585 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Guys, um - we're going to win Mass Effect 3. It's going to happen.

That's metagaming though. If you were to go into Shepard's eyes, he doesn't know the future is certain either way.

...I would give the base to the council, but this option isn't available in ME2^_^

[PWENER]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

PWENER wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...

This also brings up the question in my mind of DLC for ME3. All of the DLC so far has been about combat in one form or another, so after we defeat the Reapers, who do we have left to fight?

The Batarians. Danm ****s are asking to get they're planet nuked.

What about ourselves?

Ourselves? I don't get it.

[Iakus]

PWENER wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Whatever happens after the Reaper war happens. But at least mass extinction won't be one of those things.

Unless Cerberus ends up replacing the Reapers after defeating them.  Then nothing's really changed.

You give Cerberus too much credit. They were essentially all but destroyed in the recent novel and even before then they would never be capable of getting the bajillions of people needed to make a Reaper without catching a little attention.

Also, why would they build a Reaper? The collector base's weponry and technology is enough.

I haven't read the novel, can't comment on that.

What weaponry was at the base?  a trashed cruiser and a few of those Oculus thingees?  There's already technology out there that can beat those (as the Normandy showed)

Getting people to jump into the smoothie machine?  Well, they can lie, play on the fears of the populace once the Reapers become general knowledge.  If necessary, perhaps indoctrination if they can crack that nut.  I can easily see TIM sacrificing a few million people for a chance to face the Reapers on even terms. 

In fact, who's to say Cerberus wouldn't try to make Reapers out of other species if TIM thought he could control them?  Anyone think he'd be crazy enough to try that?

[smudboy]

iakus wrote...

Okay you got me with the rachni.  I'd agrue that the creepers are alien tech, just biotech.  Husks are definitely tech (Dragon's Teeth), geth...are a grey area...but I'll put them in the tech category since they are synthetics.

And Cerberus failed with them how?

Please specify doubletalk.  I'm just pointing out that A) Harbringer can remote control Collectors presumably using Reaper tech There's little reason to think he couldn't play around with other tech at the base, including laying traps for people trying to study it.  TIM may very well find his Cerberus teams having fatal "accidents" or ending up getting indoctrinated or huskified. 

A) All Collectors are dead.
OH NOES TEH (possible) TRAPS

Here's a word Cerberus is very well acquainted with: risk.
Here's a phrase which should change your mind (but it won't): Cycle of Destruction.

It is not (to me) an unreasonable assumption that Harbringer could turn the Collector Base into his very own version of Home Alone to keep himself occupied while on cruise control to the Milky Way.

"Releasing Control."

You did skip over the whole "terrorist organization that's not above kidnapping, bribery, murder, and unethical medical experiments for fun & profit" 

Face it: you're a wimp.  Wah.  I can't uze teh Reaper Tech's to Fights teh BADGUIZ.

It doesn't matter if they're good/bad, right/wrong, here or there.  They're on your side.  They're going to keep doing so.  You need everyone's help.  Or else everything and everyone DIES.

Forever.

Again.

David: "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP."

Like I said, it's a frustrating but true fact that Cerberus is the only organization that hasn't sufferd brain damage in the last two years concerning the Reaper threat.  However, their reputation belies any "kinder, gentler" talk TIM or Miranda may try to convey.  Best case:  TIM is incompetant.  Worst case, an absolute sociopath.  The simple fact is, a paragon Shepard is unlikely to believe the galaxy would be any better off if the Reapers won, or Cerberus.  Because it would not be the Alliance that won, or the Council, or any other government or organization.  It would be Cerberus.

Cerberus got a retcon, or an exposition, or whatever.  Frankly it doesn't really matter what group helped Shepard out in ME2: the fact is you've got a base THAT MAKES F*CKING REAPERS.  You research the crap out of it.

Because it makes f*cking Reapers.

Did I mention it makes your enemy?  Yeah, that enemy that's going to KILL EVERYTHING FOREVER, AGAIN?  Remember those Prothean visions? Remember how Shepard is the guy who's going to save us all, because he/she knows what's going?

DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO STOP THE REAPERS.

Or don't. Cause you know: "It's a trap."

Or something about a "soul" being "sacrificed" for "humanity" or "something."  Bluh.

Sure, any serious defenses and the Normandy would have been just another wreck in the pile.

We can't have that.  We've got a ground team to magically infiltrate a massive space station.

For one thing, the Reaper IFF mission shows even "dead" Reaper tech can still indoctrinate/huskify people.  Also:

That's a dead Reaper.  If the IFF is "dead" Reaper tech, why aren't we all indoctrinated yet?  Why isn't EDI trying to husk us up?  How come Mr. Thanix isn't ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL of our ass?  Maybe that's why Garrus must calibrate the sh+t out of it?  Maybe that cybernetic impant of his already has him under Reaper control!

UNC: Missing Survey Team: Exo Geni team finds Reaper tech and wackiness ensues.
UNC: Colony of the Dead is another example of Husks Gone Wild thanks to Cerberus research.

You gotta treat Reaper technology like it's Cthulhu:  just cause it's dead doesn't mean it can't still kill you horribly.

Be sure to write that in the memo.

Cerberus chose the wrong colors for their uniforms.  Instead of black, white, and gold, they should just have solid red shirts

Little bloody noses = results.

Yes you agree, yes it's a valid hypothosis, or a Sten-yes?

Yes.

[PWENER]

Barquiel wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Guys, um - we're going to win Mass Effect 3. It's going to happen.

That's metagaming though. If you were to go into Shepard's eyes, he doesn't know the future is certain either way.

...I would give the base to the council, but this option isn't available in ME2^_^

You mean the loser bunch who wanted to study the Thorian (who Cerberus would have destroyed too). I trust the base in the hands of Cerberus than the idiotic council who can't even differentiate Geth tech from a Reaper's.

Modifié par PWENER, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[shnizzler93]

Shandepared wrote...

PWENER wrote...

What!? Tali says so herself. Those ships are practically held together with ducktape. Also, 20% isn't that much.

That says nothing about their weaponry. If the flotilla sucked that badly it wouldn't be able to defend itself. Secondly, TIM feels they'll be needed.

Never read Ascension, but the Quarians did manage to hide Grayson's daughter from TIM and the Reapers I believe, so their technology will be useful

[The Big Nothing]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

People are saving a factory that creates the very things we are fighting against.
If there is anything to be taken from the Mass Effect series, it is that we must advance on our own, innovations gained from our failures and successes.

All current human technology is based off Reaper tech.

As is all Asari / Turian and such.

Most stuff you used to destroy the Collector Base? Reaper tech. Thannix Cannnon, EDI and such.

This is true, and this is also why galactic life has been annihilated every 50,000 years. Instead of advancing along our own paths of technological evolution, we've been relying on a mysterious alien technology that is essentially a trap.
If you see a ledge that is out of reach and someone hands you a ladder, you no longer have reason to think of a means to overcome that obstacle, and you fail to learn from that experience.
If we are deprived the opportunity to solve our larger problems, by which we would grow as a species, we stagnate; culture stagnates.

The only reason this span of 50,000 years is different from previous ones is because the protheans warned us as they were made extinct and sabotaged the remote Citadel Relay activation. 

Our solution may be no better than what has already been conceived, but at least it was legitimately achieved. Evolution is what makes us formidable.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:14 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

PWENER wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

PWENER wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...

This also brings up the question in my mind of DLC for ME3. All of the DLC so far has been about combat in one form or another, so after we defeat the Reapers, who do we have left to fight?

The Batarians. Danm ****s are asking to get they're planet nuked.

What about ourselves?

Ourselves? I don't get it.

Humanity has been fighting itself since... well, ever! No need to stop after destroying a few thousand sentient ark-ships.

[PWENER]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

PWENER wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...

This also brings up the question in my mind of DLC for ME3. All of the DLC so far has been about combat in one form or another, so after we defeat the Reapers, who do we have left to fight?

The Batarians. Danm ****s are asking to get they're planet nuked.

What about ourselves?

Ourselves? I don't get it.

Humanity has been fighting itself since... well, ever! No need to stop after destroying a few thousand sentient ark-ships.

Oh. So what your saying is that we'll fight Humanity in ME4?......... That's dumb.

[Iakus]

PWENER wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Nietzsche once said, "He who fights monster must take care, lest he thereby become one."

I believe it means that if we use the same methods as our enemies, then we haven't opposed them, we've become them.

We become gigantic machine gods of destruction who feed off dark energy (my theory on the topic) and devour galactic civilizations every 50,000 to 100,000 years? I don't think so. The true meaning of that phrase is that you essentially change and pursue your enemies with the same mentality that they have. You don't become the enemy or join them.

Amusingly, this entire discussion seems to be about Samuel Johnson's quote:

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful.”

Destroying the base is integrity without knowledge.  Keeping the base is knowledge without integrity.

[Xilizhra]

Sidious was always like that, he was just faking all along (Palpatine was his cover, an alter ego to say the least).

How much do we really know about TIM's true self? His control certainly seems to be cracking hear the end, what with "Cerberus is humanity!" and all.

[PWENER]

Blasto the jelly wrote...

Ah Yes "REAPERS"

We have dismissed those claims.

[Lord Jaric]

PWENER wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
]

Humanity has been fighting itself since... well, ever! No need to stop after destroying a few thousand sentient ark-ships.

Oh. So what your saying is that we'll fight Humanity in ME4?......... That's dumb.

*facepalm* you completely miss read what they said.

Modifié par Lord Jaric, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Dave of Canada]

The Big Nothing wrote...

This is true, and this is also why galactic life has been annihilated every 50,000 years. Instead of advancing along our own paths of technological evolution, we rely on a mysterious technology that is essentially a trap.

But without said technology, humanity would still be trapped on Earth and would be wiped out before even knowing what the Asari / Turians and such are. The Reaper tech is a double-edged sword, it advances you the way they want you to be before being harvested but makes you more capable and stronger in the process, the entire galaxy is built upon Reaper tech. The Collector Base is something that the Reapers never wanted organics to have, you're getting technology far too advanced than they ever expected.

You lose out on human-made tech, yes. Yet you've advanced a lot further tech-wise than any other species that has ever confronted the Reapers. Personally? I'd rather grab the ladder and be carried up rather than fall because I'm too stubborn to grab it.

The only reason this span of 50,000 years is different from previous ones is because the protheans warned us as they were made extinct and sabotaged the remote Citadel Relay activation. 

I do believe the cycle has always been 50,000 years and the Reapers don't / didn't know about Prothean meddeling.

[PWENER]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sidious was always like that, he was just faking all along (Palpatine was his cover, an alter ego to say the least).

How much do we really know about TIM's true self? His control certainly seems to be cracking hear the end, what with "Cerberus is humanity!" and all.

Ultimatly, he wants to destroy the Reapers, and that's good enough for me.

[upsettingshorts]

iakus wrote...
Amusingly, this entire discussion seems to be about Samuel Johnson's quote:

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful.”

Destroying the base is integrity without knowledge.  Keeping the base is knowledge without integrity.

Great quote from the man who wrote the dictionary.

And I think you're right - that is what the decision to keep or destroy the base is about.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

Sidious was always like that, he was just faking all along (Palpatine was his cover, an alter ego to say the least).

How much do we really know about TIM's true self? His control certainly seems to be cracking hear the end, what with "Cerberus is humanity!" and all.

TIM has always been in control though, he probably didn't even know about the Collector Base until much later in his stop-the-reapers plan and were I in his shoes, I too would be pissed off because some guy decided to blow up the biggest advantage ever because he felt like it. He wants the Reapers stopped as his number one goal, that's good enough for me.

If the galaxy falls apart into a war afterwards, at least there IS a galaxy to war with each other.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[The Big Nothing]

iakus wrote...

PWENER wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Nietzsche once said, "He who fights monster must take care, lest he thereby become one."

I believe it means that if we use the same methods as our enemies, then we haven't opposed them, we've become them.

We become gigantic machine gods of destruction who feed off dark energy (my theory on the topic) and devour galactic civilizations every 50,000 to 100,000 years? I don't think so. The true meaning of that phrase is that you essentially change and pursue your enemies with the same mentality that they have. You don't become the enemy or join them.

Amusingly, this entire discussion seems to be about Samuel Johnson's quote:

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful.”

Destroying the base is integrity without knowledge.  Keeping the base is knowledge without integrity.

We have knowledge, though. We know that Reaper technology is what made us and every civilization before us vulnerable to extinction in the first place. To advance along the path that they have established is what the Reapers want. They understand their own technology; they know the weaknesses and strengths of their technology. Innovation is the real super-weapon here.
 

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 12 septembre 2010 - 10:25 .

[Lord Jaric]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

iakus wrote...
Amusingly, this entire discussion seems to be about Samuel Johnson's quote:

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful.”

Destroying the base is integrity without knowledge.  Keeping the base is knowledge without integrity.

Great quote from the man who wrote the dictionary.

And I think you're right - that is what the decision to keep or destroy the base is about.

To bad most people want to think what they did was the best and the others are stupid.

[PWENER]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

This is true, and this is also why galactic life has been annihilated every 50,000 years. Instead of advancing along our own paths of technological evolution, we rely on a mysterious technology that is essentially a trap.

But without said technology, humanity would still be trapped on Earth and would be wiped out before even knowing what the Asari / Turians and such are. The Reaper tech is a double-edged sword, it advances you the way they want you to be before being harvested but makes you more capable and stronger in the process, the entire galaxy is built upon Reaper tech. The Collector Base is something that the Reapers never wanted organics to have, you're getting technology far too advanced than they ever expected.

You lose out on human-made tech, yes. Yet you've advanced a lot further tech-wise than any other species that has ever confronted the Reapers. Personally? I'd rather grab the ladder and be carried up rather than fall because I'm too stubborn to grab it.

The only reason this span of 50,000 years is different from previous ones is because the protheans warned us as they were made extinct and sabotaged the remote Citadel Relay activation. 

I do believe the cycle has always been 50,000 years and the Reapers don't / didn't know about Prothean meddeling.

Yet the base will only be used for Human dominace and nothing more. It's up to other factors on wethever we'll win the war or end up like all races before us.

[Xilizhra]

TIM has always been in control though, he probably didn't even know about the Collector Base until much later in his stop-the-reapers plan and were I in his shoes, I too would be pissed off because some guy decided to blow up the biggest advantage ever because he felt like it. He wants the Reapers stopped as his number one goal, that's good enough for me.

That wasn't the vibe I got. Personally, I think that TIM believes in the Reapers but also believes that they're an irrelevant concern for now, being trapped in dark space. I don't think he sees any urgency in the coming war, and that all of his talk about stopping the Reapers was him using Shepard for his true purpose; he wants the power of the Reapers to build his own empire of humanity alone.

[The Big Nothing]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

This is true, and this is also why galactic life has been annihilated every 50,000 years. Instead of advancing along our own paths of technological evolution, we rely on a mysterious technology that is essentially a trap.

But without said technology, humanity would still be trapped on Earth and would be wiped out before even knowing what the Asari / Turians and such are. The Reaper tech is a double-edged sword, it advances you the way they want you to be before being harvested but makes you more capable and stronger in the process, the entire galaxy is built upon Reaper tech. The Collector Base is something that the Reapers never wanted organics to have, you're getting technology far too advanced than they ever expected.

You lose out on human-made tech, yes. Yet you've advanced a lot further tech-wise than any other species that has ever confronted the Reapers. Personally? I'd rather grab the ladder and be carried up rather than fall because I'm too stubborn to grab it.

The only reason this span of 50,000 years is different from previous ones is because the protheans warned us as they were made extinct and sabotaged the remote Citadel Relay activation. 

I do believe the cycle has always been 50,000 years and the Reapers don't / didn't know about Prothean meddeling.

This is true. Both sides do have merit. It is a debate bigger than Mass Effect, haha.

I'm excited to see how it all pans out in the Mass Effect 3. I think one side is going to be very sorry about the choices they made.