585 réponses à ce sujet

[Gibb_Shepard]

Dave of Canada wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Yes, I do.  The rachni were brain washed by the reapers.

And how do you know this without metagaming?

BioWare hasn't really rewarded paragons either, you get a few more conversations, congratulations.

Having the Rachni side with them and having essentially everything they do be sunshine and lolipops isn't being rewarded? Half the time, people will go "Aren't you great!" and such. For example: Talking to the crew after blowing up the Collector Base is one giant pat on the back.

Why does it matter what your crew thinks? 

Because they are still  YOUR crew that are supposed to be with you.

your a bitter old bastard aren't you

[Nightwriter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's pretty incompetent in ME1 as well. If it actually ran smoothly and did its job efficiently it wouldn't need to have Admiral Hackett constantly giving Shepard problems to fix.

But the ME1 Alliance had Hackett. And Hackett is, like, so awesome.

[wizardryforever]

I don't know, Paragon behavior is rewarded only insofar as people see you as a better person.  There are a few decisions where Renegades get rewarded because Paragons turn their noses up at something, so I don't think it's quite so Paragon focused.  Besides, we don't know if the Rachni will be useful against the Reapers.  Maybe they'll get indoctrinated again, or maybe it will cause a major incident with the Council races, and the Krogan.

And really, who wants to play a game where only the ruthless, paranoid decisions are rewarded?  I don't.

[jbblue05]

BristowJ wrote...

Those posts may irritate you but it's not like they are your decisions, that is just how other people choose to play the game.  It has no effect on you whatsoever.

Yes, I do.  The rachni were brain washed by the reapers.  I trust them as much as the krogan.  In case you forgot, the krogan threatened the galaxy as well.  The only difference being the krogan chose to go to war, the rachni didn't.  BioWare hasn't really rewarded paragons either, you get a few more conversations, congratulations.   

Why does it matter what your crew thinks?  This is Shepard's story not theirs, they are just along for the ride.  And if you felt dirty for talking with TIM afterwards, well, that's just your perspective of the conversation.  

Of course they are not my decisions and don't effect my own decisions but it does get a bit annoying  hearing those same lines in every few threads.most of the time they are just baseless accusations.
Are you sure they weren't indoctrinated I mean anything is possible right?   It doesn't matter if the Krogan or Rachni did or didn't deserve what happen to them they got themselves in a bad situation  so I say let them own up to it.. Just like HUmanity knew it was risky activating relays.

Are you seeing illusions in ME2 they reward paragons left and right.

You asked if they rewarded renegades I'm telling you what I see so far

Talking to TIM is not perspective I saved and destroyed the base and experienced both dialogues

Paragon-  Shepard speaks with a self-righteous and confident ring in his voice and is self-assured

Renegade- Shepard talks to TIM like  he's not sure about what he did  and constantly reminds TIM to fight Reapers and lets work together.  Shepard sounds like he's been neutered and lacks confidence

But that's just my opinion

[Nightwriter]

A lot of people don't want to play a game where only the saintly, uber-paragon choices are rewarded, either.

[jbblue05]

wizardryforever wrote...

I don't know, Paragon behavior is rewarded only insofar as people see you as a better person.  There are a few decisions where Renegades get rewarded because Paragons turn their noses up at something, so I don't think it's quite so Paragon focused.  Besides, we don't know if the Rachni will be useful against the Reapers.  Maybe they'll get indoctrinated again, or maybe it will cause a major incident with the Council races, and the Krogan.

And really, who wants to play a game where only the ruthless, paranoid decisions are rewarded?  I don't.

Killing Elnora is not rewarding renegades you kill a hot asari nobody wins when an asari dies I wanted to apply medigel to Vasir's wounds.also

What else do renegades get rewarded for?

Why would anyone play a game where you always make the right choice?

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

A lot of people don't want to play a game where only the saintly, uber-paragon choices are rewarded, either.

He / She's got it!

[Katya Nadanova]

Dave of Canada wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Yes, I do.  The rachni were brain washed by the reapers.

And how do you know this without metagaming?

BioWare hasn't really rewarded paragons either, you get a few more conversations, congratulations.

Having the Rachni side with them and having essentially everything they do be sunshine and lolipops isn't being rewarded? Half the time, people will go "Aren't you great!" and such. For example: Talking to the crew after blowing up the Collector Base is one giant pat on the back.

Why does it matter what your crew thinks? 

Because they are still  YOUR crew that are supposed to be with you.

Because the asari tells you on Illium?  From the first game you don't, but she does say that she knows nothing about what happened in the war.  So, you can either take her word for it, or believe she is lying and commit genocide.

How do you know the rachni are going to side with you?  Is that how it looks now?  Yes, but that may not be how it is in ME 3.  You have no way of knowing that.  Neither do I.  Well, paragons, do tend to save people's lives.  Shouldn't others be grateful knowing that someone who cares about others is protecting the galaxy?  Renegades tend not to care about others.  Renegades have a reputation for getting the job done no matter what the cost, do they not?  Renegades get the Collector base isn't that a reward?

They are with you, they don't leave afterward do they?  No, they don't.  Just because they are with you doesn't mean they have to agree with the decisions you make.

[Ultai]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

This bugs me too. I don't like Cerberus, but they don't screw everything
up. I mean, look at Overlord. TIM told Gavin Archer to find a way to
control the geth, but didn't tell him to plug David into a VI.

Most of the time, they mess up because they overestimate
themselves/underestimate the danger. The Rachni in Styx Theta got loose
because Cerberus thought they were basically animals.

When it comes to Cerberus, or covert/black ops organizations in general, you usually hear about their failures more than successes.  I may not be a fan of Cerberus, but credit is due where it's due.  You could say the main objective in the Retribution novel was obtaining research data about Reaper tech and repurposing of an organic through their experiment with Paul. Spoilers ahead.

Granted they could have just chosen some random serial killer or criminal in Omega, but they probably wanted a special kind of person...that and the fact that TIM admitted later he let his personal feelings get in the way or something to that effect.

Sure Paul/Reapers got loose, but I'm sure people supporting Cerberus would blame that on the turians and Kahlee sticking their noses in.  TIM ordered Kai Leng if even a hint of something going wrong to kill Paul.

In the end though, TIM got his data for a few million creds...I'd call that a success for Cerberus...admittedly  with some setbacks along the way. Also with Paul's body at the Citadel for autopsy, it might finally convince the aliens and the Alliance to start getting their act together come ME3.

Modifié par Ultai, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:41 .

[Dave of Canada]

BristowJ wrote...

Because the asari tells you on Illium?

That's metagaming. 

How do you know the rachni are going to side with you?

The Asari said it.

Renegades get the Collector base isn't that a reward?

Except for everybody scolding you for doing it, giving you guilt trips and people on the forums saying it should bite you in the ass. Yes, it's a reward.

They are with you, they don't leave afterward do they?  No, they don't.  Just because they are with you doesn't mean they have to agree with the decisions you make.

Legion tells me the base should be kept, destroying it would just waste all the lives it took and it could be used to save more lives.
Grunt tells me that it's a weapon to be used against the Collectors.
(I don't know who else supports the base but I know those two)

Then when I keep it!
Legion: I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOUR SHEPARD-COMMANDER.
Grunt: THE BASE IS WEAK.

What the hell? I listened to them and then they get pissed off at me, while if I do the paragon act of blowing it up EVERYBODY cheers and tells me how great I am!

(They don't leave but I suspect that's more of a gameplay mechanic considering DLC and such)

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:40 .

[Dave of Canada]

Shandepared wrote...

IIRC, Garrus, Zaeed, Mordin, Legion, and Grunt all tell you to keep the base.

And they all disapprove of blowing it up.

D:

[Katya Nadanova]

Dave of Canada wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Because the asari tells you on Illium?

That's metagaming. 

How do you know the rachni are going to side with you?

The Asari said it.

Renegades get the Collector base isn't that a reward?

Except for everybody scolding you for doing it, giving you guilt trips and people on the forums saying it should bite you in the ass. Yes, it's a reward.

They are with you, they don't leave afterward do they?  No, they don't.  Just because they are with you doesn't mean they have to agree with the decisions you make.

Legion tells me the base should be kept, destroying it would just waste all the lives it took and it could be used to save more lives.
Grunt tells me that it's a weapon to be used against the Collectors.
(I don't know who else supports the base but I know those two)

Then when I keep it!
Legion: I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOUR SHEPARD-COMMANDER.
Grunt: THE BASE IS WEAK.

What the hell? I listened to them and then they get pissed off at me, while if I do the paragon act of blowing it up EVERYBODY cheers and tells me how great I am!

(They don't leave but I suspect that's more of a gameplay mechanic considering DLC and such)

I know that was metagaming, that's why there was the bit afterwards that wasn't metagaming.  The whole genocide bit, isn't really something a paragon would do unless they think the rachni would be a greater threat in the future.  Genocide isn't something that would get celebrated, is it?

And?  Just because the asari said it doesn't mean it will happen.  It could be a plot twist.  Do I think they will be an ally?  Maybe, but I'm not counting on it.

Have you forgotten what the Collector base does?  Is their a reason they be should be happy you kept it?  Sure you can study the technology maybe get a few new toys but it's still a renegade decision.  Renegades, get the job done no matter what.  Often taking the easy path.  Using the Collector base can be seen as taking the easy path, not looking for a better option. 

They don't get pissed, (well at least I don't remember them getting pissed about it), they just disapprove.  The companion dialogue at that situation is like in the first game where one of your squad mates say:  "Save the council!"  While the other says:  "What have they done for you lately?".  Do they really believe that, maybe or maybe it was put there to make the decision more difficult?  Give you something to think about?  Sway your decision one way or another.  Prevent the decision from being to easy to make.  

[kraidy1117]

Shandepared wrote...

An equal number of paragon/renegade decisions should have outcomes that backfire on Shepard.

They won't however. Bioware has always made the "good" choices the right ones and thus the rewards are better. I am hoping ME3 changes that, but I am really not expecting it.

[jbblue05]

waiting fot another option is the lazy choice and procrasinating.

Saving the base is putting a plan together to stop the Reapers.

[ObserverStatus]

They really need to make a consequence for letting Balak escape, because I see no reason to do so other than building up paragon points.

[Dave of Canada]

BristowJ wrote...

I know that was metagaming, that's why there was the bit afterwards that wasn't metagaming.  The whole genocide bit, isn't really something a paragon would do unless they think the rachni would be a greater threat in the future.  Genocide isn't something that would get celebrated, is it?

But neither should risking the galaxy by unleashing a species that very nearly wiped it out, yet it just so happens everybody's a-okay with it.

And?  Just because the asari said it doesn't mean it will happen.  It could be a plot twist.

That would be one lame plottwist, especially since she's promised that she'll help you fight.

Have you forgotten what the Collector base does?  Is their a reason they be should be happy you kept it?

When they are the ones who suggested it in the first place, they shouldn't be the ones disapproving. What's wrong with having people disapprove of taking it and blowing it up? Can't have conflicting reports, Paragons must always be praised?

The companion dialogue at that situation is like in the first game where one of your squad mates say:  "Save the council!"  While the other says:  "What have they done for you lately?".

Doesn't work that way in ME2. Companions have one opinion and stay with it. Grunt and Legion's conversation would be like...

"I say keep the base."
"I agree."

They only change their opinion once you get onboard the Normandy where Legion facepalms and Grunt calls you weak.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 septembre 2010 - 07:05 .

[kraidy1117]

Shandepared wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

They really need to make a consequence for letting Balak escape, because I see no reason to do so other than building up paragon points.

The mission where the missiles are launched at the colony should have been automatically botched if you allowed Balak to escape. You arrive on the scene and confront him in the control room but find out that this time he made damn sure nobody could sabotage his work. Shepard watches helplessly as the colony is completely obliterated.

Ugh....if only that would have happen. That would have been amazing and at least our choices in ME would have matared.

[Ultai]

kraidy1117 wrote...

They won't however. Bioware has always made the "good" choices the right ones and thus the rewards are better. I am hoping ME3 changes that, but I am really not expecting it.

With this current trend, seems like that loading tip about "dire ramifications OooOOoo" will only apply to renegade choices.  Maybe Rana Thanoptis from Virmire might do something really sinister!  I'm not holding by breath though.

Sometimes I wonder how people would discuss the Collector Base decision if instead the choices were on both sides of the middle spokes of the dialog wheel instead of top right or bottom, since I know there are some out there that are just top left-right or bottom left-right zombies.

[Dave of Canada]

Shandepared wrote...

What I liked in ME1 is that Ashley's opinion about the rachni queen is set. If you kill the queen she approves but if you let the queen go she says she's not thrilled about it orsomething to that effect) back on the Normandy.

Did you try to "paragonize" her and do it?

[Gibb_Shepard]

Even as a paragon, i did not let balak escape, way too much of a risk. There are THREE people in the room. And one of the people sacrifised her own brother just so you could successfully kill that mother****er and stop the asteroid. I feel your betraying her by letting balak leave unscathed. Plus it was a very quick death for them, wouldn't have felt a thing.



All other important paragon decisions, IMO, are VERY justifiable. I can't find a justifiable reason to let balak go, however.

[Ultai]

A small part of me was hoping that was Balak for that mission, but then again he shouldn't be put in a small time side mission...especially one that short.