585 réponses à ce sujet

[PWENER]

This little piece of mind is given to TIM at the end of ME2 regardles of you giving the base to Cerberus or blowing it to oblivion. It sounds really peculiar, as if Shepard is threatening or advicing TIM of not using the base for evil (although I don't mind a little human supremacy, but that's just me). Everyone here knows that's exactly what TIM will use it for, it's the only thing it's for.

At the end of ME1 we get the option to either save the council, concentrate on Sovereign or for a little extra renegade points "let them die" on pourpose. If your not catching up yet, BW has made two paths to follow since ME1's ending. If you kill the council, humanity steps in to take charge, if you save them humanity steps in as equals (kinda).

In ME2, TIM says to Shepard, "It will secure our dominance in the galaxy, against the Reapers and beyond" to wich Shepard canoly responds with "human dominance, or just Cerberus?" (What I find interesting is that it sounds like Shep likes the idea of human dominace, but not Cerberus dominance. That's what it sounds to me, I took the base so you make the math).

What Im trying to explain is that the Collector base won't be used by Cerberus to win the Reaper war, but instead will be used to take control of the galaxy away from the other races. Apperantly, it will be even more effective if you killed the council and the new one is "human exclusive" (the more renegade, the more control we have I guess).


Paragon endings: Humanity becomes an equal with the council races.

Renegade endings: Humanity will take over the galaxy looking down on the other races.


So for those of you using the excuse of taking the base for fighting the Reapers, stop lying to yourselfs and face the truth (I kept it and killed the council, but at least I know what's coming). We'll just have to wait and see if ME3 has another ending in wich we choose a renegade ending or a paragon one (I personally think it shouldn't have one and that the ending should be based on your choices in ME1 & ME2).

Now discuss whethever Im right or wrong and please don't judge my endgame decisions and motivations, it's a game and Im always sick of playing good guy in Fable II and such.

[Homebound]

Kill the council + keep base = Galactic war against Humanity once the Reaper threat is gone, or Humanity faces Reapers alone.

[Commander Maklai]

base tech corrupts humanity like it did the protheans before them and they become the new collectors.

[Dave of Canada]

I keep the base and I don't trust Cerberus to use wisely at all once the Reapers are dealt with. Why? Because there won't be any universe for Cerberus to use the base against if the Reapers win, without metagaming or throwing our gamer knowledge into the lot you don't know if the base is all that stands between glorious victory or bitter defeat.

You've got a treasure trove of information, blowing it up only to spite Cerberus or because you don't trust them seems silly and self righteous (and a case of the trope "Honor before Reason"). TIM pretty much promises you that he'll help you fight the Reapers (he won't attack aliens when he fully knows that would be the stupidest thing ever) and I trust him to keep to his word.

Even on my Paragons, I keep the base for Cerberus.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2010 - 05:39 .

[InHarmsWay]

I saw the base having more risks than benefits. I destroyed it because of that reason, not to spite Cerberus. I'm relying on uniting the galaxy. And with the SB's Base I can do some black mailing.

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 12 septembre 2010 - 05:53 .

[PWENER]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I keep the base and I don't trust Cerberus to use wisely at all once the Reapers are dealt with. Why? Because there won't be any universe for Cerberus to use the base against if the Reapers win, without metagaming or throwing our gamer knowledge into the lot you don't know if the base is all that stands between glorious victory or bitter defeat.

You've got a treasure trove of information, blowing it up only to spite Cerberus or because you don't trust them seems silly and self righteous (and a case of the trope "Honor before Reason"). TIM pretty much promises you that he'll help you fight the Reapers (he won't attack aliens when he fully knows that would be the stupidest thing ever) and I trust him to keep to his word.

Even on my Paragons, I keep the base for Cerberus.

This is exactly the kind of post I was looking for (I still want human dominance though).

There will also not be a war against humanity, that's what the base and human council are for. The other races are also too separated to unite in an all out revolution war against us (they can't even believe the Reaper threat is real, they can go to hell, they don't deserve to control the galaxy, we do. After all, we're the only ones actually doing anything to stop the Repaers).

[Cyansomnia]

I blew up the base. Reaper technology is dangerous and unpredictable. That was proven time and time again through ME1 and ME2. The IFF allowed the Collectors to find and attack the Normandy, people are easily indoctrinated, as evidenced on the derelict reaper. My Shepard had seen enough to make that call, and didn't feel at all bad about it. Keeping the base was too much of a risk.

[fongiel24]

PWENER wrote...

This is exactly the kind of post I was looking for (I still want human dominance though).

There will also not be a war against humanity, that's what the base and human council are for. The other races are also too separated to unite in an all out revolution war against us (they can't even believe the Reaper threat is real, they can go to hell, they don't deserve to control the galaxy, we do. After all, we're the only ones actually doing anything to stop the Repaers).

If by "we" you mean Shepard, Anderson, and Cerberus, then you're right. If by "we" you mean humanity, then there's a problem. There's no evidence that the Alliance is acknowledging and preparing for the Reapers any more than the other Council races are.

As for uniting to crush humanity... they don't really need to unite to beat us. The turian fleet alone outnumbers the human fleet 4-to-1 in dreadnoughts and probably has a similar advantage in smaller vessels and troops. Humanity is acknowledged as a sleeping giant, but if one of the stronger Council races realizes humanity plans to attempt galactic domination and strikes first, there's no guarantee that "sleeping giant" will be able to wake up in time to defend itself.

Taking advantage of the Collector base's advanced technology won't necessarily mean victory either. Reaper technology is incredibly advanced and seems to have a nasty habit of blowing up in the faces of lesser races that attempt to fool around with it (the derelict Reaper, the Paul Grayson fiasco). Even if humanity does figure some of it out, it takes time and resources to build new warships. It's unlikely humanity would be able to keep those efforts secret. We also have the problem that Shepard handed the base over to Cerberus, not the Alliance. Cerberus has even less resources to fully exploit Reaper tech, lacking the money and personnel to build a fleet by itself.

Modifié par fongiel24, 12 septembre 2010 - 06:08 .

[MassEffect762]

Possible outcomes. I don't see TIM doing anything before the Reapers are toast.



1) TIM helps you defeat Reapers, betrays you and starts his power trip.

2) TIM helps you defeat Reapers, you betray him and start your power trip.

3) TIM helps you defeat Reapers, later on war breaks out between humanity and aliens.

4) TIM/Shepard are fooled into believing they had an edge with the base, Reapers regain control and crush all races.

[Dave of Canada]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

I blew up the base. Reaper technology is dangerous and unpredictable.

But EDI, the Citadel and most weaponry used by Shepard is from Reapers. Either given willingly or by reverse engineering a few pieces of Sovereign.

[Dave of Canada]

MassEffect762 wrote...

4) TIM/Shepard are fooled into believing they had an edge with the base, Reapers regain control and crush all races.

I really would punch a baby if this happened. Renegades already get yelled and scolded by everybody while Paragons just happen to make everybody happy and do a good job at it (while taking insanely stupid risks).

[Shadow_broker]

Possible Outcomes



1:Superior Happy Paragon outcome where everything turns out daisies and roses



2:Inferior But still good renegade outcome with a dark undertone



3:Fail outcomee



These are the 3 endings of ME3 you know it's true

[MassEffect762]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Possible Outcomes


2:Inferior But still good renegade outcome with a dark undertone

I happened to like the "renegade/sith"  ending with bastilla  in KOTOR alot more than the "paragon/jedi" ending.

I don't see why they couldn't do the same in ME especially with SB liara, muwahahah.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 12 septembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[PWENER]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Possible outcomes. I don't see TIM doing anything before the Reapers are toast.

1) TIM helps you defeat Reapers, betrays you and starts his power trip.

2) TIM helps you defeat Reapers, you betray him and start your power trip.

3) TIM helps you defeat Reapers, later on war breaks out between humanity and aliens.

4) TIM/Shepard are fooled into believing they had an edge with the base, Reapers regain control and crush all races.

Hell yes 

[mosor]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Possible Outcomes

1:Superior Happy Paragon outcome where everything turns out daisies and roses

2:Inferior But still good renegade outcome with a dark undertone

3:Fail outcomee

These are the 3 endings of ME3 you know it's true

Really depends on what you consider inferior or superior. An outcome with humanity licking salaran hoof, or kowtowing to asari dancers isn't superior to me.

Now humanity being king of the hill, being the USA of the 22nd century is appealing to me.

That being said. I don't think saving the base or destroying it will make a lick of difference in anything but the epilogue.

[sumof all fear]

In my main play-through I killed off the council hoping to get some people in office who would believe me and not just sit on their ass eating cake the whole time. What I got was Anderson still trying to help but the rest of the council being dumb puppets for humanity who still don't believe the reapers surprisingly enough, which frankly feels weird because Anderson is suppose to be the 'real' leader and he still says he believes in the reapers.



then in ME2 I destroyed the base because of several things, firstly because like the OP I think that Cerberus will just use the base to wage war on the aliens and oppress my beloved turrians and asari. and also because I see what it represents, the idiot's choice of warfare. As legion points out by using provided technology we blind ourselves to alternatives, even if it is our enemy's tech we are eliminating our ability to be unique and innovative.

[PWENER]

sumof all fear wrote...

In my main play-through I killed off the council hoping to get some people in office who would believe me and not just sit on their ass eating cake the whole time. What I got was Anderson still trying to help but the rest of the council being dumb puppets for humanity who still don't believe the reapers surprisingly enough, which frankly feels weird because Anderson is suppose to be the 'real' leader and he still says he believes in the reapers.

then in ME2 I destroyed the base because of several things, firstly because like the OP I think that Cerberus will just use the base to wage war on the aliens and oppress my beloved turrians and asari. and also because I see what it represents, the idiot's choice of warfare. As legion points out by using provided technology we blind ourselves to alternatives, even if it is our enemy's tech we are eliminating our ability to be unique and innovative.

I'd like to point out that I know this may happen, but Im all for human dominance even if it means war.

[Lemonwizard]

There's one pretty obvious problem with the "Reaper technology is dangerous, so you have to destroy the base" argument.





Which is that once you've killed all the collectors, you can blow the thing up at your leisure whenever you damn well please. It's silly to not at least take a few days to find out what you're dealing with first.







Of course, I blow up the base because I'd rather get turned into a reaper than live in a galaxy ruled by the Illusive man, but I still recognize that from the "beat the reapers" standpoint my decision is wrong.

[PWENER]

Lemonwizard wrote...

There's one pretty obvious problem with the "Reaper technology is dangerous, so you have to destroy the base" argument.


Which is that once you've killed all the collectors, you can blow the thing up at your leisure whenever you damn well please. It's silly to not at least take a few days to find out what you're dealing with first.



Of course, I blow up the base because I'd rather get turned into a reaper than live in a galaxy ruled by the Illusive man, but I still recognize that from the "beat the reapers" standpoint my decision is wrong.

At least you recognize that your wrong (unlike some people on the forums). You save countless lives by destroying the Reapers and a human controlled galaxy doesn't sound too bad either.

I doubt it'll be an Illusive Man dictatorship, Cerberus isn't that powerful and it would throw the human dominace thing out the window for a Cerberus one (ain't gonna happen).

Also, if the Illusive Man takes over the galaxy, who do you think will be his succesor? *cough* Shepard *cough*.

[Iakus]

I blew up the base. Granted I play paragon, but not all the reasons are purely paragon:



1) Cerberus's track record in playing around with alien tech is spotty at best.



2) Given Harbringer's ability to access the Collectors via remote, there's little reason not to think he couldn't do the same with other devices at the base. Who's to say he doesn't have some sort of indoctrination device he just has to flip a switch and he ends up "assuming direct control" of whatever Cerberus team is stationed at the base?



3) Given Cerberus' past, assuming the base is useful in defeating the Reapers, who is to say that Cerberus will not turn around and become the "new Reapers"? This may in fact be what Shepard meant about "not sacrificing the soul of our species" What's the point of defeating the Reapers if we end up turning ourselves into Reapers?



4) The Reapers have deliberately left their tech lying around so we can develop along the lines they want. Having the Reaper base may take us further along that path than they anticipated, but it won't teach us anything the Reapers don't already know. I don't see the benefits outweighing the risks.



The way I see it, if you keep the base, it may give some benefits for ME 3, but will likely block you off from others aiding you (likely the Alliance or Citadel). It will also almost certainly darken the overall ending (like keeping the Anvil of the Void in DAO)



Perhaps the really dark ending will have a Shepard-Reaper doing a biotic charge against a turian dreadnaught while yelling "I am the vanguard of your destruction!"

[jbblue05]

Cerberus only has a couple hundred people in their organization
How the hell are they going to go to war against the whole galaxy.

If anyone has to start the war its the Alliance they have manpower
But the Alliance and Cerberus isn't stupid no matter how advanced their technology is they don't have the manpower and resources to start a war against a United Galaxy

Liara is more likely to start an intergalactic war then Cerberus.

How the hell would Cerberus build a Reaper?
How would they get away kidnapping 10 million+ people to create the core of the Reaper
Where would they get the resources to create a Reaper do you knpw huge they are?
I believe Shepard would intervene if they were going to create a Reaper.
Their is no Death Star that blows up planets in 1 shot the Reapers don't even have that

Its pretty obvious the base is going to be used to understand Reaper's weak points and salvaging the tech .

Paragons always hope for the worse with Cerberus but hope for the best with the Alliance iand Council

Modifié par jbblue05, 12 septembre 2010 - 06:59 .

[HomicidialFrog]

"Your civilization is based on the technology of the Mass Relays. Our technology. By using it you develop along paths we desire."

[MassEffect762]

HomicidialFrog wrote...

"Your civilization is based on the technology of the Mass Relays. Our technology. By using it you develop along paths we desire."

Smart, very smart.

[HomicidialFrog]

MassEffect762 wrote...

HomicidialFrog wrote...

"Your civilization is based on the technology of the Mass Relays. Our technology. By using it you develop along paths we desire."

Smart, very smart.

That quote actually managed to pop into my head when deciding whether to keep the base or not...Weird. Maybe it's cause I played Mass Effect 1 about 50 times before 2 came out.

[smudboy]

iakus wrote...

I blew up the base. Granted I play paragon, but not all the reasons are purely paragon:

1) Cerberus's track record in playing around with alien tech is spotty at best.

EDI?  Geth?

2) Given Harbringer's ability to access the Collectors via remote, there's little reason not to think he couldn't do the same with other devices at the base. Who's to say he doesn't have some sort of indoctrination device he just has to flip a switch and he ends up "assuming direct control" of whatever Cerberus team is stationed at the base?

Who's to say he does?  "Releasing control"?  We don't know how indoctrination works aside from being in/near a Reaper.

3) Given Cerberus' past, assuming the base is useful in defeating the Reapers, who is to say that Cerberus will not turn around and become the "new Reapers"? This may in fact be what Shepard meant about "not sacrificing the soul of our species" What's the point of defeating the Reapers if we end up turning ourselves into Reapers?

One problem at a time.  You're betting the galaxy if the Reapers don't kill everything in the galaxy first?  Reapers have spent...forever...reaping.  OH NOES BUT TIM AND HIS BASE!

Sacrificing the soul of our blahblah-b*ll****.

4) The Reapers have deliberately left their tech lying around so we can develop along the lines they want. Having the Reaper base may take us further along that path than they anticipated, but it won't teach us anything the Reapers don't already know. I don't see the benefits outweighing the risks.

Why didn't they leave the Collector Base lying around then in plain sight?  Why didn't they have massive amounts of defenses?  Why didn't they have a fleet?  Answer: they weren't expecting anyone to get that far.

Just because the Reapers know their own technology doesn't mean we shouldn't.  A stronger weapon is still a stronger weapon; since every piece of technology we've developed has come from the Mass Relays anyway, why not advance our technology even further?  OH NOES IT'S REAPER TECH! (e.g. EDI, Thanix, every spaceship using mass effect field engine cores, etc.)

The way I see it, if you keep the base, it may give some benefits for ME 3, but will likely block you off from others aiding you (likely the Alliance or Citadel). It will also almost certainly darken the overall ending (like keeping the Anvil of the Void in DAO)

Maybe if in DAO you were fighting Immortal Golem Gods and the AOTV births said golems who want to destroy all life forever.

Perhaps the really dark ending will have a Shepard-Reaper doing a biotic charge against a turian dreadnaught while yelling "I am the vanguard of your destruction!"

Yay.

Modifié par smudboy, 12 septembre 2010 - 07:03 .