103 réponses à ce sujet

[VampireCommando]

Now before y'all go hating me just here me just here me out. I find it rather conclusive that Liara cares about shep more that any other character in the ME universe at present because of a number of things, when Shepard died and te shadow broker was after ouur dear Shep's corpse to give to those scummy collectors Liara was the only one that attempted t find his body, let alone recver it from the shadow brokers grasp. Now before you say cerberus approached Liara and asked her i'm quite sure that; A) Liara was the only one that bothered looking for Shep's body, regardless of LI or friendships she was the only one that was actively looking to bury her former commander, hell even Ash that for some of us was a LI wasn't looking or that the Alliance, Hackket and Anderson werent looking to bury the hero of the galaxy, nor were the rest of Shepards other friends, Joker, Garrus, Wrex and so on fourth, they just seemed t accept that he was dead and didn't bother trying to bury him. I'm think cerberus would of approached the rest of shep's former team for help in recovering his body to secure the best chances of sucess, this i cannot prove however it seems rather likey no?

Now there is all of the things in LoTSB, like the dog tags she gives to Shep, why did she have them if not to care so much? also there is the armour in her appartment, i don't se any of the other team mates with that or anything like that, why did she have it? Sentamentality maybe of her former commander, friend and maybe lover?


It just strikes me as Liara cares about Shep the most, i'm not saying that the others don't care but i'm saying that i don't think they care as much as what Liara does, as none as them have went through the efforts and struggles that she has. Now i'm not saying i'm right as i this is just MY OPPINION i'm not trying to change anyone elses mind on the matter or trying to prove she is better than the others it is simply my oppinion and i feel the need to voice it. Now what i want to know is if any of you guys agree with me and why or if any of you dissagree and why, i more than welcome a discusion and constructive feedback:).

[starwarschewy]

VampireCommando wrote...

Now before y'all go hating me just here me just here me out. I find it rather conclusive that Liara cares about shep more that any other character in the ME universe at present because of a number of things, when Shepard died and te shadow broker was after ouur dear Shep's corpse to give to those scummy collectors Liara was the only one that attempted t find his body, let alone recver it from the shadow brokers grasp. Now before you say cerberus approached Liara and asked her i'm quite sure that; A) Liara was the only one that bothered looking for Shep's body, regardless of LI or friendships she was the only one that was actively looking to bury her former commander, hell even Ash that for some of us was a LI wasn't looking or that the Alliance, Hackket and Anderson werent looking to bury the hero of the galaxy, nor were the rest of Shepards other friends, Joker, Garrus, Wrex and so on fourth, they just seemed t accept that he was dead and didn't bother trying to bury him. I'm think cerberus would of approached the rest of shep's former team for help in recovering his body to secure the best chances of sucess, this i cannot prove however it seems rather likey no?

Now there is all of the things in LoTSB, like the dog tags she gives to Shep, why did she have them if not to care so much? also there is the armour in her appartment, i don't se any of the other team mates with that or anything like that, why did she have it? Sentamentality maybe of her former commander, friend and maybe lover?


It just strikes me as Liara cares about Shep the most, i'm not saying that the others don't care but i'm saying that i don't think they care as much as what Liara does, as none as them have went through the efforts and struggles that she has. Now i'm not saying i'm right as i this is just MY OPPINION i'm not trying to change anyone elses mind on the matter or trying to prove she is better than the others it is simply my oppinion and i feel the need to voice it. Now what i want to know is if any of you guys agree with me and why or if any of you dissagree and why, i more than welcome a discusion and constructive feedback:).

 
i agree with you 100 % 

Modifié par starwarschewy, 12 septembre 2010 - 04:21 .

[upsettingshorts]

Probably, though I think others cared equally - they didn't have the combination of personality and lack of professional responsibility that Liara did.

Ashley and Kaidan are soldiers. In their line of work, they understand that hey, sometimes people die. I won't go so far as to say they dealt with it like professionals, but they probably tried to. That's what they were trained to do.

Garrus went about honoring Shepard in his own way, by following his advice towards either C-Sec or the Spectres on his way to being Archangel.

Wrex is Wrex.

Liara's life work - on the other hand - is more or less completed through the events of Mass Effect 1.  Shepard changed her life in a profound way, personally and professionally.  

But in general I agree with your post.

Edit: Forgot about Tali, but I usually do.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 septembre 2010 - 04:31 .

[Christmas Ape]

To be fair to everyone else: Space is basically incomprehensibly vast and empty, and looking for a single human corpse is a fool's errand. Liara's basically a teenager, and what teenager isn't known for grand passions and a complete unwillingness to believe a thing is impossible if they want it badly enough?



She's also, given her mother was an influential matriarch, likely quite wealthy and can afford to set up such an expedition, maintain a home in which she can keep Shepard's armor, etc. The VS is still on active service with the Alliance, Garrus doesn't really have skills that he's comfortable using for pay without a lot of red tape, Tali's always been all about her people, and Shepard meets the other four during the course of ME2. Liara has advantages the others lack that allow her to seem the most involved because she can bring the most to bear on the situation.

[AndroLeonidas]

There are a lot of things that come out in the game that weigh heavily in what you are saying and no matter how Bioware tries to make it out to seem... (Whether she was an LI or not) I'm sorry... I don't buy someone who was just a good friend doing the things she did.



Listen... they had a month together before the Collector attack. Does anyone think for an instant that they did not continue to explore what they obviously discovered. That they did not meld more than that one time in-game? No matter how you cut it... whether you romanced her or not... Liara was deeply in love with Shepard. Period. The line "I couldn't let you go" is all the proof you need.



I've said Bioware could have an epic romance here... along the lines of the one they started but didn't d*mn finish with Revan and Bastila. I was very skeptical after ME2 came out that they had not destroyed the Shepard/Liara romance. After LofSB Bioware has reestablish my faith in them. They can truly turn this into an epic romance for the ages considering how the LotSB ended. That is what I am hoping for and I will be very upset if it doesn't happen.



Of course... I'll just use my fanfiction to make sure it does happen. lol!

[AndroLeonidas]

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair to everyone else: Space is basically incomprehensibly vast and empty, and looking for a single human corpse is a fool's errand. Liara's basically a teenager, and what teenager isn't known for grand passions and a complete unwillingness to believe a thing is impossible if they want it badly enough?

She's also, given her mother was an influential matriarch, likely quite wealthy and can afford to set up such an expedition, maintain a home in which she can keep Shepard's armor, etc. The VS is still on active service with the Alliance, Garrus doesn't really have skills that he's comfortable using for pay without a lot of red tape, Tali's always been all about her people, and Shepard meets the other four during the course of ME2. Liara has advantages the others lack that allow her to seem the most involved because she can bring the most to bear on the situation.

I agree in part with what you are saying... but the armor in her home, digging up the dogtags... these are things that happened AFTER she recovered the body. That in and of itself tells me that there is more to her actions. I.E. She loved him completely.

And I wouldn't exactly refer to her as a teenager. It may seem that way to some... but she is 106 when she meets him and I would rather consider her to be mid twenties in human age. It's not like she isn't a worldly person before she meets Shepard because she is.

[robtheguru]

I agree totally. She is blatantly smitten with Shepard and everyone should be able to see this in the dialogue. As Andro has said, it truely has the chance to be one of the greatest romances in the history of fictional works.



My sig pretty much says how I want the Shepard story arc to end in ME3 (for my Paragade atleast). Would like multiple endings with it though. One very happy i.e. my sig and one remeniscent of a Shakespearean tragedy.

[VampireCommando]

Wow i was expecting to get ripped to pieces here, but its damn good to see i'm not alone in what i think, i also think that so far all of you are right in what you've said. I'm quite sure that when Garrus went and trained as a Spectre in was in Shep's memory. Andro you are tatally right that it does appear that Liara is totally in love with Shepard regardless of Shep feeling the same way or not.

[auuus]

(Played maleshep, so that's why I'm using "he" and "him)

While I won't contradict the fact that Liara cares a lot about Shepard, I would like to point out that the reason that no-one else found him could simply be that the Shadow Broker managed to get a hold of his body before anyone else could. It makes a lot more sense, since the council and the alliance would suffer from bad public opinion if they didn't recover the body of one of the galaxys greatest heroes.



And, concerning the rescue of Shepards body, I got the feeling that Liara hadn't told anyone where to find it, or that she planned on liberating it from the Shadow Broker.



About the keepsakes. Some people are more sentimental than others, but that doesn't mean that the ones who aren't don't care. People, or in this case aliens, work differently.



When push comes to shove, I'm not saying that she didn't care the most either, but I don't agree with your argument.

[AndroLeonidas]

I think everyone mourned in their own way for Shepard. I was disappointed with how Ashley and Kaiden responded and it wasn't fixed at the end of the game. I always saved Ashley out of some protective nature and what she says to him on Horizon is so contridictary(sp) in my opinion. She says she would have followed him anywhere yet in the next sentence she is calling him a traitor. It's one of the reasons I could never bring myself to romance her in ME1. I just didn't care for how she came across. Hell... I love a strong woman... but Ash was just too overpowering in my opinion. And then after you beat the Collectors no email of apology or attempt at reconsiliation.(sp)



No matter how many times I have gone back and played ME1 I can't bring myself to romance anyone but Liara. Even as a female Shep.



Ah well...

[AndroLeonidas]

auuus wrote...

(Played maleshep, so that's why I'm using "he" and "him)
While I won't contradict the fact that Liara cares a lot about Shepard, I would like to point out that the reason that no-one else found him could simply be that the Shadow Broker managed to get a hold of his body before anyone else could. It makes a lot more sense, since the council and the alliance would suffer from bad public opinion if they didn't recover the body of one of the galaxys greatest heroes.

Plausible yes... but given what Joker said when you first meet him in ME2... not likely. The Council and the Alliance wanted it gone. Everything he had stirred up. That tells me they didn't care in the least about finding his body.

And, concerning the rescue of Shepards body, I got the feeling that Liara hadn't told anyone where to find it, or that she planned on liberating it from the Shadow Broker.

Another good point. We don't know if she tried to contact anyone else. Even if she had... given their roles within Alliance military I doubt they would have assisted her. Or gone to the lengths she did.

About the keepsakes. Some people are more sentimental than others, but that doesn't mean that the ones who aren't don't care. People, or in this case aliens, work differently.

I agree. But actually going to the planet where the Normandy crashed and taking the time to dig up his dog tags and armor? I can't see Ash doing that. Granted she is a different type of person yes... but these actions just show me how much Liara loved Shepard.

When push comes to shove, I'm not saying that she didn't care the most either, but I don't agree with your argument.

Cool beans. We agree to disagree.

[auuus]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Plausible yes... but given what Joker said when you first meet him in ME2... not likely. The Council and the Alliance wanted it gone. Everything he had stirred up. That tells me they didn't care in the least about finding his body.


Another good point. We don't know if she tried to contact anyone else. Even if she had... given their roles within Alliance military I doubt they would have assisted her. Or gone to the lengths she did.

I agree. But actually going to the planet where the Normandy crashed and taking the time to dig up his dog tags and armor? I can't see Ash doing that. Granted she is a different type of person yes... but these actions just show me how much Liara loved Shepard.
Cool beans. We agree to disagree.

Well, regarding the LI's, then definately. But, I didn't play with any LI in the first game when I finished it last time (I was saving Shepard for Tali ). Then it seemed more as if Tali and Garrus got about as distraught as Liara, but could handle it better.
And the two of them (Or really, all of the members of the squad except Liara), had duties that prevented them from searching. I guess they felt that honoring the dead by helping the living was better.

So, I would rather say that Liara had a harder time letting go than the rest. But, each to his or her own. Have a nice day! ^^

[VampireCommando]

See the only probelm i have with is if Ash is your LI, she even admits that in ME2 she loved Shepard, now if she did love him then i'm sure she would of been able to get some time off of work - she would of been given leave under emotional circumstance - that she could of used to at least recver his dog tags, or attempt to find a body to bury, but no, nothing, this is what annoying me the most in ME2, Ash says she loved you, but doesn't seem to express it much if at all.

[VampireCommando]

Bumptidy Bump Bump .

[Neria Rose]

auuus wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Plausible yes... but given what Joker said when you first meet him in ME2... not likely. The Council and the Alliance wanted it gone. Everything he had stirred up. That tells me they didn't care in the least about finding his body.


Another good point. We don't know if she tried to contact anyone else. Even if she had... given their roles within Alliance military I doubt they would have assisted her. Or gone to the lengths she did.

I agree. But actually going to the planet where the Normandy crashed and taking the time to dig up his dog tags and armor? I can't see Ash doing that. Granted she is a different type of person yes... but these actions just show me how much Liara loved Shepard.
Cool beans. We agree to disagree.

Well, regarding the LI's, then definately. But, I didn't play with any LI in the first game when I finished it last time (I was saving Shepard for Tali ). Then it seemed more as if Tali and Garrus got about as distraught as Liara, but could handle it better.
And the two of them (Or really, all of the members of the squad except Liara), had duties that prevented them from searching. I guess they felt that honoring the dead by helping the living was better.

So, I would rather say that Liara had a harder time letting go than the rest. But, each to his or her own. Have a nice day! ^^

This. They reacted in expected ways. The dead are gone, you need to move on and keep living. My Shep would have wanted them to keep up the good fight and not worry about her body (which was an empty shell and nothing more). Liara 'caring' more had little do with it, especially when you could have a Shep who wanted little to do with her and let her know it (as was the case with mine).

[IndigoWolfe]

I would say that she is certainly the most dedicated to Shepard.

But it gets very complicated when you're talking about her caring in general the most about Shepard. I think I'll agree with York and wait until the conclusion of the romance arcs.

[Lovestories]

yorkj86 wrote...

She's had the greatest amount of time to care about him, that's for sure. I'll wait until ME3 to see how the romance arcs for each love-interest are concluded before I render my judgment.

I agree with this. Not like every LI has recieved their own DLC now is it

[antique_nova]

I think she does as she is love with him or her even when you don't romance her, but as someone else has said i think she is acting a bit like a teenager in a way and Shepard is her first love that she is intersted in and first love always dies hard.
thanks
Antique_nova

Modifié par antique_nova, 12 septembre 2010 - 09:42 .

[DigitalMaster37]

OP I totally agree with you 110%

[DigitalMaster37]

antique_nova wrote...

I think she does as she is love with him or her even when you don't romance her, but as someone else has said i think she is acting a bit like a teenager in a way and Shepard is her first love that she is intersted in and first love always dies hard.
thanks
Antique_nova

Well if that is the case, then I'd say teen love is the strongest. I'm betting Sheperd is eternlly grateful to Liara otherwise this wouldn't be a trilogy. period

[XX55XX]

You do make a convincing argument. Perhaps Liara was unable to deal with the trauma of losing Shepard and sought every way to make sure that he didn't die. Perhaps her lack of maturity during that time contributed to this.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Probably, though I think others cared equally - they didn't have the combination of personality and lack of professional responsibility that Liara did.

Ashley and Kaidan are soldiers. In their line of work, they understand that hey, sometimes people die. I won't go so far as to say they dealt with it like professionals, but they probably tried to. That's what they were trained to do.

Garrus went about honoring Shepard in his own way, by following his advice towards either C-Sec or the Spectres on his way to being Archangel.

Wrex is Wrex.

Liara's life work - on the other hand - is more or less completed through the events of Mass Effect 1.  Shepard changed her life in a profound way, personally and professionally.  

But in general I agree with your post.

Edit: Forgot about Tali, but I usually do.

Good post.

I agree, especially in regards to Ashley and Kaiden. Of the ME1 squadmates they are the least able to to go chasing after Shepard's corpse, as they are military. Unlike Garrus, Wrex, Liara or Tali they don't have the ability to go where and do what they please. They had orders that placed them under Shepard's command for the duration of his mission, once he was killed in action and the Normandy destroyed, they would have been issued new orders and transferred to another command.

Also as you pointed out, as Marines they probably deal with death a little differently than Liara since they experience it with more frequency. That doesn't mean however that they necessarily mourned Shepard any less.

[LessThanKate]

VampireCommando wrote...

See the only problem I have with is if Ash is your LI, she even admits that in
ME2 she loved Shepard, now if she did love him then I’m sure she would of been
able to get some time off of work - she would of been given leave under
emotional circumstance - that she could of used to at least recover his dog
tags, or attempt to find a body to bury, but no, nothing, this is what annoying
me the most in ME2, Ash says she loved you, but doesn't seem to express it much
if at all.

That doesn't seem entirely fair. Ashley and Kaiden are soldiers; they probably
wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if a single death were to shatter them
emotionally. And I don't know that they had any knowledge of where the Normandy crashed or where--in
the vast emptiness of space--Shepard's body might have been. Seems like a matter of good timing; Shepard was revived shortly after the wreckage was discovered.


As far as Ashley goes, she seemed to deal with Shepard's death in a normal,
human way. She prayed for him, dwelt on it for a bit, and moved on with her
life. In her case, the pain faded, but the feelings remained. I don't know if
she does this or anything similar with a female or non-romanced male
Shepard...though I like to think she did. I would have loved it if she gave my
main FemShep a hug and an apology letter, but she's not like Liara; Shepard is
not her entire world....and she's not nearly as...touchy either. Remember, she's used to seeing friends die. You don't join the military unless you're willing to sacrifice yourself. She knew that, Kaiden knows it (though he seems to take it a bit rougher), Shepard knows it.


Liara most certainly cares for Shepard. I don't think it should be about how
much she cared against the others, but the manner in which she cared. If you
lost someone to an incurable disease, does not trying to find a cure and moving
on with your life mean you don't care?


To be perfectly honest, I've always found Lirara's fascination with (my)
Shepard to be...off-putting. Maybe that's why I romanced Ashley with my
male Shep and Garrus with my female one; much as they admire Shepard, they are
their own persons. Still, Liara seems personified by dedication, and it's not
without purpose. After all, without her, Shepard's body would belong to the
Collectors.


So yeah...not caring more, just...in a...very special way.

Modifié par LessThanKate, 13 septembre 2010 - 02:15 .

[DigitalMaster37]

LessThanKate wrote...

VampireCommando wrote...

See the only problem I have with is if Ash is your LI, she even admits that in
ME2 she loved Shepard, now if she did love him then I’m sure she would of been
able to get some time off of work - she would of been given leave under
emotional circumstance - that she could of used to at least recover his dog
tags, or attempt to find a body to bury, but no, nothing, this is what annoying
me the most in ME2, Ash says she loved you, but doesn't seem to express it much
if at all.

That doesn't seem entirely fair. Ashley and Kaiden are soldiers; they probably
wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if a single death were to shatter them
emotionally. And I don't know that they had any knowledge of where the Normandy crashed or where--in
the vast emptiness of space--Shepard's body might have been. Seems like a matter of good timing; Shepard was revived shortly after the wreckage was discovered.


As far as Ashley goes, she seemed to deal with Shepard's death in a normal,
human way. She prayed for him, dwelt on it for a bit, and moved on with her
life. In her case, the pain faded, but the feelings remained. I don't know if
she does this or anything similar with a female or non-romanced male
Shepard...though I like to think she did. I would have loved it if she gave my
main FemShep a hug and an apology letter, but she's not like Liara; Shepard is
not her entire world....and she's not nearly as...touchy either. Remember, she's used to seeing friends die. You don't join the military unless you're willing to sacrifice yourself. She knew that, Kaiden knows it (though he seems to take it a bit rougher), Shepard knows it.


Liara most certainly cares for Shepard. I don't think it should be about how
much she cared against the others, but the manner in which she cared. If you
lost someone to an incurable disease, does not trying to find a cure and moving
on with your life mean you don't care?


To be perfectly honest, I've always found Lirara's fascination with (my)
Shepard to be...off-putting. Maybe that's why I romanced Ashley with my
male Shep and Garrus with my female one; much as they admire Shepard, they are
their own persons. Still, Liara seems personified by dedication, and it's not
without purpose. After all, without her, Shepard's body would belong to the
Collectors.


So yeah...not caring more, just...in a...very special way.

I think VampireCommando is right. If you have ever been in love or deeply cared about someone, jobs, duties no longer matter if something is wrong. Yet in your defense LessThanKate, I will say that people show emotion in different ways. So overall it is nearly impossible to say who cared the most in this instance because some people become disabled in tragedy. They throw in the towel and just mourn until they can't anymore. Others may try to find closure. I think Liara was looking for closure. Sheperd saved her from certain death. She probably felt a sense of duty to somehow return the favor. The same can't be said about Ashley or Kaiden, they werent saved perse by SHep. So from that standpoint, I will say that you have an argument, but overall I must say that if I had to choose I would always want my lover or teammate to come looking for me if I died or was in danger. So the argument can really go both ways. Liara acted on her emotions where the others did not, or just were too calculating to think it would have even made a difference to go looking for him.