363 réponses à ce sujet

[shoggoth1890]

Well, Nazara is pretty similar to Nazarene...

Sorry, I'll stop encouraging him...

[Zulu_DFA]

Fixers0 wrote...

Because you fail to see, that The Collectors and harbinger were the problem not sovereign, you're whole theory is an excuse for Mass effect 2 crappy script and the lack of explanation giving during the game.

The problem lies beyond the story, The Collectors were an afterthought, and were not created before Mass effect 1 was finished, the were a product of lack of vision, appearently Bioware thought they could't make an exiting new game for mainstream (and PS3) players if they had would hold on to all the facts and details of the first game.
So they decided to release some points and somewhat started over again keeping only some major points.

This way Most things in Mass effect 1 aren't as important as the should be, and other points were completley dropped, and as you can see in this thread (social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5549485) Mass effect became an optional prequel to the events of Mass effect 2 and 3.

That's just savetting yourself up for a "RET-CON!!!"  outcry. Of course, the story is and will be adjusted here and there as the market economy will require, which is pretty much self evident with ME2 and I'll be the last to dispute this nothion in general.

However, claiming that the Collectors had not existed at alle before ME1 shipped and BioWare was just "OK, we're making a trilogy, so let's make the first part, then come up with some stuff for the next parts" is borderline retardedness. Even if it were tha case, the things have been adjusted, and now the Collectors are here and it's not like they are going to ever fit with Vigil's tale.

But the problem is this theory is based on the inconsistensies of Vigil's tale within the frame of ME1 alone! As well as the apparent stupidity of Saren/Sovereign's plan.

SajPl wrote...

So Sovereign is what? He's trying to save the galactic races or what? I think it all makes sense as it is - Sovereign trying to bring back the Reapers through the Citadel, when he fails, Harbringer tries to do it  using the Collectors, which were created for another task - being slaves who would study other races for the Reapers.

Not out of excessive good will, but who knows, maybe Sovereign indeed was thinking that the organics could be sometimes more useful, if utilized somehow else instead of being turned into smoothies. Maybe it didn't even think that the Humans were special.

As "it is", it does not make sense whatsever. Tasking Sovereign with the general recall, but depriving it of vital information and resources to do it? Even if the "Keeper signal" didn't work, all Sovereign had to do was to tell Harbinger that they had to fly to London on their own, then just sit tight.

And BTW, the Collectors are said to have been active for 500 years already.

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Well, Nazara is pretty similar to Nazarene...

Sorry, I'll stop encouraging him...

No-no-no! Please, continue!

It's very interesting, what you're saying...

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 février 2011 - 10:57 .

[The Unfallen]

Next thing he will be saying the "true" Geth are in on it too.

No, really what is hilarious is how none of this will end up in ME 3. 

Modifié par That Yellow Bastard, 01 février 2011 - 11:00 .

[Zulu_DFA]

That Yellow Bastard wrote...

Next thing he will be saying the "true" Geth are in on it too.

No, really what is hilarious is how none of this will end up in ME 3. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Mr. Bastard, I have to regretfully inform you, that you are wrong on both accounts. I will not be saying the True Geth are "in on it too", and something of this will definitely end up in ME3. Like, you know, the invasion of Earth bypassing the Citadel and the Omega playing a role in the Reaper plans.

[xedgorex]

Why do i feel like a lot of these topicsare just "well if i wrote the story it'd be awesome and THIS is how i'd do it"

edit: I also seem to see a giant reaccuring theme in your (Zulu's) posts. And thats your attitude that what you thought of and your plans were the obvious choice for everyone involved and the fact that what happens in the GAME isn't what you would have done or what you think would be best means that there is a giant conspiracy and Sovereign new less/more did less/more than he should have.


Or, you could accept its a GAME, made by humans, where the bad guy is beyond HUMAN understanding.
Accept the fact that the choices made were the choices made, and were made because the writers felt that it was best for the story at the time when they wrote it.


I mean or you could go ahead and think you're right.


edit2: stop stating things as pure fact when its speculation. You dont know if Virigl was lying, you think he was. Stop saying FACT Virgil was lying. No, ASSUMPTION you think Virgil was lying. You're not the mastermind of this universe, stop imposing your will on the game in those manners.


edit3: Palpatine. Dude, just because he didn't do that doesnt mean anything. You're acting like there is a guidebook for dominance and thats step one. Just because he didn't do taht route doesn't mean he failed. It just means thats not the plan they used. If this is the first time its messed up you can't faul them for the way they destroyed us the previous times. It worked before it'll obviously work again "oh wait it failed drats".
But srsly br0 stop with the Palpatine mantra. We get it, thats how YOU would take over the world, its not the only way and its not the main way. If it was, its what would have happened, but it didn't. 

Modifié par xedgorex, 02 février 2011 - 02:18 .

[SajPl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Jacobss wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...



The vision from the beacons is not a Prothean warning. It's a sort of notification from the Reapers of the coming end. (Go to IGN.com, and check out the preview of Evolution #2)

Where have you found it? I've checked IGN preview of Evolution #2 and there is nothing about.

Check better.



BTW, it kinda confirms my another hunch, that Ilos was the Prothean planet of origin. Ilos was in the beacon vision, and it was meant for the Protheans. And in TIM's vision from the Shanxi relic, it's Earth!



http://media.comics....mg_8251238.html

http://media.comics....mg_8251226.html

What proof do you have that the planet in the vision is Earth? Doesnt look much like it, well except the shape maby but any other proof since most planets have that shape?

[CroGamer002]

Jesus Christ, ZULU has more theories then how will world end in 2012 myth.

[Dirty_Dan]

Then why have the rachni wars or me1

[Zulu_DFA]

Dirty_Dan wrote...

Then why have the rachni wars or me1

Why we have wars at all?

The Rachni were a bug race. Nuff said.

Them being indoctrinated is a fan thory, just like this one. Only, unlike this one, it doesn't hold up, when critially examined. Becasue it (a) is based on unverifyable claims by an NPC, that has all the reason to lie to Sheaprd, and ( mkes no sense, seeing as the Galactic civilization was two young at that time to get reaped.

Oddly, it would make a bit more sense if you accepted this theory, namely that Vigil was lying and the Reapers are interested in a single race claiming the entire Galaxy prior to their invasion (in which case the Rachni could have been chosen as such a race), as opposed to invading through the Citadel gate and reaping whatever they fing here. But that also wouldn't hold up, seeing how the sightings of the Collectors (Reapers' overseers) were not recorded prior to ~500 years ago.

As for ME1, as I said, Sovereign was up to something else and screwing up Harbinger's Grand Design.

SajPl wrote...

What proof do you have that the planet in the vision is Earth? Doesnt look much like it, well except the shape maby but any other proof since most planets have that shape?

It looks very much like it, and on the lower one you can see a continent's coastline that can be identified as the African Horn. The star looks like Sol, and the gray cratery planet in the foreground is Luna. The reddish planet in the first frame looks like Mars.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 février 2011 - 09:31 .

[shoggoth1890]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Check better.

Such compelling evidence...

The planet of which he speaks is Earth though, but there's a continuity question of them placing the mass relay around Mars. Shouldn't it be closer to Pluto?

I want this post to stay alive, not because it's intriguing(God help those that think it is), but because I am a tin foil manufacturer.

[Zulu_DFA]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Check better.

Such compelling evidence...
The planet of which he speaks is Earth though, but there's a continuity question of them placing the mass relay around Mars. Shouldn't it be closer to Pluto?
I want this post to stay alive, not because it's intriguing(God help those that think it is), but because I am a tin foil manufacturer.

Since it's a vision, the scale can be distorted. You can also see the Moon next to Mars in the first frame (Mars' two own satelites are just big rocks, not even spherical)

For all we know, the vision may be a reaction of the organic brain to the Reaper signal (indoctrination anyone?) So, the vision from the beacons was the response of the Prothean brain to that signal, re-experienced by Shepard (and not making any sense even to Liara, until Shepard gets the Cypher). That's why there is Ilos in that vision. Jack Harper is having the vision after a direct exposure to the signal, that's why he is seeing Earth and objects from the Solar system, including a few Human military spacecraft next to the mass relay.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 février 2011 - 09:34 .

[SajPl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SajPl wrote...

What proof do you have that the planet in the vision is Earth? Doesnt look much like it, well except the shape maby but any other proof since most planets have that shape?

It looks very much like it, and on the lower one you can see a continent's coastline that can be identified as the African Horn. The star looks like Sol, and the gray cratery planet in the foreground is Luna. The reddish planet in the first frame looks like Mars.

http://uk.media.comi...mg_8251238.html

It does look like Earth but then again if it is a viosion of Earth then what are spaceships doing in a Reaper vision of Earth? It could very well be that TIM had a vision similar to that of Shepard and just was picturing Earth while thinking about what he heared during the vision, we do not know that.

Modifié par SajPl, 02 février 2011 - 09:37 .

[shoggoth1890]

Yeah... still not seeing an Ilos anywhere.

[Zulu_DFA]

SajPl wrote...

 what are Turian ships doing in a Reaper vision of Earth?

Those are Human ships.

sloggoth1890 wrote...

Yeah... still not seeing an Ilos anywhere.

Ilos was in the Prothean vision.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 février 2011 - 09:45 .

[SajPl]

^corrected that one already. Still the question remains.

[xedgorex]

I said it once i'll say it again.



Zulu didn't write Mass Effect so he should stop acting like every word he spews is golden law.



You need to accept the fact that things didn't happen as you would have done them and move on.

[Zulu_DFA]

SajPl wrote...

^corrected that one already. Still the question remains.

I say myself that the vision is everyone's brain reaction to the same signal, which is different depending on the race of the subject.

However, the key point is that the Prothean vision, which Vigil was trying to present as a warning against the Reapers, is in fact merely some kind of unedited recording of the vision the Protheans were having when exposed to the Reaper signal.

Q: If it was a message from the "12 scientists", why did it lack any clues about the whole Citadel thing?
A: Because it's not a message from the "12 scientists", but a vision the Protheans had, just the way TIM had it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 juillet 2011 - 02:18 .

[SajPl]

Theory : the thing that caused TIM's vision wasn't of prothean origin. It might have been some Reaper artifact that would show the organic activationg it that they have but one choice - accept their fate. We know that Prothean technology, just like the other races is based upon Reaper technology so if the Protheans could have artifacts that showed visions, Reapers might have them too. It might be something that was supposed to indoctrinate the one watching it just like an artifact found in a mine in ME2 (dont remember the planet) where we can read a worker's log that says that theres a very nice sound coming from the room with the artifact.

As for the "12 scientists" as far as I remember the vision was incomplete so maby they did mention it but simply we didn't get the complete message.

Modifié par SajPl, 02 février 2011 - 10:18 .

[candidate88766]

The main reason we can be almost certain that none of the characters are lying is that characters are one of the main ways of explaining and narrating the story to the player. In movies and games (and books, but to a lesser extent) the characters are the way in which the story is explained to the audience, i.e. us, the gamers. Vigil was just a way for Bioware to tell the player about the Reapers in an engaging manner rather than have us read it out of a codex. Thats often what characters are for in games - for exposition. So no, Vigil is not lying to the player.

Modifié par candidate88766, 02 février 2011 - 10:33 .

[Zulu_DFA]

SajPl wrote...

Theory : the thing that caused TIM's vision wasn't of prothean origin. It might have been some Reaper artifact that would show the organic activationg it that they have but one choice - accept their fate. We know that Prothean technology, just like the other races is based upon Reaper technology so if the Protheans could have artifacts that showed visions, Reapers might have them too. It might be something that was supposed to indoctrinate the one watching it just like an artifact found in a mine in ME2 (dont remember the planet) where we can read a worker's log that says that theres a very nice sound coming from the room with the artifact.

As for the "12 scientists" as far as I remember the vision was incomplete so maby they did mention it but simply we didn't get the complete message.

Of course, the thing on Shanxi was of the Reaper origin, just like pretty much everything that in-universe is thought to be of the Prothean origin.

So think: TIM is having the vision, because he's been exposed to a piece of Reaper tech. Shepard had a similar vision when he was exposed to a piece of Prothean tech, and it was meant to help against the Reapers. Isn't there a contradiction here?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 février 2011 - 10:46 .

[Zulu_DFA]

candidate88766 wrote...

The main reason we can be almost certain that none of the characters are lying is that characters are one of the main ways of explaining and narrating the story to the player. In movies and games (and books, but to a lesser extent) the characters are the way in which the story is explained to the audience, i.e. us, the gamers. Vigil was just a way for Bioware to tell the player about the Reapers in an engaging manner rather than have us read it out of a codex. Thats often what characters are for in games - for exposition. So no, Vigil is not lying to the player.

So was Captain Bailey lying to the player, when he said that there are "protein vats" on the Citadel, that sustain not only the Keeper population but thousands of low-life residents of the wards?

[SajPl]

I like the theory our salarian friend candidate88766   posted.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Of course, the thing on Shanxi was of the Reaper origin, just like pertty much everything that in-universe is thought to be of the Prothean origin.

So think: TIM is having the vision, because he's been exposed to a piece of Reaper tech. Shepard had a similar vision when he was exposed to a piece of Prothean tech, and it was meant to help against the Reapers. Isn't there a contradiction here?

I see no contradiction.
The Reapers left behind (we don't know if intentionally) artifacts that made organics worship them and eventually become husks (missions in ME and ME2 where we find husks and evidence that something turned them).

The Protheans left beacons with visions as a warning that work in similar way.

The Alliance and other races technology (like mass accelerated weapons) is also based upon Reaper technology, does that mean we are working for the Reapers? Are the weapons we will use against the Reapers meant to help them?
Example - we are using weapons based on Reaper technology against Harbringer a Reaper.
Protheans used their beacons against the Reapers - to potentially warn other Races.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So was Captain Bailey lying to the player, when he said that there are "protein vats" on the Citadel, that sustain not only the Keeper population but thousands of low-life residents of the wards?

Could you please say whern we can hear that from Bailey ,is it the dialogue about the duct-rats or a standard dialogue option?
I dont remember Bailey saing that the protein vats sustain thousands of low-life citizens.

Modifié par SajPl, 02 février 2011 - 11:44 .

[Zulu_DFA]

SajPl wrote...

Protheans used their beacons against the Reapers - to potentially warn other Races.

How does the multiplying the Reaper horror movie hurt them, especially since they left copies of it available all over the Galaxy? They don't come across as caring about their copyright infringement...

At most it can be argued that the Protheans were communicating and relaying their visions to each other. But if it were actual accounts of the invasion, let alone a warning of how it all happens, the Citadel should have been there first and foremost. And it would make sense for BioWare to put the Citadel in the vision, if Vigil's tale about the "12 scientists" and their warning was true.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 février 2011 - 11:45 .

[SajPl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SajPl wrote...

Protheans used their beacons against the Reapers - to potentially warn other Races.

How does the multiplying the Reaper horror movie hurt them, especially since they left copies of it available all over the Galaxy? They don't come across as caring about their copyright infringement...

At most it can be argued that the Protheans were communicating and relaying their visions to each other. But if it were actual recordings of the invasion, let alone a warning of how it all happens, the Citadel should have been there first and foremost. And it would make sense for BioWare to put the Citadel in the vision, if Vigil's tale about the "12 scientists" and their warning was true.

It hurt them in that way, that Shepard saw it and he knew he had to stop them ? So the warning did what it was meant to do. Leaving multiple warnings also makes sense - the more they leave the bigger the chance of finding them by organics they were supposed to warn.
The beacon was damaged and we didn't get the full message so maby there was something like
 " WATCH OUT FOR THE CITADEL".

Example ;
Complete and undamaged Prothean message : WATCH OUT FOR THE CITADEL IT CAN BRING THE REAPERS BACK AND LET THEM DESTROY YOUR GOVERMENT IN ONE ATTACK ..... rest of the horror movie.
Damaged and incomplete Prothean vision after thousands of years : ... rest of the horror movie.

Modifié par SajPl, 02 février 2011 - 11:54 .

[Zulu_DFA]

SajPl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

So was Captain Bailey lying to the player, when he said that there are "protein vats" on the Citadel, that sustain not only the Keeper population but thousands of low-life residents of the wards?

Could you please say whern we can hear that from Bailey ,is it the dialogue about the duct-rats or a standard dialogue option?
I dont remember Bailey saing that the protein vats sustain thousands of low-life citizens.

Well, I may be mixing some dialogue here. I clearly remember Bailey mentioning the vats in the "duct-rat" branch of his dialogue. And I remember that it is said that the poor can feed from them. It may be the Quarian or even Avina on the "Level 26".

The point is, Vigil's assertion that the "12 scientists" would die of starvation is in contradiction with the fact Citadel maintains automated recycling of nutrient paste suitable to consumption by any organics.

SajPl wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

SajPl wrote...

Protheans used their beacons against the Reapers - to potentially warn other Races.

How
does the multiplying the Reaper horror movie hurt them, especially since they left copies of it available all over the Galaxy? They don't come across as caring about their copyright infringement...

At most it can be argued that the Protheans were communicating and relaying their visions to each other. But if it were actual recordings of the invasion, let alone a warning of how it all happens, the Citadel should have been there first and foremost. And it would make sense for BioWare to put the Citadel in the vision, if Vigil's tale about the "12 scientists" and their warning was true.

It hurt them in that way, that Shepard saw it and he knew he had to stop them ? So the warning did what it was meant to do.

From a similar vision, TIM also knew that there is something very bad out there, that has to be stopped. However, it didn't help him much. And it didn't look like the Reapers minded him to have it.

Shepard's vision was also useless, if not for Saren and Sovereign's activities, that put it in some context.

Vigil itself doesn't tell you anything substantial. It says the vision was a warning. Yet it's doesn't contain the really important information. Vigil says the Conduit is "the key", yet it doesn't say why the Citadel is useless to Sovereign without this "key". And Vigil makes a lot of "assumption", that have been proven wrong since ME1.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 03 février 2011 - 12:16 .