363 réponses à ce sujet

[Anacronian Stryx]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

If you bring Tali she finds the planet eerie and feels as if they are trespassing there. She claims the quarians once tried to find Ilos as a new potential homeworld.

Is it actually "once tried to find"?  If so, that would make my wild speculation pretty unlikely to be the case.

Yup.

[Zulu_DFA]

Quarians once wanted to catch a Reaper to win war against the Geth.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 novembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Quarians once wanted to catch a Reaper to win war against the Geth.

That's not wild speculation, that's just making stuff up. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Drew Karpyshyn made this stuff up.

[Mallissin]

One of my personal theories since playing ME2 has been that Sovereign was not "left behind". I think he was damaged at some point (maybe by the same race as the derelict Reaper) and found/repaired by the Battarians or Geth.



From what is explained in ME2, there's no reason for a Reaper to be left behind. If Harbinger has a direct line to the Collectors, why would they need to leave behind a Reaper to send the signal? Harbinger could have sent the signal using the Collectors and no Reaper would need to risk themselves.



I also don't think all of the Reapers are on the same side. Sovereign said it himself that they are each a nation unto themselves. Maybe Harbinger secretly worked behind the scenes each culling to build up his own knowledge hidden from the rest of the Reapers. If the Collectors were a concerted effort amongst the Reapers, wouldn't they have tried to have more than one Collector General to remote in? No, because it was a small one-man operation to lay low.



Because of this opinion, Ilos being so close to where the Collector base was located seems suspicious to me. I'm thinking that Harbinger (or another Reaper) was helping the Protheans along technologically but didn't get as far as they wanted before the Citadel activated. Figuring the 50k year schedule was hindering their work, they used the remaining Protheans to halt the countdown so they could have more time on the next cycle.



When Sovereign woke up (on his own or with help), he realized something was wrong and we have the ME1 plot. When Sovereign failed, Harbinger obsesses on Shepard and humans because we were able to stop Sovereign (and by accident help him). Further, our species turns out to be compatible with the Reaper creation process.



But since we took care of the base, Harbinger can't remote in to work. So, he has to go on-site. Leading us the scene with the Reapers waking up, which we might at first assume was ALL of the Reapers but might actually only be Harbinger's faction.



Anyway, I figure in ME3 we might need to start a Reaper civil war to keep Harbinger from harvesting humans. Hopefully between our efforts to rally the galaxy's sentient species and turning the Reapers against each other, we'll be able to weaken the Reapers enough to stop both factions or slow them down to figure out a plan of action.



Then we'd have a universe with a few Reapers left still causing problems but not a major threat that could turn into more games or even a MMO.

[Arijharn]

I'll buy that theory... but I do have a question in regards to it; why would Sovereign and Harbinger be ideologically opposed to each other? As it is, wouldn't Sovereign be a self-loathing beast because he apparently hates all organics to some degree whereas Harbinger wants to grant (worthy) ones immortality by 'ascending' them to Reaper status?

[Zulu_DFA]

Mallissin wrote...

One of my personal theories since playing ME2 has been that Sovereign was not "left behind". I think he was damaged at some point (maybe by the same race as the derelict Reaper) and found/repaired by the Battarians or Geth.

From what is explained in ME2, there's no reason for a Reaper to be left behind. If Harbinger has a direct line to the Collectors, why would they need to leave behind a Reaper to send the signal? Harbinger could have sent the signal using the Collectors and no Reaper would need to risk themselves.

I also don't think all of the Reapers are on the same side. Sovereign said it himself that they are each a nation unto themselves. Maybe Harbinger secretly worked behind the scenes each culling to build up his own knowledge hidden from the rest of the Reapers. If the Collectors were a concerted effort amongst the Reapers, wouldn't they have tried to have more than one Collector General to remote in? No, because it was a small one-man operation to lay low.

Because of this opinion, Ilos being so close to where the Collector base was located seems suspicious to me. I'm thinking that Harbinger (or another Reaper) was helping the Protheans along technologically but didn't get as far as they wanted before the Citadel activated. Figuring the 50k year schedule was hindering their work, they used the remaining Protheans to halt the countdown so they could have more time on the next cycle.

When Sovereign woke up (on his own or with help), he realized something was wrong and we have the ME1 plot. When Sovereign failed, Harbinger obsesses on Shepard and humans because we were able to stop Sovereign (and by accident help him). Further, our species turns out to be compatible with the Reaper creation process.

But since we took care of the base, Harbinger can't remote in to work. So, he has to go on-site. Leading us the scene with the Reapers waking up, which we might at first assume was ALL of the Reapers but might actually only be Harbinger's faction.

Anyway, I figure in ME3 we might need to start a Reaper civil war to keep Harbinger from harvesting humans. Hopefully between our efforts to rally the galaxy's sentient species and turning the Reapers against each other, we'll be able to weaken the Reapers enough to stop both factions or slow them down to figure out a plan of action.

Then we'd have a universe with a few Reapers left still causing problems but not a major threat that could turn into more games or even a MMO.

Wow, finally! Someone with a good theory. You, sir, are an oasis in a desert!

I've thought myself that one of the most plausible ways to defeat the Reapers in ME3 is to somehow make them blow up each other, since it would take no more than a dozen of them to annihilate even a combined fleet of all the races (including Geth and Quarians...).

Sovereign opposing Harbinger also comes quickly to mind as a result of thinking that Vigil was a Reaper agent... But to me it seems that Sovereign migh have been some kind of a "rogue" Reaper, not a team player. It could have been driven by what equates to the lust for power, wanting to rule the Galaxy alone perhaps, and trap Harbinger and the rest of the Reapers in the dark space...

But maybe there are indeed two rival teams of the Reapers... Seeing how the Omega station is a "dark counterpart" of the Citadel, one might dub those teams "Citadel Reapers" (Sovereign & Co) and "Omega Reapers" (Harbinger & Co).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:08 .

[Count Viceroy]

I wish this forum had a rolling eyes smiley.



Close as it gets.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:08 .

[Zulu_DFA]

I wish this forum had a middle finger smiley.



Close as it gets.

[Count Viceroy]

Maybe then you'd actually at least reply with something substantial to people you don't agree with instead of pretending they never posted.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Drew Karpyshyn made this stuff up.

Huh.  Must be in a conversation option that I've never clicked on, or something.

[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Drew Karpyshyn made this stuff up.

Huh.  Must be in a conversation option that I've never clicked on, or something.

It must be in the Ascension book. Around page 285, I think.

[Soahfreako]

I find that I am in disagreement with the answers to your own questions. But, instead of writing a wall of text to explain why some of your answers do not make sense, simply because I don't have the time right now, I'll just say: Riveting tale.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Drew Karpyshyn made this stuff up.

Huh.  Must be in a conversation option that I've never clicked on, or something.

It must be in the Ascension book. Around page 285, I think.

Outside media doesn't count.

[Mallissin]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I've thought myself that one of the most plausible ways to defeat the Reapers in ME3 is to somehow make them blow up each other, since it would take no more than a dozen of them to annihilate even a combined fleet of all the races (including Geth and Quarians...).

Sovereign opposing Harbinger also comes quickly to mind as a result of thinking that Vigil was a Reaper agent... But to me it seems that Sovereign migh have been some kind of a "rogue" Reaper, not a team player. It could
have been driven by what equates to the lust for power, wanting to rule the Galaxy alone perhaps, and trap Harbinger and the rest of the Reapers in the dark space...

But maybe there are indeed two rival teams of the Reapers... Seeing how the Omega station is a "dark counterpart" of the Citadel, one might dub those teams "Citadel Reapers" (Sovereign & Co) and "Omega Reapers" (Harbinger & Co).

Yah, most of my theories are built off the hope that there won't be a drastic deus ex machina. Like you, I can't imagine a way for even the combined known species in the game standing up to a Reaper fleet, so I assume their will be infighting. This is also sort of based on my own bias for stories where heroes need to work with an enemy to win the war, which we saw in ME2.

Anyway, I've proposed a few theories over the months that might have avenues to a possible "Shepard dies to save universe" ending, sort of like DA:O (just like Awakening's ending had similarities to ME2). But I really hope it's not that simple, since ending the Reaper threat completely would destroy a possible antagonist for later games, so I'd prefer we crippled them and leave a power struggle.

One of my other theories is that perhaps every Reaper is not equal, but I base this off my theory of how the Reapers began here.

http://social.biowar...5/index/1513253

What if the Reapers made from later species had huge defects, making them drones like husks? So, out of that entire army we saw at the end of ME2, only a handfull are actual smart AI Reapers (the rest are like Collectors, where they act in concert but can be taken over directly by the real Reaper). Then, we'd only really need to destroy the original Reapers to stop the army by chopping the head off.

But you'd have to figure out which is the original, not an easy task with so many in the fleet.

The fact we have a stealth frigate would probably help, though.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It must be in the Ascension book. Around page 285, I think.

Outside media doesn't count.

....what? So the comics and books written by the same people who wrote the game don't count?

I hope this is a joke.

Modifié par Mallissin, 24 novembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mallissin wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It must be in the Ascension book. Around page 285, I think.

Outside media doesn't count.

....what? So the comics and books written by the same people who wrote the game don't count?

I hope this is a joke.

No. 

If it's in some something outside the game that I have to go buy seperately, then it's outside junk.  It's just more crap they can sell.  Refering to the books or comics is like saying that we "know" that Garrus and Saren are secretly brothers because you saw them together on a T-shirt for sale on the website. 

[Mallissin]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It must be in the Ascension book. Around page 285, I think.

Outside media doesn't count.

....what? So the comics and books written by the same people who wrote the game don't count?

I hope this is a joke.

No. 

If
it's in some something outside the game that I have to go buy
seperately, then it's outside junk.  It's just more crap they can sell. 
Refering to the books or comics is like saying that we "know" that
Garrus and Saren are secretly brothers because you saw them together on a
T-shirt for sale on the website.  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png

Nice strawman argument. Did I accidentally feed a troll?

The games reference the books and comics, and vice versa. They are canon.

Modifié par Mallissin, 24 novembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Zulu_DFA]

@ Mallissin



What bugs me most is how Harbinger totally failed to acknowledge Sovereign's existence.

[Mallissin]

Hmmm. I don't remember Harbinger ever mentioning Sovereign either.



But we never really had a chat with Harbinger, did we? Besides the combat quotes.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mallissin wrote...

Hmmm. I don't remember Harbinger ever mentioning Sovereign either.

But we never really had a chat with Harbinger, did we? Besides the combat quotes.

Harbinger also "chats" a little with the Collector General and Collector minions on Horizon.

Looking at it from a purely metagame perspective:

Harbinger does confirm TIM's hunch that the Humans receive very special attention of the Reapers, but it fails to confirm the second part of TIM's hunch that it's because of Shepard's taking out Sovereign.

There is also a telltale coming from the Mad Prophet, which strangely groups Humans with the Vorcha and the Krogans, as "the lesser races", which are going to be everybody's "downfall". The plague in Omega's slums also comes to mind, although it seems to selectively affect the Krogans (Grunt gets sick, but not the Blood Pack warriors...)

All in all I sense a very big "Chekhov's Gun" here, just can't quite pinpoint it.

I've read your (and others') Reaper theories, but  can't really say anything. As to their origins, it's too much of a guess land, I guess, lol! Liked the info and speculation about the stars' and clusters' names. There totally should be a separate thread for it -- what is what in who's mythology, and what it could mean as far as the symbolism goes.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 novembre 2010 - 09:25 .

[Soahfreako]

Zan Mura wrote...

None of BW's plots have ever been insanely complex or too far-fetched. They rely on a simple story that works, makes sense and delivers to the average Joe. Yet is still detailed and well-written enough to appeal decently well even to most of those who would like more, a deeper meaning if you may. I'm absolutely certain there won't be any sudden twists to what's already been established in the plot. I expect there will be surprises, and some major "aha!" -experience sure, but nothing as profound as suddenly going back on everything that's been revealed thus far.

I believe the Protheans and Vigil were exactly what they seemed to be. That the datafile was exactly was it was, with no real hidden meanings.

And here's the response I've been looking for. I bet Bioware's just laughing it up reading these types of posts. "Why are they trying to go so deep? Hah!" I know I would be, were I in their position.

[Mallissin]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Harbinger does confirm TIM's hunch that the Humans receive very special attention of the Reapers, but it fails to confirm the second part of TIM's hunch that it's because of Shepard's taking out Sovereign.

While some of my own theories play on this idea, it's not necessarily true. It could be that Harbinger wants Shepard because of his contact with the Prothean beacon. He could be able to extract information from his dead brain and DNA to figure out why it worked on him.

There is also a telltale coming from the Mad Prophet, which strangely groups Humans with the Vorcha and the Krogans, as "the lesser races", which are going to be everybody's "downfall". The plague in Omega's slums also comes to mind, although it seems to selectively affect the Krogans (Grunt gets sick, but not the Blood Pack warriors...)

I first thought the Prophet was one of Sovereign's indoctrinated Batarians from when he was discovered in Revelation. I thought it was kind of weird for a Batarian to look down on the Krogans, so I figured it had something to do with Saren (a turian who hates Krogan and Humans).

Maybe Saren has a Batarian cult still out there worshipping him, who were lead to believe HE was fighting the Reapers and Shepard was the one helping them (playing to the mistrust Batarians have for Humans). Otherwise, how could someone say humans are working with the Reapers when we were pivotal in killing Sovereign? Kasumi's secret data aside, he was obviously indoctrinated into believing whatever he believes but maybe not by Reaper technology.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mallissin wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Harbinger does confirm TIM's hunch that the Humans receive very special attention of the Reapers, but it fails to confirm the second part of TIM's hunch that it's because of Shepard's taking out Sovereign.

While some of my own theories play on this idea, it's not necessarily true. It could be that Harbinger wants Shepard because of his contact with the Prothean beacon. He could be able to extract information from his dead brain and DNA to figure out why it worked on him.

The interest in Shepard in particular is unsurprizing, seeing as how everbody in the Galaxy (except maybe Delan the Mechanic and Donnel Udina the Councillor) thinks that Shepard is the best (nuff said) human. But all the Human-Reaper business is a proof that the Reapers have a profound interest in the Mankind as a whole. And I doubt they were just "Hey, look ,they killed our bro Sovereign, must be tough dudes, lets harvest them!" Especially when this line of thinking is not confirmed and not even hinted at by Harbinger or any circumstantial evidence. So I think the interest must be a long-lasting one, not just two years old... However, the revelation about the Reapers' existence resulting from Sovereign's activity must have triggered early whatever the plan Harbinger had.

Mallissin wrote...

There is also a telltale coming from the Mad Prophet, which strangely groups Humans with the Vorcha and the Krogans, as "the lesser races", which are going to be everybody's "downfall". The plague in Omega's slums also comes to mind, although it seems to selectively affect the Krogans (Grunt gets sick, but not the Blood Pack warriors...)

I first thought the Prophet was one of Sovereign's indoctrinated Batarians from when he was discovered in Revelation. I thought it was kind of weird for a Batarian to look down on the Krogans, so I figured it had something to do with Saren (a turian who hates Krogan and Humans).

Maybe Saren has a Batarian cult still out there worshipping him, who were lead to believe HE was fighting the Reapers and Shepard was the one helping them (playing to the mistrust Batarians have for Humans). Otherwise, how could someone say humans are working with the Reapers when we were pivotal in killing Sovereign? Kasumi's secret data aside, he was obviously indoctrinated into believing whatever he believes but maybe not by Reaper technology.

May have something to do with all the hudsh-hush about Sovereign's nature. If the Batarians do know something about it, it's only supports their mistrust of the Humans. Who says the Reapers didn't deliberatly masterminded the Human's rise to power. Sovereigns destruction may have been an unfortunate accident, or a deliberate sacrifice...

And yes, I think too that the Mad Prophet and his cult of the "Word"(and perhaps even the Balak's terrorist movement, even if only inspired and/or supported spiritually by the cult) is a result of the Batarian involvement with Sovereign (Leviathan of Dis?) in the 2160s.

Saren as a martyr of the Humans might have some symbolic value to the Batarians, and again we return to the "Sovereign was rogue" idea: maybe its selfish plans were seen by the Batarians (and later by Saren) as a way to save the Galaxy from the rest of the Reapers, break the cycle of extinction somehow by submitting to Sovereign or something... With Sovereign destroyed, the Mad Prophet got totally desperate and went on announcing the inevitable end.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 novembre 2010 - 04:14 .

[kmcd5722]

 hmm, all interesting theories.  
watch this video and go to 2:26.  this video was made for e3 2006 before ME1 was released.  the asari mentions that some people ALREADY KNOW the reapers are about to return.  it's too bad this scene never made it into the game, as it would have had a litany of questions to answer now.  evidence of people knowing of the eventual return of the reapers is shown through the deliberate action of the council to cover-up what happened to sovereign.  they know damn well what is about to happen.  but how? and why haven't they done anything to stop it?  i understand that by telling the galaxy "oh by the way, you're all about to be vaporized and/or turned into slaves in the next few years LOL!" wouldn't go over so well, but why do nothing??

my guess is that there is some back door dealing going on with the reapers (and not just the collector slaves) that we humans who have entered so late onto the galactic stage (whether intentionally or not by some grand design), and it will be our doom or our salvation to embrace it once it happens. 

my only concern is that bioware ends up reading these and realizes they can't have one concise theory and are therefore reduced to having ME3 end with shepard waking up from his long dream, link's awakening style.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mad Prophet is Mad.



Take him no more seriously than you'd take a guy screaming about the end of the world on a street corner in real life.