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[PWENER]

Synobal wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Synobal wrote...

I still say the base isn't a big loss, the real value was all those wrecked ships around the thing.

You mean the ones that have been corroding for millions of years? Riiiiiight (sarcasm).

You've no idea what they have been doing for that long. Considering foot prints are still preserved on the moon, there's a high chance that there are some with salvageable tech on them. Plus just look at the reaper  in ME 2 you board, it didn't seem so Corroded to me. Or the Prothean base they found on Mars...or the other instances of really old tech that humans have slavaged

I guess your right, but the story focuses on the Collector Base, so i doubt it will be relevant in ME3. It may be mentioned though, you never know.

[Synobal]

PWENER wrote...

I guess your right, but the story focuses on the Collector Base, so i doubt it will be relevant in ME3. It may be mentioned though, you never know.

Ya I'm pretty sure it won't be relevant, it was a set peice used to show how many have tried to go through the relay and a setting for a space battle. I doubt it will get any more mention. Regardless it seems to me that would be the real prize. 

[Iakus]

PWENER wrote...

I guess your right, but the story focuses on the Collector Base, so i doubt it will be relevant in ME3. It may be mentioned though, you never know.

Along the same lines, information might be salvagable from a safely-blown-up Collector base.  Not as much as a functional one, but hey, EDI and thannix cannons came from a trashed Sovereign, right?

[PWENER]

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

I guess your right, but the story focuses on the Collector Base, so i doubt it will be relevant in ME3. It may be mentioned though, you never know.

Along the same lines, information might be salvagable from a safely-blown-up Collector base.  Not as much as a functional one, but hey, EDI and thannix cannons came from a trashed Sovereign, right?

Just imagine what we'll get from Cerberus by keeping an intact base.

TIM: Shepard, we just found the cure for alzhaimer and are closing in on the secret of immortality.

Shepard: Eat your hearts out paragons.

[Xilizhra]

Increasing Cerberus' power would be bad for galactic unity and would undermine the Citadel forces' ability to pull together against the Reapers. I blammed the base.

You know I think the end game decision would have been even more
interesting if instead of working with Cerberus you were working with a
similar alien group. At the end you'd have to choose to avoid alien dominance at the expense of needed weaponry against the Reapers or you'd gain that weaponry but have to swallow a galaxy in which humanity will forever be second-rate.

The only race that hates humans in general is batarians, and... no, just no.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:21 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Shandepared wrote...

You know I think the end game decision would have been even more interesting if instead of working with Cerberus you were working with a similar alien group. At the end you'd have to choose to avoid alien dominance at the expense of needed weaponry against the Reapers or you'd gain that weaponry but have to swallow a galaxy in which humanity will forever be second-rate.

One of the devs talked about how early on in making ME2 Shep would have been saved by Legion or recoverd by him. Thats why Legion has so many lines that arent used, and the cargo bay is a reused element from early on.

[Giggles_Manically]

PWENER wrote...

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

I guess your right, but the story focuses on the Collector Base, so i doubt it will be relevant in ME3. It may be mentioned though, you never know.

Along the same lines, information might be salvagable from a safely-blown-up Collector base.  Not as much as a functional one, but hey, EDI and thannix cannons came from a trashed Sovereign, right?

Just imagine what we'll get from Cerberus by keeping an intact base.

TIM: Shepard, we just found the cure for alzhaimer and are closing in on the secret of immortality.

Shepard: Eat your hearts out paragons.

In the Mass Effect universe there are already cures for most diseases and genetic conditions.

[Dave of Canada]

You don't know what the future holds, in Shepard's shoes all he knows is that the Reapers are coming / they know pretty much everything about every species and they have superior weaponry / defenses while we don't know anything about them (and our forces are scattered already, more so if you're a renegade).

Research into how creating a Reaper, using Collector technology (the greatest technology in the galaxy apparently, since it's the top-of-the-line Reaper tech) we'd be able to prepare ourselves. The technology itself is a great enough advantage, being able to know how to destroy a Reaper and know it's structural weaknesses will be even more of an advantage.

Unless you metagame the decision (knowing fully well that in ME3, no matter what you do in previous games, you'll be able to stop the Reapers) the destruction of the base isn't very logical, regardless of your beliefs with Cerberus. My Shepard won't let his distrust of Cerberus be the destruction of the galaxy.

Even my Paragon keeps the base because he doesn't want to see the galaxy explode.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:25 .

[PWENER]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

PWENER wrote...

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

I guess your right, but the story focuses on the Collector Base, so i doubt it will be relevant in ME3. It may be mentioned though, you never know.

Along the same lines, information might be salvagable from a safely-blown-up Collector base.  Not as much as a functional one, but hey, EDI and thannix cannons came from a trashed Sovereign, right?

Just imagine what we'll get from Cerberus by keeping an intact base.

TIM: Shepard, we just found the cure for alzhaimer and are closing in on the secret of immortality.

Shepard: Eat your hearts out paragons.

In the Mass Effect universe there are already cures for most diseases and genetic conditions.

The only known one is cancer, all others are unmentioned (that's why TIM smokes so much).

Also, many people mention that they blow the base up because they don't want Cerberus supremacy, but I wouldn't mind if Cerberus took over.

Hell, when Miranda tell Shepard that she wishes they would have recruited him earlier on, mine always says
"I wished your people had made the offer".

Has anyone else gone with this?

[Xilizhra]

No. My Shepard doesn't hold with working with terrorists.

[smudboy]

iakus wrote...
Thorian creepers
husks
yes, geth
rachni

To be honest, I'm stunned EDI didn't turn out to be more sinister.  But like I said "spotty" record,.  THere's an exception to every rule.

That's not alien tech.

Exactly.  We don't know.  How can we find traps if we don't know what to look for?  Particularly traps that mess with your head?  Shepard was not present for "Releasing control" so does not know Harbringer did that.  Even so, did Harbringer merely cast off a now-useless tool or if did he just lose his only link to the base?

What double talk is this?  So we keep it, but "how will we find traps?"  What?

Maybe keeping the base: you'll find out.

BUT OH NOES BASE IS BADBADBAD.

If I could hand access to the base over to someone more trustworthy than TIM, say Liara or Anderson,  I admit this arguement would have a lot less strength.  But with TIM, there's a very real chance that Shepard may end up compounding his problems if he saves the base.

1. Cerberus brought Shepard back from the dead to fight the Collectors/Reapers. and some unknown reasons beyond the plot.
2. Cerberus made Shepard a brand new top of the line ship.
3. Cerberus is the only group doing anything about the threat.
So you want to leave the only group that believes you 100%, puts their complete trust in you, gave you a second chance at life, a new ship, a new crew, a few new upgrades, all because you don't like the way TIM talks ot you, or somesuch.

Ah huh.

Wouldn't it be funny if the Reapers have been periodically defeated, only to be supplanted by the race that defeated them?

Hilarious.

You and I both know the real reason for the lack of defenses at the Collector base is because the "story" demanded it  but that's another topic.

Oh?

I admit this is the weakest of my arguements.  Knowing your enemy is an important aspect of warfare.  That and closing the tech edge.  But things get a little fuzzy when the technology can easily turn on you.  As Tali's father learned just before he died.  The thannix cannon was a good find.  Cerberus got lucky with EDI.  Fortunately none of that ended up coming alive and killing/indoctrinating/huskifying the scientists in question.

What technology will turn on you?  You don't even know, so stop this ridiculous threat assessment of wild speculation.

Studying Reaper tech isn't a bad thing.  But it's proven over and over to be extremely dangerous.  Cerberus has a tendency to rush too far too fast and have their experiments blow up in the process (reason #1)  Studying Reaper tech, you have to always keep in mind "Is this a trap"?  TIM would more likely think"How many agents can I afford to lose on this?"

I am shaking in my space boots.

I have a personal theory that defeating the Reapers will ultimately require the destruction of the Citadel and perhaps the entire Mass Relay network.

Yes.

Not really sure what that means, but the keeping the Anvil, knowing how it is used, is definitely one of the more "morally grey" choices you can make in that game.

Wrong game.

You know some would want this ending.

These people need to be shot.

Modifié par smudboy, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:41 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Dave of Canada wrote...

You don't know what the future holds, in Shepard's shoes all he knows is that the Reapers are coming / they know pretty much everything about every species and they have superior weaponry / defenses while we don't know anything about them (and our forces are scattered already, more so if you're a renegade).

Research into how creating a Reaper, using Collector technology (the greatest technology in the galaxy apparently, since it's the top-of-the-line Reaper tech) we'd be able to prepare ourselves. The technology itself is a great enough advantage, being able to know how to destroy a Reaper and know it's structural weaknesses will be even more of an advantage.

Unless you metagame the decision (knowing fully well that in ME3, no matter what you do in previous games, you'll be able to stop the Reapers) the destruction of the base isn't very logical, regardless of your beliefs with Cerberus. My Shepard won't let his distrust of Cerberus be the destruction of the galaxy.

Even my Paragon keeps the base because he doesn't want to see the galaxy explode.

You still cant be sure what happens if you keep the base though. Even without metagaming there are as many reasons pro/con for the base descion as there was for the council descion in ME1. You can belive that Cerberus will screw it up or the Reapers can gain it back just as much as you can seem to believe that keeping it is going to result in an victory. At this point there is no stronger side, simply two different sides.

[Sidac]

smudboy wrote...

1. Cerberus brought Shepard back from the dead to fight the Collectors/Reapers. and some unknown reasons beyond the plot.
2. Cerberus made Shepard a brand new top of the line ship.
3. Cerberus is the only group doing anything about the threat.
So you want to leave the only group that believes you 100%, puts their complete trust in you, gave you a second chance at life, a new ship, a new crew, a few new upgrades, all because you don't like the way TIM talks ot you, or somesuch.

Pretty much the exact reason I save the base. They are the only ones willing to take risks. Yes, sometimes they go bad but where would humanity be if they didn't take those risks whether there was a success or failure? Did they learn from it? if yes id say its still a lesseon to hold onto. Ill stick with those that are doing something rather than sitting with their thumbs up their arse! *cough* council and alliance *cough* This might explain why i chose the more tactical approch instead of ethical and let the council die in ME1.

ps. TIM rocks! I dunno how people hate him! ME3 would rock TIM and Anderson joined forces. Though that wont happen

Modifié par Sidac, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[Xilizhra]

Shandepared wrote...

Keeping the base offers the possibility of an advantage against the Reapers, destroying the base offers nothing.

It weakens Cerberus, a polarizing and destabilizing blight on galactic society. It served its purpose against the Collectors; they are of no further use to me or to the galaxy. They would just confuse the defense against the Reapers.

I'm curious, though; how would you implement this alien organization thing? And what choice would you make if you were in that situation?

[PWENER]

Smudboy has been right in every post he has made, we need to be working with Cerberus instead of antagonizing them.

Paragons put too much hope in the council and Alliance waking up. We don't have the time to wait around until they pull they're heads out of they're cloacas. I have Cerberus, the Krogan, Rachni, Quarians and the Geth behind me. By the time the Reapers show up, my armies will be ready and then the council will acknowlege they exist.

Modifié par PWENER, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[Xilizhra]

1. Cerberus brought Shepard back from the dead to fight the Collectors/Reapers. and some unknown reasons beyond the plot.

2. Cerberus made Shepard a brand new top of the line ship.

3. Cerberus is the only group doing anything about the threat.

So you want to leave the only group that believes you 100%, puts their complete trust in you, gave you a second chance at life, a new ship, a new crew, a few new upgrades, all because you don't like the way TIM talks ot you, or somesuch.

Indeed. I have a life, a ship, a crew that's loyal to me... Cerberus can't give me much more that's worth the risk of keeping the base. As I said, they've served their purpose.

[Iakus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

You don't know what the future holds, in Shepard's shoes all he knows is that the Reapers are coming / they know pretty much everything about every species and they have superior weaponry / defenses while we don't know anything about them (and our forces are scattered already, more so if you're a renegade).

Research into how creating a Reaper, using Collector technology (the greatest technology in the galaxy apparently, since it's the top-of-the-line Reaper tech) we'd be able to prepare ourselves. The technology itself is a great enough advantage, being able to know how to destroy a Reaper and know it's structural weaknesses will be even more of an advantage.

Unless you metagame the decision (knowing fully well that in ME3, no matter what you do in previous games, you'll be able to stop the Reapers) the destruction of the base isn't very logical, regardless of your beliefs with Cerberus. My Shepard won't let his distrust of Cerberus be the destruction of the galaxy.

Even my Paragon keeps the base because he doesn't want to see the galaxy explode.

If TIM could be trusted to just use the base to find weaknesses in the Reapers, and their technology that would be one thing.  But you know that before long, there'd be black and gold husks and Cerbereapers flying around .  The only question would be before or after the "real" Reapers arrived.

Handing the base over to TIM strikes me as living out the fable about the scorpion and the frog

[PWENER]

Xilizhra wrote...

1. Cerberus brought Shepard back from the dead to fight the Collectors/Reapers. and some unknown reasons beyond the plot.
2. Cerberus made Shepard a brand new top of the line ship.
3. Cerberus is the only group doing anything about the threat.
So you want to leave the only group that believes you 100%, puts their complete trust in you, gave you a second chance at life, a new ship, a new crew, a few new upgrades, all because you don't like the way TIM talks ot you, or somesuch.

Indeed. I have a life, a ship, a crew that's loyal to me... Cerberus can't give me much more that's worth the risk of keeping the base. As I said, they've served their purpose.

And this is the kind of mentality that will save a galaxy? I don't think so.

[Xilizhra]

And this is the kind of mentality that will save a galaxy? I don't think so.

I owe Cerberus squat. They gave me all of that so I would stop the Collectors. I did. Mission accomplished, deal fulfilled on both sides. TIM tried to make a new deal... I didn't think it was acceptable, so I declined.

[PWENER]

Xilizhra wrote...

And this is the kind of mentality that will save a galaxy? I don't think so.

I owe Cerberus squat. They gave me all of that so I would stop the Collectors. I did. Mission accomplished, deal fulfilled on both sides. TIM tried to make a new deal... I didn't think it was acceptable, so I declined.

Right now your in a dark corner with no one to go. Those people that think they're there own side are the most idiotic bunch of naive suckers out there. Staying with Cerberus is the right call. Pissing them off just because you don't like TIM (that's the only reason, admit it) is by far the worst choice you can make. We already have enough enemies without naive Shepards adding to the list. Let alone an organization that provides you with money, resources, food and everything else a ship needs to run smoothly.

[Lord Jaric]

PWENER wrote...

You mean the ones that have been corroding for millions of years? Riiiiiight (sarcasm).

You do realise that these ships are in the cold depths of space, and not on a planet or moon with an atmospher,right.

I agree with Giggles_Manicall nether side is right or wrong, we can't possible know the outcome of the decision until ME 3

[PWENER]

Shandepared wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm curious, though; how would you implement this alien organization thing? And what choice would you make if you were in that situation?

As for the choice, I'm not certain what I'd do. I'm leaning towards keeping it, but it depends on what my core goals are. Is it really just about stopping the Reapers, or is a human dominated galaxy of equal importance to me? 

That's exactly the kind of thing Im talking about. Man Im surprised how BW made Cerberus so well. In ME1 I was totally nailed in the idea to destroy them, but now I want them to rule the galaxy. A real mind bender.