103 réponses à ce sujet

[Newnation]

The thing I find kind of funny is that the only people that reacted happily about seeing you again are Chakwas, Anderson, and the aliens. Joker was...well Joker. The Alliance, Ash/Kaiden and the Council pretty much tell you to F*** off. Also, Liara is the most empathic person you meet. Whether or not that is her personality or if most asari are like that I don't know. She's also the only person that feels sorry for Saren when everyone else says lets kill him.

Modifié par Newnation, 13 septembre 2010 - 03:13 .

[LessThanKate]

I think VampireCommando is right. If you have ever been in love or deeply cared about someone, jobs, duties no longer matter if something is wrong. Yet in your defense LessThanKate, I will say that people show emotion in different ways. So overall it is nearly impossible to say who cared the most in this instance because some people become disabled in tragedy. They throw in the towel and just mourn until they can't anymore. Others may try to find closure. I think Liara was looking for closure. Sheperd saved her from certain death. She probably felt a sense of duty to somehow return the favor. The same can't be said about Ashley or Kaiden, they werent saved perse by SHep. So from that standpoint, I will say that you have an argument, but overall I must say that if I had to choose I would always want my lover or teammate to come looking for me if I died or was in danger. So the argument can really go both ways. Liara acted on her emotions where the others did not, or just were too calculating to think it would have even made a difference to go looking for him.
 

Fair enough. Liara's actions seemed sentimental, romantic...a lot easier to tell she was distressed. I'm not trying to sell her short or anything, just that the actions of each character reflects who they are. She seems a lot more emotional than most of the others, and she's also in the minority in that she didn't start in any military or combat-oriented profession. Most of the cast consists of hardened warriers, she was just an archeologist. Some people might not even cry when they lose someone, doesn't mean they're not hurting.

It's been touched on in other posts, but there's also the fact that Liara's journey has been given  a lot of attention. We know a lot about what she did and her...mental shifts. We only have a gist of everyone else, but a lot can happen in two years.

[Adhin]

Also pretty sure Garrus, Tali, and Wrex left after the whole Saren thing. Only Ash/kaiden and Liara stuck around. Tali was done with her pilgrimage and was off back home, Garrus when it was all over went and did whatever Shep convinced him was the best option (C-sec or Spectre).

Basically half the squad heard about it second hand. Liara, Ash or Kaiden where the only ones with first had knowledge of what happened. Story wise to fit with all the variations, the only one out of them 3 who could possibly have done anything is Liara, other 2 had jobs and depending on what happens 1 of them is dead. It's that simple. Liara was the only one in place who Cerberus could get in contact with to get help getting the body back.

Example, Garrus points out after he tried whatever (C-Sec/Spectre) he pretty much drops from radar. Cerberus has no idea where he went, no one does. Only time anyone realizes Archangel is Garrus is when you meet up with him. So not like they could contact him, and he already had a lot of responsibility going on with his own squad. Tali had the fleet, Wrex has his people to lead.

[AndroLeonidas]

Adhin wrote...

Also pretty sure Garrus, Tali, and Wrex left after the whole Saren thing. Only Ash/kaiden and Liara stuck around. Tali was done with her pilgrimage and was off back home, Garrus when it was all over went and did whatever Shep convinced him was the best option (C-sec or Spectre).
Basically half the squad heard about it second hand. Liara, Ash or Kaiden where the only ones with first had knowledge of what happened. Story wise to fit with all the variations, the only one out of them 3 who could possibly have done anything is Liara, other 2 had jobs and depending on what happens 1 of them is dead. It's that simple. Liara was the only one in place who Cerberus could get in contact with to get help getting the body back.
Example, Garrus points out after he tried whatever (C-Sec/Spectre) he pretty much drops from radar. Cerberus has no idea where he went, no one does. Only time anyone realizes Archangel is Garrus is when you meet up with him. So not like they could contact him, and he already had a lot of responsibility going on with his own squad. Tali had the fleet, Wrex has his people to lead.

Hey... do we even know for sure who was on the Normandy with him besides Liara and Joker when the Collectors attacked? I can see Tali, Garrus and Wrex splitting. They had things to do. Ashley was only temporarily assigned to the Normandy for the Saren mission. Kaiden either died on Virmire or was on the ship.

I don't remember hearing who was on the ship. Jacob tells him some of them... but for th elife of me right now I have a brain block.

[Cypher0020]

I agree with OP..... I played my Non LI file and liked what happened after the DLC, and for the LI file I really like the romance..



either a friend or a lover, Liara really shines and holds Shepard close to her

[Adhin]

Well Kaiden and Ashly both say 'you where are commander' and I think they basically say (if not directly) they where there and present during the collector surprise attack. With the whole you just disappeared after and so forth. The other 3 give you a rundown of events like they had no idea your ship was blown up.

I should of been paying more attention my current Vanguard shep (whos going for Tali >.>) JUST got to the part where he talks with Ashly and I completely forgot her exact words. Think I'll go look around on youtube see if I can't find a non-romance version, since there's a whole lot of almost crying in that version.

[ReiSilver]

the thing is when you romance Liara her actions are romantic and moving.



But if you didn't romance her then her actions become.... well just a tad creepy to be honest. On one hand it's tragic that she'd go so far for someone she obviously loves but who doesn't return those feelings, and also raises stalker-ish warning signs that she just will not let you go even though you told her you just want to be fiends or in some cases were an ass to her.



I'm just saying context changes how you see things O_o

[Adhin]

To an extent yeah but I'd probably feel more that way (the omg you stalker!) if it was 100% purely on her end. But It wasn't, Cerberus instigated it, got her involved, and more or less helped her along. Now despite the relationship you ended with ME1 you ultimately did MORE for her then Feron did. You saved her life in more then 1 way and profoundly changed her existence. Feron betrayed her a few times then got guilty and sacrificed him self. That's sweet but she goes crazy obsessive over him. That's the only part I have a hard time believing.

But then that could just be some kinda repressed urge due to Shep and you being out of her hands after 'saving' shep's body. Like she didn't know what to do and Feron was the last sort of thing she could focus on, and ended getting all obsessive over it. Kinda like how people get obsessed with job stuff. Or how people obsessively do weird things cause they don't have anything better to do. Guess that kinda thinking cheapens it a bit but its the best I can figure.

To much to fast for her and shes just coping with it all best she can?

-edit-
@AndroLeonidas: Think I found the part where it more directly points to them being part of your crew while everything went to hell on the original Normandy. When you talk to Anderson on the Citadel and ask about Kaiden/Ashly Shep directly asks what happend to them 'after the normandys was destroyed' or something like that. He gives you the basic they where reassigned and blah blah, something else but he can't talk about it, classified. I think thats about as close as you get with out them directly saying they where directly on the ship.

Modifié par Adhin, 13 septembre 2010 - 10:59 .

[Zan Mura]

To the OP: You do go out of your way to state something that just seems obvious to me. As if you assumed there's a huge crowd out there who doesn't agree, and trying your best to convince them otherwise. It's pretty clear that Liara isn't a people person, I'd be surprised if her "friends" made up even the fingers in her left hand. To her, Shepard regardless of any romance or lack thereof, is the closest real friend she has. Not just that, Shepard effectively changed her entire life. The extreme infatuation and respect she had for Shepard in ME1 clearly hasn't gone anywhere, even if it is tempered by the experiences in the past 2 years of her life.

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair to everyone else: Space is basically incomprehensibly vast and empty, and looking for a single human corpse is a fool's errand. Liara's basically a teenager, and what teenager isn't known for grand passions and a complete unwillingness to believe a thing is impossible if they want it badly enough?

She's also, given her mother was an influential matriarch, likely quite wealthy and can afford to set up such an expedition, maintain a home in which she can keep Shepard's armor, etc. The VS is still on active service with the Alliance, Garrus doesn't really have skills that he's comfortable using for pay without a lot of red tape, Tali's always been all about her people, and Shepard meets the other four during the course of ME2. Liara has advantages the others lack that allow her to seem the most involved because she can bring the most to bear on the situation.

I agree that you can't really say Liara cares for Shep more than any other member of your party does, because the others may not have had the chance to express their opinions. But I read the OP as saying that out of all the people Liara herself knows, Shepard is clearly the most important one on a personal level. And that is beyond a doubt true.

But you have to remember that while Liara is barely more than a teenager where her age is concerned, it's been a feature of her personality all along to act exactly as she has. Out of all the people Shepard knows, Liara is undoubtedly one of the smartest, if not - the - smartest. And she's also a child of one of the most powerful matriarchs (and biotics) in the galaxy. She has personal ability and potential that goes far beyond what most would assume in ME1. Also, she's applied that same single-minded attitude to everything throughout the series. In ME1, she was completely focused on Prothean research at the expense of all social relationships or other parts of life. When Shepard came into the scene, Liara practically devoted her full attention to her and her goals. With Shepard gone, it was quite logical for her to devote every second of her life to finding her body and gathering information, both of which to others would indeed seem a fool's errand, much like her Prothean research earlier did. She never cared how others felt, and doesn't now either. She does what she enjoys doing, and what she feels she must.

My point being, in my opinion it's not Liara's age, but her base nature to be so single-mindedly obsessed with whatever she sets her mind on. This is further enhanced by her natural intellect, prowess and power that enable her to succeed where others would fail. In a way, she realises this herself. When she asks for Shepard to remain close and visit her regularly after LotSB, I view that as a combination of two things. For one, she genuinely truly cares for Shepard, especially during a romance. But there's also another reason, she knows she can't help herself. She needs the information, she needs to dedicate herself absolutely to whatever she is doing. And so if there's no-one to remind her, to pull her back and give her perspective, she WILL lose herself as the shadow broker. We may even see some of this during ME3 if your Shepard refused to let her close (the scene where you can refuse her visit to the Normandy by saying "Let's keep this professional.").

So in a way, where other companions might care for Shepard just as much as Liara does, the difference is that most of the other companions who would do that, also have other friends and relationships in their lives. For Liara, Shepard is basically it. Ultimately she has no-one else. By virtue of that, Shepard really is more important to Liara than to anyone else.

It's kind of sad really.

Modifié par Zan Mura, 13 septembre 2010 - 12:35 .

[VampireCommando]

It's great to see everyones opinions on the matter, I love reading them all so keep up the good debate guys. You all make great points either for or against so keep it up .

[PseudoEthnic]

Adhin wrote...

Also pretty sure Garrus, Tali, and Wrex left after the whole Saren thing. Only Ash/kaiden and Liara stuck around. Tali was done with her pilgrimage and was off back home, Garrus when it was all over went and did whatever Shep convinced him was the best option (C-sec or Spectre).

Actually, if you give Tali the geth data from the first game, and talk to Jacob about what happened to the Normandy crew after the ship was destroyed, he'll say that the non-Alliance crew Liara and the quarian all made it out alive. Tali was still with you while Garrus and Wrex(if alive) bounced when the Saren thing was over.

[Adhin]

Ooooo thats right!. So Kaiden/Ashly, Liara and Tali all stuck around. That explains why Tali has more of a big reaction then Garrus does. Always loved Wrex's reaction, funny seeing him so happy. Like a 3 year old walking into a candy store. *arms failing* Shepard =D

Ah well, either way I think Liara got started on the 'finding shepards body' due to Cerberus. I don't think she would just grab a ship and start searching planets. That or she got word the SB had come into possession of the body and didn't want him selling it. But then the comics didn't exactly explain the 'up to' part at all. In fact I haven't heard a SINGLE up to normandy exploding and Liara all of a sudden having information on where to find sheps body. Or well if I have I don't remember.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


I think VampireCommando is right. If you have ever been in love or deeply cared about someone, jobs, duties no longer matter if something is wrong.

That isn't really possible or realistic for people who serve in a military unit. It is a way of life as much as it is a 'job,' and discipline is strictly enforced. If Ashley for example were just to take off to hunt for Shepard's body, she could be charged with desertion. Although we don't know what the penalties for desertion are in Alliance Space, it's a safe bet that it involves at least some time in the brig (military prison), loss of rank and pay, and possible dismissal from the service.

With that in mind it wouldn't make much sense for Ash to just shirk her duties to search for  Shepard's body. Given what she knew at the time it would be a fool's errand, trying to locate his body in the vastness of space. Why should she risk her career and imprisonment to find someone who was dead and gone? It might be a different story of Shepard had been captured by the Collectors, but as far as she knew he was dead and gone for good.

Ashley not looking for Shepard isn't a sign that she didn't care about him. Out of the ME1 squadmates she's the character least able to attempt it.

Kaiden may or may not be in the same boat as Ashley. His situation may have been different than Ashley's since he was an officer. Some real world militaries do allow officers to resign their commisions (unlike enlisted personnel, who must complete an enlistment contract), so Kaiden *may* have been able to resign to look for femme Shep. But since we dont really know what the rules and regs are for the Alliance military, it is also just as likely that he is bound to a contract just as Ashley is. Either way Kaiden not looking for Shep isn't a sign that he didn't care about her. As far as he knew it wasn't possible to bring someone back from the dead, and he saw Shepard die. What was the point of looking for a body that should have completely burned up in the planet's atmosphere?

It is a minor miracle that anything at all of Shepard was recovered, let alone that he was resurrected.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 13 septembre 2010 - 09:28 .

[Newnation]

After reading Redemption, Liara was searching for Shephard before Cerberus tasked her with finding the body. She just didn't know he was dead.

Modifié par Newnation, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[antique_nova]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

antique_nova wrote...

I think she does as she is love with him or her even when you don't romance her, but as someone else has said i think she is acting a bit like a teenager in a way and Shepard is her first love that she is intersted in and first love always dies hard.
thanks
Antique_nova

Well if that is the case, then I'd say teen love is the strongest. I'm betting Sheperd is eternlly grateful to Liara otherwise this wouldn't be a trilogy. period

First love is often the hardest to break.

[Unit-Alpha]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Probably, though I think others cared equally - they didn't have the combination of personality and lack of professional responsibility that Liara did.

This is part of it. The OP is probably right; also, Liara seems to have that special place in the developer realm of ME characters. I'd say this is also part of the reason she is the only character who is truly emotional at Shepard's return/survival. She was also the one that facilitated the entire "save Shepard" thing. All the other crew members (sorry, but that includes Tali, you Talimancers) went off and did whatever they wanted to. Ash/Kaiden makes some sense as they are military and are used to this. Wrex is a Krogan so that's just his personality. Garrus is a bit questionable, but he seems to use the killing mercenary thing to blow off steam at the loss. I expected Tali to be much more elated at Shepard's return and much more saddened by his/her death, but she only seemed superficially elated when we meet her again. Either she didn't care, or the writing was poor.

[Therion942]

It's a little bit silly to say "Liara cared the most"

Liara was given an opportunity to rescue someone important, that someone was important to several other people as well but they were not given the opportunity. There was no Cerberus letter given to them.



Any one of the Normandy crew would have done the same if given the opportunity supposing your Shepard was decent to them.

[Unit-Alpha]

Therion942 wrote...

It's a little bit silly to say "Liara cared the most"
Liara was given an opportunity to rescue someone important, that someone was important to several other people as well but they were not given the opportunity. There was no Cerberus letter given to them.

Any one of the Normandy crew would have done the same if given the opportunity supposing your Shepard was decent to them.

Did you read Redemption? Liara was working independently to find Shepard at the beginning; no other squadmate was ever said to have done that by BW's canon. She wasn't handed a letter from Cerberus. On the contrary, she was actually captured by Cerberus; however, Cerberus gave her some intel to help her on her mission because they wanted Shepard to survive for humanity's sake.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 22 septembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[Sable Phoenix]

Zan Mura wrote...

To the OP: You do go out of your way to state something that just seems obvious to me. As if you assumed there's a huge crowd out there who doesn't agree, and trying your best to convince them otherwise. It's pretty clear that Liara isn't a people person, I'd be surprised if her "friends" made up even the fingers in her left hand. To her, Shepard regardless of any romance or lack thereof, is the closest real friend she has. Not just that, Shepard effectively changed her entire life. The extreme infatuation and respect she had for Shepard in ME1 clearly hasn't gone anywhere, even if it is tempered by the experiences in the past 2 years of her life.

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair to everyone else: Space is basically incomprehensibly vast and empty, and looking for a single human corpse is a fool's errand. Liara's basically a teenager, and what teenager isn't known for grand passions and a complete unwillingness to believe a thing is impossible if they want it badly enough?

She's also, given her mother was an influential matriarch, likely quite wealthy and can afford to set up such an expedition, maintain a home in which she can keep Shepard's armor, etc. The VS is still on active service with the Alliance, Garrus doesn't really have skills that he's comfortable using for pay without a lot of red tape, Tali's always been all about her people, and Shepard meets the other four during the course of ME2. Liara has advantages the others lack that allow her to seem the most involved because she can bring the most to bear on the situation.

I agree that you can't really say Liara cares for Shep more than any other member of your party does, because the others may not have had the chance to express their opinions. But I read the OP as saying that out of all the people Liara herself knows, Shepard is clearly the most important one on a personal level. And that is beyond a doubt true.

But you have to remember that while Liara is barely more than a teenager where her age is concerned, it's been a feature of her personality all along to act exactly as she has. Out of all the people Shepard knows, Liara is undoubtedly one of the smartest, if not - the - smartest. And she's also a child of one of the most powerful matriarchs (and biotics) in the galaxy. She has personal ability and potential that goes far beyond what most would assume in ME1. Also, she's applied that same single-minded attitude to everything throughout the series. In ME1, she was completely focused on Prothean research at the expense of all social relationships or other parts of life. When Shepard came into the scene, Liara practically devoted her full attention to her and her goals. With Shepard gone, it was quite logical for her to devote every second of her life to finding her body and gathering information, both of which to others would indeed seem a fool's errand, much like her Prothean research earlier did. She never cared how others felt, and doesn't now either. She does what she enjoys doing, and what she feels she must.

My point being, in my opinion it's not Liara's age, but her base nature to be so single-mindedly obsessed with whatever she sets her mind on. This is further enhanced by her natural intellect, prowess and power that enable her to succeed where others would fail. In a way, she realises this herself. When she asks for Shepard to remain close and visit her regularly after LotSB, I view that as a combination of two things. For one, she genuinely truly cares for Shepard, especially during a romance. But there's also another reason, she knows she can't help herself. She needs the information, she needs to dedicate herself absolutely to whatever she is doing. And so if there's no-one to remind her, to pull her back and give her perspective, she WILL lose herself as the shadow broker. We may even see some of this during ME3 if your Shepard refused to let her close (the scene where you can refuse her visit to the Normandy by saying "Let's keep this professional.").

So in a way, where other companions might care for Shepard just as much as Liara does, the difference is that most of the other companions who would do that, also have other friends and relationships in their lives. For Liara, Shepard is basically it. Ultimately she has no-one else. By virtue of that, Shepard really is more important to Liara than to anyone else.

It's kind of sad really.

I think everything written here is exactly on point. This perfectly describes the character I see Liara as.  She is an A-type personality, and despite being tempered with an overdose of empathy that's uncommon in A-type personalities, she bores down singlemindedly on whatever her objective is and ignores all distractions or attempts to stop her.

And it is sad, too.  ME2's Shepard has been cut off from everything of the previous life and may just be one of the most isolated characters in the galaxy... except for Liara.  The sole thing either one of them has to rely on is each other.  I honestly cannot visualize brushing Liara off or "keeping it professional", unless a particular playthrough treats Shepard as some kind of flaming alien-hating bigot.  At the very least, the two should be close friends.

[JediSoth]

LotSB has swayed me to believe this is so. I felt bad for her when I told her I was with Tali now. Fortunately, I have a save from before I romanced Tali just for this sort of thing. I always felt Liara was a Shep fangirl (of course, you could make the argument that Shep is such a big Alpha that most women are his fangirls), and I'm glad Bioware is letting the romance continue across games. They did an especially good job at the end of the DLC where you finally see the toll the past two years have taken on Liara and her reaction when all the pressure is finally off. It was touching.



That being said, I'm still going to do a playthrough where Tali is my One True Love. She's too cute to just abandon her down in engineering.

[tonnactus]

AndroLeonidas wrote...
I don't buy someone who was just a good friend doing the things she did.

She did the same for feron.
If she isnt shepardts romance partner,she is just the best friend someone could have.

Modifié par tonnactus, 24 septembre 2010 - 04:21 .

[enayasoul]

I have to agree... I think Liara is in fact deeply in love with him. Infatuated yes... she is a close friend as well. She has really grown up in a way... a woman now? The dlc was great, the best thus far! The whole relationship between Shepard and Liara made me want to revisit Mass Effect 1 to romance her and then import that save game into Mass Effect 2. When I played as just close friends, I felt kind of sad at the end where he wishes she would come back soon. I was like damn. She is a true friend. I have yet to finish my Shepard romance in ME2 but from watching the youtube videos it made me happy. I think Liara's love scene in ME1 was the best! "By the goddess!"

[Snowship]

Are we miss-interpreting her feelings for the concerns of a Stalker!
Where not even death will stop her coming after Shepard

Now that she's got the resources of the SB will we find hidden camera's in Shepards quarters, spying on us 24/7..







...we'll have to take her down to be really free from her

[Meshakhad2]

I agree. Many characters care about Shepard, but Liara's practically obsessed.