585 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

This is how I would rank the council races depending if you took the Renegade path or paragon path

Renegade
1a. Humans major technology advances
1b. Asari still  boast the largest economy
2. Turians can't match Human technology and military might
3. Salarians still have their uses.

Paragon
1. Asari still reamin at top since no other species have made major technological advances.
2.Turians still major military power on the Council
3. Salarians are still more advanced then humanity
4. Humans are respected but are not top dogs.  Alliance is still licking its wounds from being decimated by the Geth and Sovereign.  Technology is still inferior to other Council races.

Renegade= Revolution

Paragon= Tradition 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think given that Shepard can respond to TIM in one of two different ways after giving him the base, I think it's fair to say it would make more sense if Shepard can make a decision regarding how to deal with Cerberus in the third game, either supportive or not. I ending up keeping the base on my paragon character, then when back and made a separate saved game with him destroying it.



Also the idea that ME 3 would have no paragon or renegade ending is kind of silly.

[HomicidialFrog]

jbblue05 wrote...

This is how I would rank the council races depending if you took the Renegade path or paragon path

Renegade
1a. Humans major technology advances
1b. Asari still  boast the largest economy
2. Turians can't match Human technology and military might
3. Salarians still have their uses.

Paragon
1. Asari still reamin at top since no other species have made major technological advances.
2.Turians still major military power on the Council
3. Salarians are still more advanced then humanity
4. Humans are respected but are not top dogs.  Alliance is still licking its wounds from being decimated by the Geth and Sovereign.  Technology is still inferior to other Council races.

Renegade= Revolution

Paragon= Tradition 

Hmm...Last I check Aliens are scared of Humans with good reason.

There as aggressive as the Krogan, research technology quickly, expand quickly, owned the turians despite only having only 3% of the Human race in the Military while the Turians have ALL there species in the Military for a short period of time and want to become just as powerful as the Council, if not more.

Humanity did fine without the base.

[PWENER]

Im glad to see people actually understanding and even more, defending my point of view. Like smudboy said, every piece of tech we have comes from the Reapers or whoever created them, so why wouldn't we take the next leap foward? Legion said that we should look for alternatives, but there aren't any.

Do people even remember the Prothean base in Mars? It jumped our technology 200 years. Keeping the Collector base is no different. Everything we have is based on the same tech left behind by the original race that created it (Mass Effect cores, Thanix cannons, EDI, ect.) and us keeping that technology is no different than what every race in the galaxy has been doing for millions of years. They find it and implement it. Rinse & repeat.

Modifié par PWENER, 12 septembre 2010 - 07:56 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

You do know that the line you use in your topic title results from the Paragon ending, right?

[Bruddajakka]

I blow it up because I don't trust any one to use the tech. No body. Not Cerberus, Not the Council, Not the Alliance. Unless it's designed to be benign nothing that involves the Reapers is going to end up being a good end. At the least we'll end up with even more Cerberus Brand Husks. At the worst they'll use whatever we take from the base against us because we'll be designing our tech even further along their lines. Besides Cerberus's track record isn't exactly what you could call good.

[Synobal]

Ya know in my opinion the real value of the tech isn't the station it's all those wrecked ships around the freaking station. They say some are thousands of years old, perhaps from before the protheans died/made into collectors. You're looking at tech from an unknown quantity of unknown races. So the illusive man didn't get his dissolve people into spaceships tech boo hoo. The damn omega 4 relay still has a ton of tech once you get through it to plunder.

[PWENER]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

You do know that the line you use in your topic title results from the Paragon ending, right?

No, you can use it for both endings. Didn't you read the opening post?

[jbblue05]

HomicidialFrog wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

This is how I would rank the council races depending if you took the Renegade path or paragon path

Renegade
1a. Humans major technology advances
1b. Asari still  boast the largest economy
2. Turians can't match Human technology and military might
3. Salarians still have their uses.

Paragon
1. Asari still reamin at top since no other species have made major technological advances.
2.Turians still major military power on the Council
3. Salarians are still more advanced then humanity
4. Humans are respected but are not top dogs.  Alliance is still licking its wounds from being decimated by the Geth and Sovereign.  Technology is still inferior to other Council races.

Renegade= Revolution

Paragon= Tradition 

Hmm...Last I check Aliens are scared of Humans with good reason.

There as aggressive as the Krogan, research technology quickly, expand quickly, owned the turians despite only having only 3% of the Human race in the Military while the Turians have ALL there species in the Military for a short period of time and want to become just as powerful as the Council, if not more.

Humanity did fine without the base.

Of course Humanity did just fine. 
Other species are more scared of the Turians , Salarians and the Asari
THe Turians have the largest military might 
Asari can embargo and put sanctions against their enemies to cripple their economy
Salarians sterilized 99% of the Krogans
The Salarians Turians and the Asari expanded quicly also. why do you think they are council races.  The Krogan would've been a council race if they didn't try to take colonies.

Turians only failed at the Citadel because they took the bulk of the damage while Humanity showed up at the last second to save the day

[Bruddajakka]

Actually no everyone is scared of the humans. Every one. The Turians, Salarians, and Asari are all terrified of them. Hell having just been on the galactic scene for a number of years Humanity had already revolutionized Space Warfare by creating Fighter Carriers.

[jbblue05]

PWENER wrote...

Im glad to see people actually understanding and evn more, defending my point of view. Like smudboy said, every piece of tech we have comes from the Reapers or whoever created them, so why wouldn't we take the next leap foward? Legion said that we should look for alternatives, but there aren't any.

Do people even remember the Prothean base in Mars? It jumped our technology 200 years. Keeping the Collector base is no different. Everything we have is based on the same tech left behind by the original race that created it (Mass Effect cores, Thanix cannons, EDI, ect.) and us keeping that technology is no different than what every race in the galaxy has been doing for millions of years. They find it and implement it. Rinse & repeat.

I agree with this.

Paragons contradict themselves all the time
If we were under the rule of paragons we would still be in the stone age

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont really care what I did.

I was to busy pulling my space bar out of my forehead after seeing the human reaper baby/terminator/ thing.



However there are giant risks down either path pick one, and you take some risks, pick another and there are still risks. There is still large amounts of danger down each path, and to believe that either a Paragon/Renegade path is the best one is dangerous and naive.

War is coming, and no matter what you are doing at the end of ME2 you are gearing up to face the greatest threat to all life, just in two different yet equal ways.

[CroGamer002]

I killed the Council and destroyed base with my Paragon canon Shep.

[PWENER]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I dont really care what I did.
I was to busy pulling my space bar out of my forehead after seeing the human reaper baby/terminator/ thing.

However there are giant risks down either path pick one, and you take some risks, pick another and there are still risks. There is still large amounts of danger down each path, and to believe that either a Paragon/Renegade path is the best one is dangerous and naive.
War is coming, and no matter what you are doing at the end of ME2 you are gearing up to face the greatest threat to all life, just in two different yet equal ways.

Equal? I don't know in what wonderland your living in, but with a threat this big I'll do anything, ANYTHING to secure that the Reapers are destroyed and all life is safe.

Against the Reapers, the end does the means. If you believe otherwise, you are the naive one.

Modifié par PWENER, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Also while the Base and Anvil choice in ME2 and DAO are similar they lack one common thread.



Branka is completely and totally insane, and has lost it. One of the possible ends to that quest is getting her to come out of her madness, and to get her to destroy the anvil to end her obsession and killing her entire house. TIM and Cerberus are not insane. Just extremeists who have a habit of seeing many of their science experiements blow up in their face.

[Synobal]

I still say the base isn't a big loss, the real value was all those wrecked ships around the thing.

[PWENER]

Mesina2 wrote...

I killed the Council and destroyed base with my Paragon canon Shep.

*Stupid mistake #1*

Humanity is gonna get they're butts chewed out when the ex-council races try to reclaim they're positions and Humanity has no means to match or defend itself from them. Good luck becoming the new Batarians.

[Dave of Canada]

Mesina2 wrote...

I killed the Council and destroyed base with my Paragon canon Shep.

I can see a lot of bad things happening in the future.

[Giggles_Manically]

PWENER wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I dont really care what I did.
I was to busy pulling my space bar out of my forehead after seeing the human reaper baby/terminator/ thing.

However there are giant risks down either path pick one, and you take some risks, pick another and there are still risks. There is still large amounts of danger down each path, and to believe that either a Paragon/Renegade path is the best one is dangerous and naive.
War is coming, and no matter what you are doing at the end of ME2 you are gearing up to face the greatest threat to all life, just in two different yet equal ways.

Equal? I don't know in what wonderland your living in, but with a threat this big I'll do anything, ANYTHING to secure that the Reapers are destroyed and all life is safe.

Against the Reapers, the end does the means. If you believe otherwise, you are the naive one.

You have no idea what TIM is going to do though. No one here has played ME3 so none of can see the results of our choices. Its all up in the air and until the either choice is valid. Its only interpertation, opionion, and ego at the moment that factor into the choices. All thoughts so far have gone "I THINK" "I WANT" "I Believe".

Dont believe that you are taking the safer path, Paragons take the risk of being at a disadvantage, Renegades take the risk of Cerberus doing something horrible or causing something bad to happen. There is no safe or better choice here. Only what you believe at this point.

[Iakus]

[quote]smudboy wrote...

[quote]iakus wrote...

I blew up the base. Granted I play paragon, but not all the reasons are purely paragon:

1) Cerberus's track record in playing around with alien tech is spotty at best.
[/quote]
EDI?  Geth?[/quote]

Thorian creepers
husks
yes, geth
rachni

To be honest, I'm stunned EDI didn't turn out to be more sinister.  But like I said "spotty" record,.  THere's an exception to every rule.

[quote]
[quote]
2) Given Harbringer's ability to access the Collectors via remote, there's little reason not to think he couldn't do the same with other devices at the base. Who's to say he doesn't have some sort of indoctrination device he just has to flip a switch and he ends up "assuming direct control" of whatever Cerberus team is stationed at the base?
[/quote]
Who's to say he does?  "Releasing control"?  We don't know how indoctrination works aside from being in/near a Reaper.[/quote]

Exactly.  We don't know.  How can we find traps if we don't know what to look for?  Particularly traps that mess with your head?  Shepard was not present for "Releasing control" so does not know Harbringer did that.  Even so, did Harbringer merely cast off a now-useless tool or if did he just lose his only link to the base?

[quote]
[quote]
3) Given Cerberus' past, assuming the base is useful in defeating the Reapers, who is to say that Cerberus will not turn around and become the "new Reapers"? This may in fact be what Shepard meant about "not sacrificing the soul of our species" What's the point of defeating the Reapers if we end up turning ourselves into Reapers?
[/quote]

One problem at a time.  You're betting the galaxy if the Reapers don't kill everything in the galaxy first?  Reapers have spent...forever...reaping.  OH NOES BUT TIM AND HIS BASE!

Sacrificing the soul of our blahblah-b*ll****.[/quote]


If I could hand access to the base over to someone more trustworthy than TIM, say Liara or Anderson,  I admit this arguement would have a lot less strength.  But with TIM, there's a very real chance that Shepard may end up compounding his problems if he saves the base.

Wouldn't it be funny if the Reapers have been periodically defeated, only to be supplanted by the race that defeated them?[quote]

[quote]
4) The Reapers have deliberately left their tech lying around so we can develop along the lines they want. Having the Reaper base may take us further along that path than they anticipated, but it won't teach us anything the Reapers don't already know. I don't see the benefits outweighing the risks.
[/quote]
Why didn't they leave the Collector Base lying around then in plain sight?  Why didn't they have massive amounts of defenses?  Why didn't they have a fleet?  Answer: they weren't expecting anyone to get that far.

Just because the Reapers know their own technology doesn't mean we shouldn't.  A stronger weapon is still a stronger weapon; since every piece of technology we've developed has come from the Mass Relays anyway, why not advance our technology even further?  OH NOES IT'S REAPER TECH! (e.g. EDI, Thanix, every spaceship using mass effect field engine cores, etc.)[/quote]

You and I both know the real reason for the lack of defenses at the Collector base is because the "story" demanded it  but that's another topic.

I admit this is the weakest of my arguements.  Knowing your enemy is an important aspect of warfare.  That and closing the tech edge.  But things get a little fuzzy when the technology can easily turn on you.  As Tali's father learned just before he died.  The thannix cannon was a good find.  Cerberus got lucky with EDI.  Fortunately none of that ended up coming alive and killing/indoctrinating/huskifying the scientists in question.

Studying Reaper tech isn't a bad thing.  But it's proven over and over to be extremely dangerous.  Cerberus has a tendency to rush too far too fast and have their experiments blow up in the process (reason #1)  Studying Reaper tech, you have to always keep in mind "Is this a trap"?  TIM would more likely think"How many agents can I afford to lose on this?"

I have a personal theory that defeating the Reapers will ultimately require the destruction of the Citadel and perhaps the entire Mass Relay network.

[quote]
The way I see it, if you keep the base, it may give some benefits for ME 3, but will likely block you off from others aiding you (likely the Alliance or Citadel). It will also almost certainly darken the overall ending (like keeping the Anvil of the Void in DAO)
[/quote]
Maybe if in DAO you were fighting Immortal Golem Gods and the AOTV births said golems who want to destroy all life forever.[/quote]

Not really sure what that means, but the keeping the Anvil, knowing how it is used, is definitely one of the more "morally grey" choices you can make in that game.

[quote]
Perhaps the really dark ending will have a Shepard-Reaper doing a biotic charge against a turian dreadnaught while yelling "I am the vanguard of your destruction!"[/quote]
Yay.
[/quote]

You know some would want this ending.

[PWENER]

Synobal wrote...

I still say the base isn't a big loss, the real value was all those wrecked ships around the thing.

You mean the ones that have been corroding for millions of years? Riiiiiight (sarcasm).

[Count Viceroy]

I wonder how many times we've had this discussion on this forum.

[Synobal]

PWENER wrote...

Synobal wrote...

I still say the base isn't a big loss, the real value was all those wrecked ships around the thing.

You mean the ones that have been corroding for millions of years? Riiiiiight (sarcasm).

You've no idea what they have been doing for that long. Considering foot prints are still preserved on the moon, there's a high chance that there are some with salvageable tech on them. Plus just look at the reaper  in ME 2 you board, it didn't seem so Corroded to me. Or the Prothean base they found on Mars...or the other instances of really old tech that humans have slavaged

Modifié par Synobal, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:08 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Really this just goes in circles at this point.



We all know the arguments for each side by heart at this point, and another thread of flames, insults, and rage fits isint going to change anything.



Really though its just a game and the easiest thing for Bioware to do is make two different quest lines that reuse a lot of stuff from the other and then have some different ending slides.

One thing they have said alot is that they hate making content few people ever get to see. So far the BIG CONSEQUENCES have only been emails, different lines, or different one minute cameos.

[Iakus]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I dont really care what I did.
I was to busy pulling my space bar out of my forehead after seeing the human reaper baby/terminator/ thing.

However there are giant risks down either path pick one, and you take some risks, pick another and there are still risks. There is still large amounts of danger down each path, and to believe that either a Paragon/Renegade path is the best one is dangerous and naive.
War is coming, and no matter what you are doing at the end of ME2 you are gearing up to face the greatest threat to all life, just in two different yet equal ways.

This.

Plus I had to laugh at your spacebar comment.  So similar to my reaction.