the Operative, for the Serenity fans.

[Meshakhad2]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

What bugged me about it (still in the middle of the DLC) is that when Valeris (The Spectre) called you out on working with Cerberus and you had no choice but to disagree with her when I felt that she was right that my Shepard had no right to tell her what she was doing was wrong since he worked for Cerberus.

Agree 100%.  They way I like to imagine it is that whenever my femShep says she is not working for Cerberus, she is trying to convince herself as much as the person she is talking to. 

My Shepard barely tolerates Cerberus. The Illusive Man was right not to meet her face to face - she might shoot him on general principle.

[Sajuro]

Meshakhad2 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

What bugged me about it (still in the middle of the DLC) is that when Valeris (The Spectre) called you out on working with Cerberus and you had no choice but to disagree with her when I felt that she was right that my Shepard had no right to tell her what she was doing was wrong since he worked for Cerberus.

Agree 100%.  They way I like to imagine it is that whenever my femShep says she is not working for Cerberus, she is trying to convince herself as much as the person she is talking to. 

My Shepard barely tolerates Cerberus. The Illusive Man was right not to meet her face to face - she might shoot him on general principle.

Then after that she is forced by the mysterious god known as Bioware to say it wasn't the same thing as a Spectre doing a job for the Shadow Broker in exchange for information that probably saved countless lives.

[Ski Mask Wei]

While I thought the Shep/Liara interactions were funny I don't think it fit the tone of the game. It felt like something out of a buddy cop movie. I like the old "stay focused" Shepard when I'm killing and I hope Bioware doesn't extend this type battlefield commentary to ME3.

[NanQuan]

Agree with OP.



In addition to that, I'd like to say that I loved that it felt like Bioware was really listening. The comments about the hacking, the comments during the car chase, the witty banter, the romance entirely, and the part where liara asks how shep is really doing all feel like direct responses to what the fans are saying. I also just really appreciated all the comments that make fun of the game itself in a lighthearted manner.

[Neo Hex Omega]

Dave of Canada wrote...



Probably. It's just... my complete **** with no heart of gold (he's just a jerk because he wants to be a jerk) I treated Liara horribly, I pretty much told her to tough out her mother's death and acted grossed out when she told me about how Asari procreate. In ME2, I refused to help her hack into terminals (I forgot the reasoning why, though. I don't do things on that specific Shepard unless there's a reason... mmm...)  and we bickered like "Oh, did you remember the good old times. They were great. :D" and such.

Sounds like you created your own problem here.

Your character refused to help her on Illium with the terminal data, but then helped her with the Shadow Broker. It's assumed by the story, that if you are going out of your way to help her with the Broker, you are at the very least friends. If you wanted to really roleplay that, that character wouldn't help her hunt down the Shadow Broker.

[Dave of Canada]

Neo Hex Omega wrote...

that if you are going out of your way to help her with the Broker, you are at the very least friends.

That takes a lot of assumptions.

*C-Sec lady*

And assumptions are dangerous.

[Skyblade012]

The banter and additions to the character were good, but I'm a little worried about how much farther they may take them.



If they don't take into account Shepard's varying personalities and choices while writing this sort of stuff, it may not be work out in the end.

[Julie the bogan]

I went with "I'm Frustrated" while it being the truth I was sure it'd give me renegade points and that I would be a jerk to Liara, but I had to tell the truth. I liked that it didn’t give me renegade points and Shepard's response was exactly what I'd been feeling since the start of ME2, It peeled a layer off Shepard that I didn't think that they would develop at all and I was pleasantly surprised, it made me like Shepard even more and it gave me satisfaction knowing that at least someone cared enough to ask Shepard these questions.



Liara is with out a doubt one of Shepard’s greatest friends/supporters and now with the shadow brokers resources has the ability to help him/her in ME3.



I hope that they use this style more; perhaps you could only get your paragon/renegade points from interrupts only? (Though they could be on a little longer timer)

I like them developing Shepard's human side more please!!



A very satisfying outcome to a great DLC

[drhys23]

i liked how the interupts worked to show player personality. instead of sitting there looking at a convo wheel, if someone objected to her actions they just pressed a button. the ending was varied too. one could be an optimist, old war horse, leader, savior, in love with your li, or just fighting to survive.

[Zulu_DFA]

I think, it's all about streamlining the Liara romance as the "unofficial canon".

[Bruddajakka]

The best thing about ME2 is when it comes to Paragon/Renegade is that it really moved away from Shepard coming across like a Bi-polar a-hole. Seriously in ME1 you could go for being perfectly sweet to yelling in someones face at the drop of a hat all in the span of two sentences. Dying in ME2 really seems to have mellowed him out but then again maybe it was due to being free from the Alliance, and Councils BS. He could just focus on the getting the job done.



And I like how Lair did a good job of humanizing him.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Neo Hex Omega wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...



Probably. It's just... my complete **** with no heart of gold (he's just a jerk because he wants to be a jerk) I treated Liara horribly, I pretty much told her to tough out her mother's death and acted grossed out when she told me about how Asari procreate. In ME2, I refused to help her hack into terminals (I forgot the reasoning why, though. I don't do things on that specific Shepard unless there's a reason... mmm...)  and we bickered like "Oh, did you remember the good old times. They were great. :D" and such.

Sounds like you created your own problem here.

Your character refused to help her on Illium with the terminal data, but then helped her with the Shadow Broker. It's assumed by the story, that if you are going out of your way to help her with the Broker, you are at the very least friends. If you wanted to really roleplay that, that character wouldn't help her hunt down the Shadow Broker.

See I know I'll not have any issues regarding LotSB with my main Renegade FemShep because she ain't going to do it. She has no love for Liara, didn't help her with missions and post-suicide mission, couldn't give a monkey crap about helping TIM either (IIRC I gave Shadow Broker the info on Cerberus in ME as well, just to further confirm this). Now... with my main Renegade MaleShep, whooole different situation. Sure he don't like Liara too much but he is pretty much a Cerberus Guard dog now. So he'll most likely want to do the LotSB mission (rather than Liara's own mission which he didn't do) because Shadow Broker = Enemy of Cerberus... thus has to die.

Personally I can't see why they couldn't have had it so that in an ME2 import they checked how often you interact with a character and in Liara's case in particular when you recruited her (seeing as you could do it post Virmire and only need her to say 'Ilos' ). Then create a more 'business' like relationship between the 2 for those people that did that.

Jack Shepard AIN'T Liara's friend, so its gonna irk me a bit him talking to her as if they are. Granted she isn't going to get the Normandy Tour and will just be left to her own devices on the Shadow Broker ship.

Course, for most of my other Sheps am going to love the interaction and personality shining out, specially my main Paragon MaleShep who romanced Liara and remained faithful to her.

[Bruddajakka]

You know at the end of the day we can all blah blah blah as much as we want about our "Shepard" we're all going to do it for the achievements, access to the base, and the tags.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I personally never felt that my Shepard was in fact alive and responsive to the world around her until the catch-up with Liara on the Normandy. I didn't even romance Liara in ME1, but that scene was still shining with its own brilliance. I was so happy that someone ACTUALLY asked me "How are you doing?", and I was even happier to answer that. It suddenly made me feel my Shepard was more real than I thought she was (especially in ME2).

It's rather funny how a few lines of dialog on the psychological side of a character can only add so much depth into that character. Asking you how you're doing, asking you what you're fighting for, asking you about your current love interest, encouraging you that you haven't done all this for nothing, wishing you happiness and luck and telling you she would come back again. WHERE was that all in the main game? In fact, where was all that in ANY game at all?

In the main game of ME2, we literally spent tens of hours just listening to other people vent and solving their own problems. Shepard had nothing, not even problems -- until LOTSB showed up. I think that, at this point, we can all agree that Shepard's psychological factor must be more dominant throughout the game. We tend to interact with the world physically, but not psychologically, making us no different than a robot or a VI platform.

I'm so proud of Liara for being the loyal, lovable, and undeniably true friend that she is. I want to thank her for asking me how I was doing, I want to thank her for CARING, I want to thank her for making me FEEL someone at least has the decency to come all the way over to my cabin and ask about my well-being rather than venting about their own problems. She gave me hope and personality. More so than anyone else in the entire galaxy. 

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:33 .