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[stewie1974]

jbblue05 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

ME2 was to punish Renegades and reward Paragons

ME3 better reward Renegades and punish Paragons

The only thing Renegades gained in ME2 was 4 more cruisers in the Alliance and got a big F U from them
we got the same Council but no dialogue with them and we are hated by aliens and no love from humans
It seems like we lose more and gain next to nothing

I don't care what happens to Renegades, but why do you care about punishing Paragons?

Because Bioware gave Renegade the big F U its only fair that Paragons suffer the same fate

I don't think bioware are ever going to "reward" renegade behaviour .

Yes it's a game.

No they can't be seen to endorse or reward bad behaviour .Most of the renegade decisions are pretty minor anyway.... After all you can't rape a LI, nor can you deliberately murder a team mate at anytime you choose...you can't even shoot civilians unless prompted....I mean you can't run around the streets and start gunning people down..... nor can you end every conversation with "BLAM".... only "some"  On my renegade playthrough I was disapointed I couldn't Shoot the looters or the people hiding in the appartment......  looting dead civilians would be the very essence of renegade.

[PWENER]

Xilizhra wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

ME2 was to punish Renegades and reward Paragons

ME3 better reward Renegades and punish Paragons

The only thing Renegades gained in ME2 was 4 more cruisers in the Alliance and got a big F U from them
we got the same Council but no dialogue with them and we are hated by aliens and no love from humans
It seems like we lose more and gain next to nothing

I don't care what happens to Renegades, but why do you care about punishing Paragons?

Because Bioware gave Renegade the big F U its only fair that Paragons suffer the same fate

Mine is better. Also, this is exactly why I play paragade. All of the good things without drawbacks (killed council and kept base though, but who said that's a bad thing?).

[JamieCOTC]

Keep the base, blow up the base. Doesn't matter. Shep has Reaper data from Collector base at the end of the game. All that matters.

[Katya Nadanova]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BristowJ wrote...
How is saving the rachni not a risk?

Save Rachni: Asari messenger tells you Rachni queen is hanging out.  Promises to help you.
Kill Rachni: Big nada.

If in Mass Effect 3 the Rachni are indoctrinated and turn on organics, half the complaints in this thread would be utterly silenced.  But it would run contrary to our expectations.

Would you be surprised if something like that happened?  I wouldn't.  Just because when you do something, you get paragon or renegade points doesn't necessarily mean that it will be a long term paragon/renegade decision.

[Fhaileas]

The whole point of this incident is knowing that being Paragon, you can not fix absolutely everything you come across, personally. A Paragon Shepard is not some anime character, who inexplicably knows his/her way around every aspect of life, and can solve mysteries with the power of magic and be right 100% of the time.

I appreciated this part of the game because it gives you perspective. It forces you to acknowledge, after running around, gunning down every merc in sight, that law and due process is still an important part of a Paragon's thinking when faced with someone who isn't armed, and without sufficient evidence to prove anything. That you need the help of people who have certain jurisdictions to solve different problems.
This whole thing is really no more of a dilemma than letting the Eclipse Merc at the top of the Dantius towers go, rather than pushing him out the window, you just don't find a data pad with his crazy confessions a few rooms later.

When Shepard is making decisions, you can't sit back and find a way for him/her to know the answer to everything just because you do.
A Renegade Shepard has a loose moral code, and can act on instinct; make decisions that often negatively impact innocent people without being encumbered by the outcome.
A Paragon Shepard has a strict moral code, and has to put those morals ahead of his/her instincts, often knowing that those moral limitations could negatively impact innocent people.

Being a Paragon involves having severe weaknesses, and owning up to your choices and their repercussions. It's what draws me to a Paragon Shepard rather than a Renegade.

Modifié par Fhaileas, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:30 .

[PWENER]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

PWENER wrote...

You guys are insane. If Harbinger said sorry and apologized for the trizillions (or infinity) of lives he and his cronies have killed, would you spare them?

.

Harbinger doesnt have a sweet girly voice or a nice rack

attrction to braindead fan service overrides logic, [b]under the excuse of: "lulz I was a paragon gewd guy"

lmao

XD

Modifié par PWENER, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:34 .

[PWENER]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Keep the base, blow up the base. Doesn't matter. Shep has Reaper data from Collector base at the end of the game. All that matters.

We've covered this already. It's one thing to know where to shoot, it's another to have the means to shoot.

[upsettingshorts]

Based on how Mass Effect 1 and 2 handle Paragon decisions, yes, I would be surprised. I wholly expect them to help out. Really.



The Collector Base though, is probably one of the best written decisions - in terms of it being a true example of what I think Paragon v. Renegade is about - not your squadmates comments - might be different. I would not be remotely shocked if blowing it up turns out to cost serious lives.

[Xilizhra]

Harbinger doesnt have a sweet girly voice or a nice rack



attrction to braindead fan service overrides logic, under the excuse of: "lulz I was a paragon gewd guy"

Don't cast aspersions on me, Renegade. I may like asari as much as the next girl, but I'd have done the same for a vorcha.

[The Big Nothing]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Based on how Mass Effect 1 and 2 handle Paragon decisions, yes, I would be surprised. I wholly expect them to help out. Really.

The Collector Base though, is probably one of the best written decisions - in terms of it being a true example of what I think Paragon v. Renegade is about - not your squadmates comments - might be different. I would not be remotely shocked if blowing it up turns out to cost serious lives.

Even if it cost a million lives, my Shepard would still walk out of an explosion in slow-motion with epic music playing in the background and a smile on his face.

[JamieCOTC]

PWENER wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Keep the base, blow up the base. Doesn't matter. Shep has Reaper data from Collector base at the end of the game. All that matters.

We've covered this already. It's one thing to know where to shoot, it's another to have the means to shoot.

And ME3 will be a completely new game just like ME2 as to bring in new players. Cerberus will most likely be put on back burner if that. 

[stewie1974]

To be 100 percent honest.



I doubt the decisions made in ME1 and ME2 will seriously affect ME3, as ME3 has to stand by itself as a video game. That means you have to be able to "win" ME3 with out having played "ME1&2".



that probablly means another conversation in a shuttle asking what you did if you don't have a save game.



Anyway in either case. everyone always does at least 3 playthroughs right?

[Katya Nadanova]

jbblue05 wrote...
Their shpuld be consequences the Rachni should want revenge against the Krogans
Wrex and the Krogans should be pi$$ed off you revive the species that kiled millions of their ancestors

"The enemy of enemy is my friend" - Wrex  Don't you think they would set aside their differences until after the reapers are defeated?  Why would the rachni want revenge?  The queen says she doesn't remember what happened before.  Besides, Wrex seemed angry?  Although Wrex didn't stop Shep from saving the rachni did he?

[PWENER]

JamieCOTC wrote...

PWENER wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Keep the base, blow up the base. Doesn't matter. Shep has Reaper data from Collector base at the end of the game. All that matters.

We've covered this already. It's one thing to know where to shoot, it's another to have the means to shoot.

And ME3 will be a completely new game just like ME2 as to bring in new players. Cerberus will most likely be put on back burner if that. 

I don't get your answear. What does that have to do with cannonity?

[Monochrome Wench]

The ending to ME1 is a bad example of the way things should be handled, but I guess Bioware didn't want to create a bittersweet ending for paragons. Selecting anything but the concentrate on soverign option should have cause major destructions, but we can't punish those poor paragons. The major paragon and renegade options that are a leap of faith, and a lot of them are, should have implications that can be negative, positive of both. Neutral choosers should not be punished because they weren't paragon or renegade and fail to gain points. If anything choosing a neutral options should reward you with half points to both paragon and renegade score, though that is a different argument.

Something that I would love to see is for each major choice to have 4 different outcomes. You'd have good and bad outcomes for both paragon and renegade options in ME3 for choices you made in ME1 and 2. ME3 would balance things out so you are not overly panalized for a string of bad but in faith decisions the player made. Idea is half of your paragon decisions turn out bad half good, half your renegade turn out bad, half good. Which choice has which outcome would be randomized, or setup so certain choices will always be bad, and others good.

With destroying the collector base there can not be the full set of outcomes so it messes things up. If you destroy the base, you are still going to be able to win ME3, but what the cost will be is unknown if there even will be one. Its pure metagaming, but its unavoidable. If you keep it there are lots of potential for things to go wrong, and even make things worse than not keeping it. Cererbus might get indoctrinated and reaper agents inflitrate the alliance. Reapers reclaim the base and start making more reapers in the middle of ME3 and strenghten their forces. And so on.  I don't think they would do that though. It makes the choice at the end of ME2 too one sided if there is a true penalty to Renegades. They can't make the fight harder but easier at the same time. The benefits and penalties will be mostly political as was the final ME1 decision.

Paragon ending to ME2 will cause greater initial casulties due to reapers compared to renegade, however renegade will cause long term conflict between humans and aliens and ends up relatively neutral after all.

Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:46 .

[PWENER]

Renegade: Funny & fun
Paragon: Dull & unrealistic

But I play...    

 

So I don't care, I choose to experience the best of both worlds.

Modifié par PWENER, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:46 .

[Mecha Tengu]

PWENER wrote...

Renegade: Funny & fun
Paragon: Dull & unrealistic
But I play...    

 

So I don't care, I choose to experience the best of both worlds.

paragade is more paragon than renegade

I play Renegon, which is self explanatory

Complete neutral playthrough is impossible, and I mean COMPLETE neutral

Modifié par Mecha Tengu, 13 septembre 2010 - 01:48 .

[Xilizhra]

PWENER wrote...

Renegade: Funny & fun
Paragon: Dull & unrealistic

But I play...    

 

So I don't care, I choose to experience the best of both worlds.

Quite an opinion. I find Renegade to be dull and painful, with Paragon being pleasant and uplifting.

[jbblue05]

BristowJ wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...
Their shpuld be consequences the Rachni should want revenge against the Krogans
Wrex and the Krogans should be pi$$ed off you revive the species that kiled millions of their ancestors

"The enemy of enemy is my friend" - Wrex  Don't you think they would set aside their differences until after the reapers are defeated?  Why would the rachni want revenge?  The queen says she doesn't remember what happened before.  Besides, Wrex seemed angry?  Although Wrex didn't stop Shep from saving the rachni did he?

Why would the rachni even fight them right now they still have to rebuild their infrastructure and buid up their numbers and Wrex is trying to unite the Krogan.  The Rachni Queen isn't going to tell you we want revenge against the Krogans when she wants you to free her.  The queen is full of crap if she can remember Reaper Indoctrination she can remember a Krogan boot on the head of a rachni queen followed up by a shotgun at point blank range.
Wrex didn't stop Shepard because he still doesn't care about reuniting the Krogan at this point and Virmire is his boiling point.

Krogans and Rachni have too much bad blood and I would expect their to be some tension between both races

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, I'm a Paragade (leaning Paragon). Thank Jebus for cheats.



I would basically describe my playthrough as nice to innocents, ruthless with bad guys, not racist, but starting to get really annoyed with the people not helping him out.

[Mecha Tengu]

Xilizhra wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Renegade: Funny & fun
Paragon: Dull & unrealistic

But I play...    

 

So I don't care, I choose to experience the best of both worlds.

Quite an opinion. I find Renegade to be dull and painful, with Paragon being pleasant and uplifting.

typical metagaming crap

playing as paragon = great sucess, and epic hero is epic hero saving the galaxy from evil

playing as a renegade leads you to kill people for no reason and become a huge douche

[Xilizhra]

I would basically describe my playthrough as nice to innocents, ruthless with bad guys, not racist, but starting to get really annoyed with the people not helping him out.

My Shepard... she'd really prefer that no one had to die at all. She'll kill when she has to, which is unfortunately frequent, but will do everything she can to alleviate that.

typical metagaming crap



playing as paragon = great sucess, and epic hero is epic hero saving the galaxy from evil



playing as a renegade leads you to kill people for no reason and become a huge douche

dealwithit.jpg

[jbblue05]

Xilizhra wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Renegade: Funny & fun
Paragon: Dull & unrealistic

But I play...    

 

So I don't care, I choose to experience the best of both worlds.

Quite an opinion. I find Renegade to be dull and painful, with Paragon being pleasant and uplifting.

I find Paragon to be idiotic and counterproductive to saving the galaxy

But that's just my opinion

[JamieCOTC]

PWENER wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

PWENER wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Keep the base, blow up the base. Doesn't matter. Shep has Reaper data from Collector base at the end of the game. All that matters.

We've covered this already. It's one thing to know where to shoot, it's another to have the means to shoot.

And ME3 will be a completely new game just like ME2 as to bring in new players. Cerberus will most likely be put on back burner if that. 

I don't get your answear. What does that have to do with cannonity?

Take a good long look at what REALLY changed in ME2.  Not much.  Paragon Sheps get some extra dialog from people they saved, but that's about it.  Kill the Council, save the Council, it's the same game.  Same will be for the base.  Not really going to matter. 

Anyway, as far as having the means to shoot, Shep has had it all along. 

[PWENER]

Paragon is too naive and good for me. Nobody with a bodycount like Shepard's can be that nice.



I find Renegade to be too jerky and stupid.



But if you choose the one that's right for the each situation, you find yourself in the shoes of an actual human being with emotions and not some sociopath or self rightious goof