292 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

[Edit 6 Oct 2010: Deleted flame war comment. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:09 .

[Dave of Canada]

Tazzmission wrote...


Liara cannot conceive a child with Shepard. Nor can any asari conceive a child with any non-asari

Liara CAN have a child with Shepard. Though the child is 100% genetically Asari, nothing from Shepard was gained or lost. Shepard's role in the parentage is meaningless.

[Dave of Canada]

Aradace wrote...

So let's get this strait right here just to answer a few questions of my own.  Dave, if Chris Priestly or someone else from the Dev Department etc. came on here, and said that you and didy were wrong, you'd still think that you were right?

I'd say I was wrong, I was just proven wrong by somebody who's informed. We've yet to be proven wrong.

[Zubie]

didymos1120 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

What exactly are we debating here, it got lost in the flame war and I don't feel like sifting through the garbage.

where debating  if liara can have children basicly, didy says she cant and its impossible and you can see his post on page one, secondly i posted a video that basicly explained asari sex talk from me1 and he and dave from canada believe that diolauge is wrong.

What the hell?  Of couse Liara can have a child. I never said she couldn't.  I said no other species contributes any genes to an asari child.  Read for comprehension.

The "father" doesn't contribute any genes but the mother can pick and choose desirable traits to pass on to the child during the meld. Which is why other species are more sought-after, they will have more unique traits. That is at least how I understood it. I could be wrong though I guess.

[Aradace]

[Edit 6 Oct 2010: Deleted flame war comment. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:10 .

[Tazzmission]

[Edit 6 Oct 2010: Deleted flame war comment. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:10 .

[krimesh]

didymos1120 wrote...


Aradace, here's a quote from Aethyta, since you seem fond of her as an example:  "Scientists say all that stuff about us getting genetic material from the father is crap."  She jokes that she got her father's mouth, but the guy raised her.  I.e., she simply adopted some of his speech patterns through good old-fashioned nurture, not nature.

Erinya at Baria Frontiers will also say that other species don't contribute anything that background radiation doesn't already. 

And then there's The Blue Rose Of Ilium, who will mention how she explained to her krogan boyfriend that any children they had wouldn't really be his biologically speaking, and would not be krogan. At all.  They'd just be asari.

The idea that  other species actually contribute anything to the asari is, basically, superstition.  Folk science if you're being kind.  The only effect we know of for certain is that out-species bonding somehow avoids the Ardat-Yakshi problem, but that could easily be epigenetic.  Probably is, because it seems that two non-pureblood asari bonding are just as likely to produce an Ardat-Yakshi as those who come from long, pureblood-only lineages.

The need for a mate is mostly about initiating parthenogenesis.  It's actually rather similar to what some species of lizard here on Earth are known to do:

An interesting aspect to reproduction in these asexual lizards is that mating behaviors are still seen, although the populations are all female. One female plays the role played by the male in closely related species, and mounts the female that is about to lay eggs. This behaviour is due to the hormonal cycles of the females, which cause them to behave like males shortly after laying eggs, when levels of progesterone are high, and to take the female role in mating before laying eggs, when estrogen dominates. Lizards who act out the courtship ritual have greater fecundity than those kept in isolation, due to the increase in hormones that accompanies the mounting. So, although the populations lack males, they still require sexual behavioral stimuli for maximum reproductive success.

If the person who worked out the asari lore didn't have those lizards in mind at the time, I'd be pretty surprised as it's very, very similar.

I disagree. Clearly some Asari state that the father's contribution, is non-existent, but how do the know? Unless you can quote a scientist in the ME universe, who conducted research on it, and concluded that the father had no genetic effect on the child whatsoever, I will treat all those comments as nothing more than another branch of popular opinion.
In fact the father having some effect on the child's genetic setup makes more sense:

First, you cannot directly compare with lizards or other reptiles who are able to reproduce asexually. All those species have males; if those die for some reason, then females can turn into males, or - in the lizard's case - at least play a male role to stimulate reproduction. Asari never had males in the first place (as far as we know), so it is not clear why a mating ceremony should have developed, if it is genetically pointless.

Second, if the father has no genetic influence on the children, why are Asari attracted to powerful and interesting individuals? Actually, Shepard is a great example. Recent studies on (human) female behavior have shown that in times of relative prosperity, females are less interested in strong and powerful males, but instead prefer weaker ones, who are more likely to hang around and help with the children. Shepard is a very insecure option: he is human, so he will die early; he is in constant danger, so he might die even earlier; he has a lot of choice in women, so he may not settle for just one. But still Asari are hugely attracted to Shepard. For a species who looks for mates only to help them with bringing up their children, humans in general, and especially Shepard, are a really strange choice.

Third, if the father has no more influence than background radiation, why is it that background radiation does not create Ardat-Yakshi?

I know that the father's or rather the other's genes are not directly introduced into an Asari-child's system. In humans, say, the male's genes constitute a fixed proportion of the offsprings genes, although as far as I know not a fixed proportion of actually active genes. In contrast to this I imagine the Asari mating process something like this: Imagine you write a huge computer-program (that's the mother Asari). Then you look at someone else's code (the other), and write a new version of your code, but include the other's best ideas too; you still use your own framework and most of the original code though (that's the child). That's the way I think of it.

Anyway, nothing I said proves anything of course. I am just saying that there is room for doubt. From my point of view ME does not give us a definite answer, probably on purpose. In what Aethyta says, there are actually two pieces of information: what she herself thinks, but also that others claim something different.


EDIT: oh and I forgot why I clicked on this topic in the first place: Shepard's Children: One word. BLUE.

Modifié par krimesh, 12 septembre 2010 - 11:02 .

[Dave of Canada]

easygame88 wrote...

The "father" doesn't contribute any genes but the mother can pick and choose desirable traits to pass on to the child during the meld. Which is why other species are more sought-after, they will have more unique traits. That is at least how I understood it. I could be wrong though I guess.

But that's the common idea spread through the Asari as a whole, dialogue in ME2 suggests otherwise that nothing is gained from the father species. A human / asari child is as much the same as a krogan / asari or asari / asari.

[Tazzmission]

[Edit 6 Oct 2010: Deleted flame war comment. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:10 .

[didymos1120]

Tazzmission wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

What exactly are we debating here, it got lost in the flame war and I don't feel like sifting through the garbage.

where debating  if liara can have children basicly, didy says she cant and its impossible and you can see his post on page one, secondly i posted a video that basicly explained asari sex talk from me1 and he and dave from canada believe that diolauge is wrong.

What the hell?  Of couse Liara can have a child. I never said she couldn't.  I said no other species contributes any genes to an asari child.  Read for comprehension.

you said and i quote 

Liara cannot conceive a child with Shepard. Nor can any asari conceive a child with any non-asari

and after that i gave you a video that says otherwise

Because conception is a technical term: fertilizing an egg with a sperm is how it's defined. That is not what happens when asari reproduce.  They are parthenogenetic.  And, FemShep for certain ain't go no sperm, but Liara could still meld with her and Liara could have a child as a result. That child, however, would not be genetically related to Shepard.    

BTW, I didn't write that.  That's from Shandepared's post that you replied to before I in turn replied to yours.  What I actually wrote was this:

OK, here's the deal: conception is really a technical term when used in its biological sense.  It means fertilization of an egg by a sperm.  That simply does not happen with asari.  They're parthenogenetic (says so right in the Codex).  In cultural terms: yes of course, Aethyta's dad was a krogan.  He raised her and did all that dad-type stuff.  But genetically?  She had only one parent: her mom. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 septembre 2010 - 11:02 .

[Aradace]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aradace wrote...

So let's get this strait right here just to answer a few questions of my own.  Dave, if Chris Priestly or someone else from the Dev Department etc. came on here, and said that you and didy were wrong, you'd still think that you were right?

I'd say I was wrong, I was just proven wrong by somebody who's informed. We've yet to be proven wrong.

*shrugs* Fair enough.  Admittedly then, I "apparently" lack some sort of comprehension for what Ive read in the codex.  Whatever, doesnt matter to me now at this point because Im realizing that this is such a pointless debate and should be squashed.  Not because I think Im right, not because I think Im wrong, but because we're debating a FICTIOUS race of FICTICIOUS aliens.  Seriously, both sides of this arguement (myself included) need to stfu and move on and get this thread BACK ON TRACK.

[Aradace]

[Edit 6 Oct 2010: Deleted flame war comment. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:11 .

[Tazzmission]

[Edit 6 Oct 2010: Deleted flame war comment. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:12 .

[Dave of Canada]

Aradace wrote...

*shrugs* Fair enough.  Admittedly then, I "apparently" lack some sort of comprehension for what Ive read in the codex.

I quoted the Codex entry a while back, here it is again.

The asari were the first species to discover the Citadel. When the salarians arrived, it was the asari who proposed the establishment of the Citadel Council to maintain peace throughout the galaxy. Since then, the asari have served as the mediators and centrists of the Council.
An all-female race, the asari reproduce through a form of
parthenogenesis. They can attune their nervous system to that of another
individual of any gender, and of any species, to reproduce. This
capability has led to unseemly and inaccurate rumors about asari
promiscuity.
Asari can live for over 1,000 years, passing through three stages
of life. In the Maiden stage, they wander restlessly, seeking new
knowledge and experience. When the Matron stage begins, they "meld" with
interesting partners to produce their offspring. This ends when they
reach the Matriarch stage, where they assume the roles of leaders and
councilors.

[Saibh]

[Edit 6 Oct 2010: Deleted flame war comment. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:12 .

[didymos1120]

krimesh wrote...

First, you cannot directly compare with lizards or other reptiles who are able to reproduce asexually.

Why are people insisting on that example so literally?  It's merely an interesting parallel to the asari, and possibly a source of inspiration for the lore.  I was perfectly clear about that.  I'm not saying that's how the asari "really" work.

[Zubie]

Dave of Canada wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

The "father" doesn't contribute any genes but the mother can pick and choose desirable traits to pass on to the child during the meld. Which is why other species are more sought-after, they will have more unique traits. That is at least how I understood it. I could be wrong though I guess.

But that's the common idea spread through the Asari as a whole, dialogue in ME2 suggests otherwise that nothing is gained from the father species. A human / asari child is as much the same as a krogan / asari or asari / asari.

I see, then we cannot know for sure
Where is that dialogue in ME2? The 2 asaris talking about the pureblood asari on Illium?

[Aradace]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aradace wrote...

*shrugs* Fair enough.  Admittedly then, I "apparently" lack some sort of comprehension for what Ive read in the codex.

I quoted the Codex entry a while back, here it is again.

The asari were the first species to discover the Citadel. When the salarians arrived, it was the asari who proposed the establishment of the Citadel Council to maintain peace throughout the galaxy. Since then, the asari have served as the mediators and centrists of the Council.
An all-female race, the asari reproduce through a form of
parthenogenesis. They can attune their nervous system to that of another
individual of any gender, and of any species, to reproduce. This
capability has led to unseemly and inaccurate rumors about asari
promiscuity.
Asari can live for over 1,000 years, passing through three stages
of life. In the Maiden stage, they wander restlessly, seeking new
knowledge and experience. When the Matron stage begins, they "meld" with
interesting partners to produce their offspring. This ends when they
reach the Matriarch stage, where they assume the roles of leaders and
councilors.

And I understand that, you must think I was being sarcastic when I said what I did.  Which, there was some implied sarcasm but as a whole wasnt meant as such.  If I missed something in the comprehension then so be it.  At this point Im not believing anyone until we can get an "official" in here to settle the debate.

[Tazzmission]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aradace wrote...

*shrugs* Fair enough.  Admittedly then, I "apparently" lack some sort of comprehension for what Ive read in the codex.

I quoted the Codex entry a while back, here it is again.

The asari were the first species to discover the Citadel. When the salarians arrived, it was the asari who proposed the establishment of the Citadel Council to maintain peace throughout the galaxy. Since then, the asari have served as the mediators and centrists of the Council.
An all-female race, the asari reproduce through a form of
parthenogenesis. They can attune their nervous system to that of another
individual of any gender, and of any species, to reproduce. This
capability has led to unseemly and inaccurate rumors about asari
promiscuity.
Asari can live for over 1,000 years, passing through three stages
of life. In the Maiden stage, they wander restlessly, seeking new
knowledge and experience. When the Matron stage begins, they "meld" with
interesting partners to produce their offspring. This ends when they
reach the Matriarch stage, where they assume the roles of leaders and
councilors.

but you still havent proved that male traits cant be acitive. so basicly what im seeing is come me3 liara will be a new matriarch seeing as in lotsb she says shes 108 in 2 to 3 months. remember in mass effect 1 liara says the reason why asari produce with other species is because if asari produce with asari  she said something on the lines of extinction. i cant remember the exact line but

[Dave of Canada]

easygame88 wrote...
I see, then we cannot know for sure
Where is that dialogue in ME2? The 2 asaris talking about the pureblood asari on Illium?

Didy posted it back in page 4, I believe.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2010 - 11:08 .

[Tazzmission]

Dave of Canada wrote...

easygame88 wrote...
I see, then we cannot know for sure
Where is that dialogue in ME2? The 2 asaris talking about the pureblood asari on Illium?

Didy posted it back in page 4, I believe.

listen to what the asari spectre calls liara she calls her a pureblood *****. also when you go to the one station for info on samara you hear 2 asari discussing on how the ones dad was a batarian

[Dave of Canada]

Tazzmission wrote...

but you still havent proved that male traits cant be acitive.

*facepalm*

remember in mass effect 1 liara says the reason why asari produce with other species is because if asari produce with asari  she said something on the lines of extinction. i cant remember the exact line but

She says that if Asari only mated with Asari, they'd be extinct because  they didn't have any other species to mate with until they left their homeworld. She says this when Shepard questions her about if it's required for the other parent to be of another species.