104 réponses à ce sujet

[Taleroth]

shazzmoe wrote...
 This would be fairly easy to implement because bioware would have little to do besides reimplement dedicated servers.

WHAT?!  Dedicated servers and networking is neither little nor easy.

I've worked in QA on a retail shipped video game.  Almost half our QA department were doing some variation on networking testing.  There were full-time programmers on it for months.  And we were making a console game.  That was peer to peer, we didn't even have dedicated servers.

Modifié par Taleroth, 11 novembre 2009 - 05:49 .

[Tesslyn]

I just want "NWN 3" thats like NWN 1 with Dragon Age Graphics and possibly with the OC being Dragon Age as well. (Yes I realize it wouldn't actually be 'neverwinter nights' in this case.)

[Tesslyn]

I just want "NWN 3" thats like NWN 1 with Dragon Age Graphics and possibly with the OC being Dragon Age as well. (Yes I realize it wouldn't actually be 'neverwinter nights' in this case.)

[babyjaws]

Oliver Sudden wrote...

babyjaws wrote...

p.s ...a lot of the people that object to MP are being pretty selfish.
this could be a good game for everyone, leaving the 'precious' single player campaign completely intact.

I'm sorry. Could you try rephrasing that with even more inflammatory, insulting language? I'm not sure you managed to sound like enough of a jerk.

Ok, sorry let me explain,
the people wanting to be able to make their own multiplayer modules and persistent worlds arent going to take anything away from the single player campaign experience, so why do people have to object so strongly to it?
the single player fans are saying NO! you cant have that it will ruin our game!, but thats simply not true and not really what most people are asking for.
and calling someone a jerk is a lot more inflammatory BTW but anyway Im not bothered

[Trelow-LMG]

babyjaws wrote...

Oliver Sudden wrote...

babyjaws wrote...

p.s ...a lot of the people that object to MP are being pretty selfish.
this could be a good game for everyone, leaving the 'precious' single player campaign completely intact.

I'm sorry. Could you try rephrasing that with even more inflammatory, insulting language? I'm not sure you managed to sound like enough of a jerk.

Ok, sorry let me explain,
the people wanting to be able to make their own multiplayer modules and persistent worlds arent going to take anything away from the single player campaign experience, so why do people have to object so strongly to it?
the single player fans are saying NO! you cant have that it will ruin our game!, but thats simply not true and not really what most people are asking for.
and calling someone a jerk is a lot more inflammatory BTW but anyway Im not bothered

It wasn't an arbatrary decision on BioWare's part.

Why do you not include more cowbell in the music you compose?

[babyjaws]

Why do you not include more cowbell in the music you compose?

LOL.....errr, its not the most subtle percussion instrument, works well to accent a groove or make a groovy polyrhythm.
actually I do use cowbell when its needed!
I made a whole tune once using an original 808 cowbell which I sampled and mapped across my whole keyboard: the sound of an 808 cowbell three or four octaves lower reminds me of 90's rave

I love the randomness of that question )) 

[dragero]

As much as I would like a multiplayer option for games that builders made with the toolset, I can just imagine the complaints about class imbalance that would ensue. And if Bioware changed things to appease the whiners (speaking only of class imbalance), the game would just be ruined. How many times have we seen this happen?

[Oliver Sudden]

Ok, sorry let me explain,
the people wanting to be able to make their own multiplayer modules and persistent worlds arent going to take anything away from the single player campaign experience, so why do people have to object so strongly to it?
the single player fans are saying NO! you cant have that it will ruin our game!, but thats simply not true and not really what most people are asking for.
and calling someone a jerk is a lot more inflammatory BTW but anyway Im not bothered

Thanks for the rephrasing and your explanation. It  now sounds like something we could discuss. And, to be precise, saying you *sound* like a jerk obviously isn't saying you *are* a jerk, which I don't mean and you've shown you aren't.

I'm not sure that enabling the ability to permit multiplayer, much less implementing it, wouldn't hurt the single player game. For some reason (restraints? effort? resource allotment?), pretty much every game I've played with multiplayer capability has a shallow single player experience. Like I said, I don't know why this is or even if it's necessary, but those games always strike me as little more than a stage upon which games can be built. Instead of being deep and giving the single player a lot to do, they feel to me just like an engine, graphics, and skeleton.

Playing them with others is a blast, but they don't usually feel as much fun to me when I play them alone. YMMV.

Modifié par Oliver Sudden, 11 novembre 2009 - 06:08 .

[PuddinPopp]

babyjaws wrote...

Why do you not include more cowbell in the music you compose?

LOL.....errr, its not the most subtle percussion instrument, works well to accent a groove or make a groovy polyrhythm.
actually I do use cowbell when its needed!
I made a whole tune once using an original 808 cowbell which I sampled and mapped across my whole keyboard: the sound of an 808 cowbell three or four octaves lower reminds me of 90's rave

I love the randomness of that question )) 

His question wasn't random. He's asking why, when you make music, do you not include the glory that is cowbell?  Sure you can make the music normally before hand, but you need to add cowbell after because I personally think music isn't good enough without more cowbell.  It's not that much work to just add an instrument to any music you ever do right? And it won't hurt people who want just the no cowbell music, because they can just listen to the other stuff.

Notice anything?

[spool32]

dragero wrote...

As much as I would like a multiplayer option for games that builders made with the toolset, I can just imagine the complaints about class imbalance that would ensue. And if Bioware changed things to appease the whiners (speaking only of class imbalance), the game would just be ruined. How many times have we seen this happen?

Wouldnt' be a problem... many of the NWN worlds out ther ehave rebuilt the classes, added new ones, extended the spell list... the amount of custom content is staggering.

Balance won't be an issue. We just need the mp engine in place.

[f14dude]

babyjaws wrote...

My idea for co-op Mp is this: (If it was ever considered in the future...DA:O2 perhaps.....

Everyone complains that it wont work
with story because everyone will be waiting while the host reads
through dialogue and makes the choices, well basically, why not make
all players involved with the choices?
there could be a vote on
which dialogue to pick, and if it ties you could roll, then everyone
feels apart of the main players choice and storyline, enabling everyone to enjoy it.
the hosting computers player (the speaker character, the one  involved with the story) is a voice for the whole party.
I think, if the gui is made well and its a speedy enough process, it could work!
something along those lines anyway....

lol... that would take a long time just to get through one dialogue.  What if 1 out of the 4 players decided to vote no to the main player's suggestion and then what?  Recast the vote?  I think it will be take too much time and become a mess in the long run.  Either way, until Bioware can create something in mp where each player can have their own story/campaign to follow thorough but can still group together in coop to finish them.  I don't think it will work well.

[dragero]

spool32 wrote...

Wouldnt' be a problem... many of the NWN worlds out ther ehave rebuilt the classes, added new ones, extended the spell list... the amount of custom content is staggering.

Balance won't be an issue. We just need the mp engine in place.

That's true. I forgot they were able to do that.

[shazzmoe]

Taleroth wrote...

shazzmoe wrote...
 This would be fairly easy to implement because bioware would have little to do besides reimplement dedicated servers.

WHAT?!  Dedicated servers and networking is neither little nor easy.

I've worked in QA on a retail shipped video game.  Almost half our QA department were doing some variation on networking testing.  There were full-time programmers on it for months.  And we were making a console game.  That was peer to peer, we didn't even have dedicated servers.

I would agree with this if they had not yet made a game with multiplayer access.  It would have been worth their time to go back and modify something like their NWN online client to fit this game.  Yes it would take more time but not only would it make the online community happier, it would greatly reduce piracy.  Less people are going to buy the game when single player games have little to no way to prevent downloading of their game.

[Default137]

Are you still trying baby?



Thing is, we have two options.



More DLC, possible Expansions, and a well made Sequel, or CO-OP for DA:O.



It takes alot of hard work, money, and other resources to make a game multi compatible, and would take Biowares entire dev team most likely just to get it all up and running, which would mean the game would be left behind DLC/Expansion wise.



If you REALLY want CO-OP, try and set up a bunch of modders to make the game CO-OP compatible, you'll see what I mean when I say this is a monumental task your asking of Bioware, but hey, if you want it bad enough, maybe you can make us a CO-OP mod, but it will have to be you who made it.



And yes, CO-OP takes from games, it takes MONTHS to make a game CO-OP compatible, even if it was their original intention, this game was in development for 5 years I believe, and thats why its so polished, and so well done, but take the time and think how much might not be there if you removed 5-8 months worth of development, we could have lost a ton of quest chains, party members, items, endings, romance options, choices, all sorts of things could have been lost due to it.

[babyjaws]

PuddinPopp wrote...

babyjaws wrote...

Why do you not include more cowbell in the music you compose?

LOL.....errr, its not the most subtle percussion instrument, works well to accent a groove or make a groovy polyrhythm.
actually I do use cowbell when its needed!
I made a whole tune once using an original 808 cowbell which I sampled and mapped across my whole keyboard: the sound of an 808 cowbell three or four octaves lower reminds me of 90's rave

I love the randomness of that question )) 

His question wasn't random. He's asking why, when you make music, do you not include the glory that is cowbell?  Sure you can make the music normally before hand, but you need to add cowbell after because I personally think music isn't good enough without more cowbell.  It's not that much work to just add an instrument to any music you ever do right? And it won't hurt people who want just the no cowbell music, because they can just listen to the other stuff.

Notice anything?

ok, i see your point now, but still I disagree, and to use the same analogy of cowbells

theres 2 tracks here, one with cowbells (the remix : )
and one without.
same track, different mixes
take your pick
everyone can dance, or whatever you do listening to a great piece of music (playing a game)

and the cowbell (MP) bunch can add a ton more with their toolkit to remix more and dance together

[hannahb]

MrGOH wrote...

I didn't say that I dislike multiplayer. But a multiplayer DA:O would be fundamentally different than the DA:O we got. I think Bioware would be wise to make a multiplayer game in the DA:O setting. But the days of BG-style hacky multiplayer are long over - Bioware will commit to doing it right so that it pleases more than a few fans.

hogwash

[babyjaws]

I would agree with this if they had not yet made a game with multiplayer access.  It would have been worth their time to go back and modify something like their NWN online client to fit this game.  Yes it would take more time but not only would it make the online community happier, it would greatly reduce piracy.  Less people are going to buy the game when single player games have little to no way to prevent downloading of their game.

Totally agree here.
an online validity check, like with NWN DLC, would have done good things to prevent DA:O piracy,
and would really have  worked in their financial favour.
although people do generally moan about the need to be online to play, there would have been a middle ground perhaps of validating it once first online or something along those lines.

[babyjaws]

If you REALLY want CO-OP, try and set up a bunch of modders to make the game CO-OP compatible, you'll see what I mean when I say this is a monumental task your asking of Bioware, but hey, if you want it bad enough, maybe you can make us a CO-OP mod, but it will have to be you who made it.

I SO SO wish I had those skills.....

[babyjaws]

lol... that would take a long time just to get through one dialogue.  What if 1 out of the 4 players decided to vote no to the main player's suggestion and then what?  Recast the vote?  I think it will be take too much time and become a mess in the long run.  Either way, until Bioware can create something in mp where each player can have their own story/campaign to follow thorough but can still group together in coop to finish them.  I don't think it will work well.

no. because thats the whole point on voting, the majority wins and you move on....
there could be different modes of play, like looting systems in MMO's  that you can all agree on before playing, if you dont like the system, pick another server using another mode.

[hannahb]

Default137 wrote...

Are you still trying baby?

Thing is, we have two options.

More DLC, possible Expansions, and a well made Sequel, or CO-OP for DA:O.

It takes alot of hard work, money, and other resources to make a game multi compatible, and would take Biowares entire dev team most likely just to get it all up and running, which would mean the game would be left behind DLC/Expansion wise.

If you REALLY want CO-OP, try and set up a bunch of modders to make the game CO-OP compatible, you'll see what I mean when I say this is a monumental task your asking of Bioware, but hey, if you want it bad enough, maybe you can make us a CO-OP mod, but it will have to be you who made it.

And yes, CO-OP takes from games, it takes MONTHS to make a game CO-OP compatible, even if it was their original intention, this game was in development for 5 years I believe, and thats why its so polished, and so well done, but take the time and think how much might not be there if you removed 5-8 months worth of development, we could have lost a ton of quest chains, party members, items, endings, romance options, choices, all sorts of things could have been lost due to it.

More hogwash.

This game plays like NWN2  .. that's no accident.  Being that I have done a bit of coding in my day I can pretty much tell its just the NWN engine that has been modifed and improved.  They know where to hook into for multi-play if it isnt already there and just disabled.

[hannahb]

and before you start attacking my credibility ... I personally, by hand, modified/customized over 600 placeables for my own nwn campaign... I also wrote my own persistant DB based on ideas from other toolset scripters and a host of other scripts. So I might know a little bit about what it takes to do lan networking code too...

Modifié par hannahb, 11 novembre 2009 - 07:27 .

[babyjaws]

This game plays like NWN2  .. that's no accident.  Being that I have done a bit of coding in my day I can pretty much tell its just the NWN engine that has been modifed and improved.  They know where to hook into for multi-play if it isnt already there and just disabled.

I really hope thats true, if anything they've certainly learnt a lot making the nwn Aurora engine, its pros and cons etc
Heres hoping they take what they've learnt and make an even more (if it was at all at first : ) elegant MP system,
its completely possible..
if not I hope they release an SDK for any network protocols that may be already in place for modders to carry on the work

I cant help thinking its due to marketing strategy and not just man hours and resources IMHO but I dont know.
something inside me tells me it IS around the corner, but timeframe / other products  obscure this for now.
or indeed, they just hit huge technical obstacles during development although Im not convinced of that.
I blame TOR.

[hannahb]

babyjaws wrote...

This game plays like NWN2  .. that's no accident.  Being that I have done a bit of coding in my day I can pretty much tell its just the NWN engine that has been modifed and improved.  They know where to hook into for multi-play if it isnt already there and just disabled.

I really hope thats true, if anything they've certainly learnt a lot making the nwn Aurora engine, its pros and cons etc
Heres hoping they take what they've learnt and make an even more (if it was at all at first : ) elegant MP system,
its completely possible..
if not I hope they release an SDK for any network protocols that may be already in place for modders to carry on the work

I cant help thinking its due to marketing strategy and not just man hours and resources IMHO but I dont know.
something inside me tells me it IS around the corner, but timeframe / other products  obscure this for now.
or indeed, they just hit huge technical obstacles during development although Im not convinced of that.
I blame TOR.

It is marketing strategy that's driving DAO ... their baby is def TOR.  But, consider this .. if you had all the games in development that Bioware does, and its a long list, would you completely rewrite an engine like the one used to make nwn2 or would you modify it since it already works and polish up the functionality and add in things from KOTOR which is almost identical to the cutscene dialog system in DAO?  I know what I would do.

Modifié par hannahb, 11 novembre 2009 - 07:41 .

[Inarai]

Hm.



Anyone here ever played Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1 or 2? Or it's X-Men predecessors? o-op could work precisely the way it does there.

[babyjaws]

hannahb wrote...

It is marketing strategy that's driving DAO ... their baby is def TOR.  But, consider this .. if you had all the games in development that Bioware does, and its a long list, would you completely rewrite an engine like the one used to make nwn2 or would you modify it since it already works and polish up the functionality and add in things from KOTOR which is almost identical to the cutscene dialog system in DAO?  I know what I would do.

I hear you on that.
which leads me to the suspicion the backend is already there for later use
speaking to someone who worked a bit with the aurora engine, people often go on about how almost impossible the task of adding MP is to a game, ironically really as there are bargain basement budget productions out there with mp capability,  what kind of work actually is it? I guess the answer depends on whats there already waiting to be hooked up. I guess from scratch its quite a task, but I just cant beleieve that functionality isnt there at all in this game, it HAS to be looking at all the evidence........