585 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

I know, but Cerberus isn't dumb and neither is TIM. Keeping the base is the sure way of having an advantage over the Reapers. Dstroying gets you nothing other than a new enemy (and God knows we don't need another one of those).

Like I said, it's a polarizing and potentially destabilizing influence. Galactic unity is more important, I think, than a few technological advantages.

But without said technology, we risk losing against the Reapers and no amount of Galatic unity will save us then.

[PWENER]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Barquiel wrote...


Paragon Shep doesn't return empty-handed. EDI scanned the base's database and received all the available data on the reapers (the datapad Joker gives you in the end).

Then why did TIM want to keep the base?

To study Reaper conception, likely. It is the difference between having the blueprints to a gun, and actually holding and examining a gun.

BINGO. The Collector base is just too much to pass up, no metter who acquires it. Plus, human dominance doesn't sound too bad either.

[Xilizhra]

When you balance it, "mass extinction" weights more than your "galactic unity". And why the hell would I want unity when every other race dislikes Humanity? Without the base (human dominance) we're still looked down upon, even after saving the Citadel.



Do you think the Turian goverment would destroy the base? NO. The Asari? meabye. The Salarians? NO.

But without said technology, we risk losing against the Reapers and no amount of Galatic unity will save us then.

You misunderstand. I believe that galactic unity is our single most important asset against the Reapers. The entire cycle depends upon disunity; they come out of the Citadel and kill the galaxy's leaders, severing the relay network. We've taken away an enormous advantage of theirs, and we must push it as hard as possible, even if it means sacrificing immediate technology caches (and EDI copied the important stuff anyway).

Plus, I don't care about human social status. My playthrough has humanity being heavily respected by many of the other races after saving the Council anyway.

[Iakus]

PWENER wrote...

Whatever happens after the Reaper war happens. But at least mass extinction won't be one of those things.

Unless Cerberus ends up replacing the Reapers after defeating them.  Then nothing's really changed.

[PWENER]

Xilizhra wrote...

When you balance it, "mass extinction" weights more than your "galactic unity". And why the hell would I want unity when every other race dislikes Humanity? Without the base (human dominance) we're still looked down upon, even after saving the Citadel.

Do you think the Turian goverment would destroy the base? NO. The Asari? meabye. The Salarians? NO.

But without said technology, we risk losing against the Reapers and no amount of Galatic unity will save us then.

You misunderstand. I believe that galactic unity is our single most important asset against the Reapers. The entire cycle depends upon disunity; they come out of the Citadel and kill the galaxy's leaders, severing the relay network. We've taken away an enormous advantage of theirs, and we must push it as hard as possible, even if it means sacrificing immediate technology caches (and EDI copied the important stuff anyway).
Plus, I don't care about human social status. My playthrough has humanity being heavily respected by many of the other races after saving the Council anyway.

Still, the other races won't know about the Collector base (and probably never will) or TIM's plan for Human dominace (also unlikely to occur) until the Reapers are dealt with. Until then, the galactic unity thing is still possible. It will just become double-cross when Humanity starts cleaning house at the end of ME3.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...


You misunderstand. I believe that galactic unity is our single most important asset against the Reapers. The entire cycle depends upon disunity; they come out of the Citadel and kill the galaxy's leaders, severing the relay network. We've taken away an enormous advantage of theirs, and we must push it as hard as possible, even if it means sacrificing immediate technology caches (and EDI copied the important stuff anyway).

Just curious though, how would Cerberus recieving the base break the unity? My Paragon has made humanity respected and everybody is hugging each other, though Cerberus has the base and promised to help take down the Reapers. TIM isn't enough of a moron that he'll wipe out / attack the Turians and such when the Reapers are present, he knows how much of a treat they pose (unlike say... the Council).

The only issue that my playthrough has is for when the Reapers are stopped and Cerberus casts it's gaze at the alien species, maybe then they unity would be challenged but at least by then the Reapers will be dead and gone with Shepard being able to hunt TIM should he go off the straight and narrow. My Shepard even told TIM that he'd hunt TIM if he got greedy for power.

[PWENER]

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Whatever happens after the Reaper war happens. But at least mass extinction won't be one of those things.

Unless Cerberus ends up replacing the Reapers after defeating them.  Then nothing's really changed.

Reaper want: Mass extinction

Cerberus wants: Human dominace

There cannot be Human dominace if there are no other races in the galaxy except Humans.

[Dave of Canada]

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Whatever happens after the Reaper war happens. But at least mass extinction won't be one of those things.

Unless Cerberus ends up replacing the Reapers after defeating them.  Then nothing's really changed.

You give Cerberus too much credit. They were essentially all but destroyed in the recent novel and even before then they would never be capable of getting the bajillions of people needed to make a Reaper without catching a little attention.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[The Big Nothing]

Nietzsche once said, "He who fights monster must take care, lest he thereby become one."

I believe it means that if we use the same methods as our enemies, then we haven't opposed them, we've become them.

We don't know much about the Reapers, but what we do know is that they are the greatest threat the galaxy has ever known, and people are saving a factory that creates the very things we are fighting against.
If there is anything to be taken from the Mass Effect series, it is that we must advance on our own, innovations gained from our successes and failures.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 12 septembre 2010 - 09:55 .

[PWENER]

Dave of Canada wrote...

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Whatever happens after the Reaper war happens. But at least mass extinction won't be one of those things.

Unless Cerberus ends up replacing the Reapers after defeating them.  Then nothing's really changed.

You give Cerberus too much credit. They were essentially all but destroyed in the recent novel and even before then they would never be capable of getting the bajillions of people needed to make a Reaper without catching a little attention.

Also, why would they build a Reaper? The collector base's weponry and technology is enough.

[PWENER]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Nietzsche once said, "He who fights monster must take care, lest he thereby become one."

I believe it means that if we use the same methods as our enemies, then we haven't opposed them, we've become them.

We become gigantic machine gods of destruction who feed off dark energy (my theory on the topic) and devour galactic civilizations every 50,000 to 100,000 years? I don't think so. The true meaning of that phrase is that you essentially change and pursue your enemies with the same mentality that they have. You don't become the enemy or join them.

[Dave of Canada]

The Big Nothing wrote...

People are saving a factory that creates the very things we are fighting against.
If there is anything to be taken from the Mass Effect series, it is that we must advance on our own, innovations gained from our failures and successes.

All current human technology is based off Reaper tech.

As is all Asari / Turian and such.

Most stuff you used to destroy the Collector Base? Reaper tech. Thannix Cannnon, EDI and such.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2010 - 09:55 .

[shnizzler93]

I believe the Reapers will end because of something similar to a virus. To be practical, it would be boring to have to hop between, say, five or six "main" Reapers in ME3 while having the Flotilla, etc blast at the dozens/ hundreds of others.



This also brings up the question in my mind of DLC for ME3. All of the DLC so far has been about combat in one form or another, so after we defeat the Reapers, who do we have left to fight?

[PWENER]

Shandepared wrote...

How is Wrex uniting the krogan at all an asset? The krogan don't have a navy and without a navy they can't send their troops anywhere. In any case the Reaper war looks like it's going to primarily be a fight in space against ships so we really don't need good ground troops. The quarians/geth are far more valuable than the krogan.

The Quarian flotilla? As what? Giant flying missiles? They're ships suck. Only about 20% of them have any kind of weaponry or defenses.

[upsettingshorts]

Guys, um - we're going to win Mass Effect 3. It's going to happen.



The choice to keep or destroy the base is about the post-war power structure. At least that's my theory.

[PWENER]

shnizzler93 wrote...

This also brings up the question in my mind of DLC for ME3. All of the DLC so far has been about combat in one form or another, so after we defeat the Reapers, who do we have left to fight?

The Batarians. Danm ****s are asking to get they're planet nuked.

[Xilizhra]

Just curious though, how would Cerberus recieving the base break the unity? My Paragon has made humanity respected and everybody is hugging each other, though Cerberus has the base and promised to help take down the Reapers. TIM isn't enough of a moron that he'll wipe out / attack the Turians and such when the Reapers are present, he knows how much of a treat they pose (unlike say... the Council).



The only issue that my playthrough has is for when the Reapers are stopped and Cerberus casts it's gaze at the alien species, maybe then they unity would be challenged but at least by then the Reapers will be dead and gone with Shepard being able to hunt TIM should he go off the straight and narrow. My Shepard even told TIM that he'd hunt TIM if he got greedy for power.

Quite frankly, I don't think that TIM is entirely stable. It takes a mind that's at least fanatical to start Cerberus in the first place. It's true, he's put himself under very tight control for now, but... people can change when they actually have what they wanted all along. Think back to Palpatine from Star Wars, and how he went from a very canny, clever and calm manipulator on his way up, to a cackling lunatic obsessed with overbuilt superweapons.

[PWENER]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Guys, um - we're going to win Mass Effect 3. It's going to happen.

The choice to keep or destroy the base is about the post-war power structure. At least that's my theory.

Hey look, someone actually understood the opening post. I had given up on it already. 

[Kaiser Shepard]

PWENER wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...

This also brings up the question in my mind of DLC for ME3. All of the DLC so far has been about combat in one form or another, so after we defeat the Reapers, who do we have left to fight?

The Batarians. Danm ****s are asking to get they're planet nuked.

What about ourselves?

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Guys, um - we're going to win Mass Effect 3. It's going to happen.

That's metagaming though. If you were to go into Shepard's eyes, he doesn't know the future is certain either way.

[jbblue05]

shnizzler93 wrote...

I believe the Reapers will end because of something similar to a virus. To be practical, it would be boring to have to hop between, say, five or six "main" Reapers in ME3 while having the Flotilla, etc blast at the dozens/ hundreds of others.

This also brings up the question in my mind of DLC for ME3. All of the DLC so far has been about combat in one form or another, so after we defeat the Reapers, who do we have left to fight?

Batarians, mercs, slavers 
Its a HUGE galaxy something is bound to happen.

If you killed the Original Council  their is some Turian agression that might lead to a war..

[PWENER]

Xilizhra wrote...

Just curious though, how would Cerberus recieving the base break the unity? My Paragon has made humanity respected and everybody is hugging each other, though Cerberus has the base and promised to help take down the Reapers. TIM isn't enough of a moron that he'll wipe out / attack the Turians and such when the Reapers are present, he knows how much of a treat they pose (unlike say... the Council).

The only issue that my playthrough has is for when the Reapers are stopped and Cerberus casts it's gaze at the alien species, maybe then they unity would be challenged but at least by then the Reapers will be dead and gone with Shepard being able to hunt TIM should he go off the straight and narrow. My Shepard even told TIM that he'd hunt TIM if he got greedy for power.

Quite frankly, I don't think that TIM is entirely stable. It takes a mind that's at least fanatical to start Cerberus in the first place. It's true, he's put himself under very tight control for now, but... people can change when they actually have what they wanted all along. Think back to Palpatine from Star Wars, and how he went from a very canny, clever and calm manipulator on his way up, to a cackling lunatic obsessed with overbuilt superweapons.

Sidious was always like that, he was just faking all along (Palpatine was his cover, an alter ego to say the least).

[PWENER]

Shandepared wrote...

PWENER wrote...

The Quarian flotilla? As what? Giant flying missiles? They're ships suck. Only about 20% of them have any kind of weaponry or defenses.

You don't know anything about their ships. TIM seems to think their forces will be needed during the war, and I trust his judgement more than I do yours.

What!? Tali says so herself. Those ships are practically held together with ducktape. Also, 20% isn't that much.