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Inventory - Why scrapping it was a great thing.


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#26
PsyrenY

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I don't think it should have been scrapped entirely, but it was definitely way too clunky in ME1. There's got to be a golden mean between the two.



There isn't enough strategy to ME2's upgrade system. You buy upgrades until you run out of creds, then do missions until you get enough to buy more. Which ones to buy and in what order are a no-brainer unless you're a Soldier, and it isn't even hard for them.

#27
clennon8

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I'm a long time RPG'er, and I'm glad they did away with the inventory system. For one thing, running around every room emptying out every canister and then somehow magically carrying dozens of weapons, hardsuits, etc. around with you was just stupid.

#28
Quething

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I'm okay with losing the inventory in favor of the weapons system we have now; the fact that "Claymore vs Scimitar" is a real choice now is pretty cool.



What I really don't like is the loss of the mechanics that came along with the inventory: swappable ammo mods, different levels of combat endurance for different classes, control over squadmate appearance and defensive properties, choices between damage reduction or biotic resistance or protection against environmental hazards (any of which might become your highest priority as the mission scenarios changed). Even the creation and management of omni-gel, which could and should have been a good, lore-enhancing minor resource management thing (and excellent shortcut when you're sick of that [expletive deleted] paragraph-matching puzzle and its refusal to churn up the symbol you need), rather than being scrapped completely for no real reason.

#29
Elite Midget

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I personally would have liked more weapon and armor choices... The DLC helps to add more but it still feels empty to me. Maybe if they released more preorder stuff than it would make me feel better when customizing my Sheperds look.

#30
adriano_c

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An inventory, as it was, is a waste. It only served to let you carry around an unreasonable (and unrealistic) amount of redundant junk. Was being able to scroll through 8-9 differently coloured pistols of the same sort necessary? Not really. Weapons now actually feel different, plus selecting your repertoire prior to missions just makes more sense (to me, at least). However, I'd like it if they brought back greater armour selection and weapon modification. It could be done along the lines of "collected salvage" at the end of each mission, detailed in the report, and then letting you find the new stuff aboard your ship, wherein you make adjustments in the armoury.

#31
StarcloudSWG

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I still don't get why a "personal inventory system" is a hallmark of an RPG.



I could easily develop an RPG where "inventory" is so tightly limited it might as well not exist. Collecting gear and upgrades is nice, but when it comes at the cost of actually spending time playing the game, it should get dropped. Mass Effect 2 hits that happy medium dead on, in my opinion.


#32
StowyMcStowstow

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kregano wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Seriously, scrapping the inventory was one of the best moves Bioware made in ME2. It's so streamlined, you get a nice weapon selection and unlocks after completing missions, the weapons have different uses in combat and for different classes, all in all, Kudos to Bioware for that.

Epic. Fail. The new inventory is a far cry from great, and even further from being one of BW's best changes in ME2. You have so few weapons, so little armor, and there are no stats to gauge which gun is better than another besides the tiny words saying "this gun upgrades the other one you have." It needs improvement.

The thing about having stats is that it deemphasizes player experimentation. If you just go by stats alone and don't actually try out the individual guns, you might end up with a gun that you hate for some reason but don't get rid of because "It's the best." Having a small selection of guns helps differentiate them by giving BioWare more room to tweak the abilities and behavior of each gun, as well as making each gun more memorable to the player. Tossing in dozens of guns for each type means they start blurring together real fast.


I see what you mean, and that is also why I never got the "this new weapon upgrades the one you had before" line near the bottom of the weapon description. The new Mattock Heavy Rifle is my favorite weapon in the game, and before that I loved the vindicator (I like accuracy), and I also hated the Revenant because if you held the trigger down for more than a second bullets would fly everywhere but your target, and I don't like being that close to by enemies.

What I meant was that instead of simply saying "x upgrades y" they should make either the description more detailed or include some stats, like effective range and whatnot. Actually, that's a pretty good idea...

#33
Throw_this_away

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TheShadowmancer wrote...

No. It was horrible. It took out the sense of progression and replaced it with "Ultimate mining experience," which is so boring that I find it hard to do more playthroughs.


I am struggling to do a third ME1 playthrough (and the second one was a speed run).  Me2 is a far superior game.  

#34
MadCat221

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adriano_c wrote...

An inventory, as it was, is a waste. It only served to let you carry around an unreasonable (and unrealistic) amount of redundant junk. Was being able to scroll through 8-9 differently coloured pistols of the same sort necessary? Not really. Weapons now actually feel different, plus selecting your repertoire prior to missions just makes more sense (to me, at least). However, I'd like it if they brought back greater armour selection and weapon modification. It could be done along the lines of "collected salvage" at the end of each mission, detailed in the report, and then letting you find the new stuff aboard your ship, wherein you make adjustments in the armoury.


In essence... an inventory system.  I thought it was a waste?

#35
DukeOfNukes

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Mass Effect 2 - take all the things in ME1 that needed to be tweaked and instead throw them out the window. Make minor improvements to combat, and all the forum trolls will think it's better.

#36
Christmas Ape

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MadCat221 wrote...
In essence... an inventory system. I thought it was a waste?

I don't think you're lawyering that phrase to mean what it's saying. It reads to me, at least, as "more N7 armor pieces, more similar small-bonus upgrades you can swap between weapons". Not an inventory screen on the pause menu, but making the Armory weapon lockers actually worthwhile - a place where you decide to swap your much more limited selection of ME1 style mods between weapons. "Let's try the Vindicator on larger bursts" or "Let's try the Carnifex with a scram rail" kind of weapon modding.

They're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I read.

Mass Effect 2 - take all the things in ME1 that needed to be tweaked and
instead throw them out the window. Make minor improvements to combat,
and all the forum trolls will think it's better.

You misspelled "gripe in completely unrelated threads at the slightest perceived opportunity". Reasonable posters will discuss the relative merits or weaknesses of the game in threads set up for that purpose. Try it out.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 13 septembre 2010 - 05:14 .


#37
upsettingshorts

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Something baby something throwing something bathwater.



There's a happy medium. Neither system has it right.

#38
Christmas Ape

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Something baby something throwing something bathwater.

There's a happy medium. Neither system has it right.

To be fair, the baby was a four hundred pound Lovecraftian abomination.

#39
Reiisha

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There should be a medium between having a bloated/broken inventory and none whatsoever. ME1's system was far from perfect, obviously, but ME2's system is... Well, not there at all.



1) Bring back heat. Keep reading for my reasoning.

2) Make Shepard able to pick up weapons from fallen enemies and exchange them with his own. This allows for more customization within missions aswell as making adding new weapons much more organic. Armor pieces could be gained in the same way, rather than full armors, as research items to be reverse engineered.

3) Bring back ammo/barrel/armor 'plugin' items. Keep the drops to a limited quantity, so you'll never build up more than ~20 to 30 items even on a mission as long as Feros/Virmire/Noveria. This way items will be valuable (as in, no need for useless items since they're so rare) and useful while still being believable (no 150 armors in your inventory, just weapon and armor mods which might fit in a small bag or similar). Weapon mods are the reason for heat over ammo - This way it's more believable rather than lugging around hundreds of rounds of different ammo types. It also removes the cumbersome ammo powers, which feel more like they're designed to pad out character sheets than to actually be useful. I suspect their inclusion is purely because of a lack of weapon mods rather than as a design for a "proper" character ability.

4) Simple design change that would make heat managable as ammo: Weapon mods should not reduce heat buildup (like ME1 did) but instead increase cooling (so gameplay technically it would play the same as ME2 with infinite ammo, given the very best weapon mods you can get). This allows for different weapon mods to affect different weapons differently, making all weapons still useful in their own situations, given proper balancing, and giving the player a choice of preference rather than a choice of necessity.



This system would be believable, easy to manage, useful and contributing to the customization options without taking too much resources to create.



On retconning back to heat: ME2 only mentions ammo in text, as far as i'm aware it's mentioned nowhere in dialogue. This is a change that could be pushed through pretty easily because of that reason, as immersion is broken only in the details. That, and as a military i'd rather have infinite ammo than.... finite ammo. The change from ME1 to ME2 made no sense from a lore perspective imho.

#40
coinop25

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I think we can all agree the old ME1 inventory system was poorly managed.



Clearly we differ in opinion about the new inventory system, but I'll go on record saying I think it's a huge improvement. The only thing that was really missing from the game as originally packaged was variety in weaponry, though the DLC has corrected this to some extent. Recall, too, that ME1 had much less variety in weaponry than ME2 even before DLC – once your stats were high enough, it was just a matter of which guns were objectively better, rather than trading off one attribute for another (e.g., firing rate vs. damage).



I guess I can see how you might want better control of squad armor from a micromanagement perspective, though personally I'd find that more fun for special armor effects than for differences in damage resistance. (Devlon armor would have been cool on Haestrom!) If you just have a desire to see greater variety in outfits, I don't think a more extensive inventory system is really the answer to that, so much as more outfits available in the current system. (And that shouldn't be SO hard, seeing as how most outfits are just different color options anyway. We see "Archangel" in different outfits before and recruiting him, so it's not as if they didn't have the "clean and nice" version of a character model for him. Why don't we get access to that?)



Mining was a dumb addition, but that's neither here nor there. No reason they couldn't have had all upgrades be things you paid for in credits or simply found fully usable by hacking/poking through crates. I wish that was what they had done, or that there had been some way of getting minerals that required killing things or scouring planetscapes on the ground instead of scanning things from space. I miss the otherworldly vistas of ME1. But again, neither here nor there.



What's the big attraction of super detailed inventory management, anyway? I love RPGs, but I don't think I'd miss it if it were removed from most of them. Imagine a game like Fallout 3 where you're only able to wear one set of underclothes and one suit of armor at a time at maximum, and only able to carry one of each type of gun. Less inventory management = more hardcore, no?

#41
clennon8

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In ME2, Shepard's "inventory" is pretty much what you can seen him/her carrying. Frankly, that's how it should be. In ME1, Shepard carried around dozens or hundreds of items in some sort of magic bag or something. It was stupid. Say what you will, but ME2 did it way better.

#42
adriano_c

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MadCat221 wrote...

adriano_c wrote...

An inventory, as it was, is a waste. It only served to let you carry around an unreasonable (and unrealistic) amount of redundant junk. Was being able to scroll through 8-9 differently coloured pistols of the same sort necessary? Not really. Weapons now actually feel different, plus selecting your repertoire prior to missions just makes more sense (to me, at least). However, I'd like it if they brought back greater armour selection and weapon modification. It could be done along the lines of "collected salvage" at the end of each mission, detailed in the report, and then letting you find the new stuff aboard your ship, wherein you make adjustments in the armoury.


In essence... an inventory system.  I thought it was a waste?


If you call what the game has now an inventory system, then, sure.

#43
kraidy1117

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There was no excuse to take out squad customization. Now we have people like Jack running around half naked or Miri running around in high heels. Plus I miss the weapon mod system :(

#44
adriano_c

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Christmas Ape wrote...

]I don't think you're lawyering that phrase to mean what it's saying. It reads to me, at least, as "more N7 armor pieces, more similar small-bonus upgrades you can swap between weapons". Not an inventory screen on the pause menu, but making the Armory weapon lockers actually worthwhile - a place where you decide to swap your much more limited selection of ME1 style mods between weapons. "Let's try the Vindicator on larger bursts" or "Let's try the Carnifex with a scram rail" kind of weapon modding.

They're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I read.


Sums it up, yeah.

#45
kraidy1117

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clennon8 wrote...

In ME2, Shepard's "inventory" is pretty much what you can seen him/her carrying. Frankly, that's how it should be. In ME1, Shepard carried around dozens or hundreds of items in some sort of magic bag or something. It was stupid. Say what you will, but ME2 did it way better.

Yes, not being able to customize our squad is better :mellow:<_<

Modifié par kraidy1117, 13 septembre 2010 - 05:46 .


#46
MrnDvlDg161

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I find that the type of complaint arises from one's tilt towards either a more pro-shooter slant or a pro-RPG slant... and this dicussion and argument has been going on and off from here to eternity...with the locked threads to show for it.

The inventory change was from complaints about the inventory...so you had no inventory to worry about... that would probably make the run-and-gun amongst us very happy while others not so much... Dragon Age has the same problem with finding junk... and in that same breath so does  FallOut 3 and Oblivian. 

Was the aquistion of items hard at first to figure out in ME1?  Yes --- but once you figured out what worked and what didn't,  you began to leave items where they were...OR...you could have just as easily turned them into Medi-Gel. You also had free reighn in figuring out who you wanted to up-grade because you chose which team you were ending up taking for various missions.... so you know...adapt as you learn type of deal...then sell the rest for credits.  It basically asked for you to take time...and time it seems is what gamers don't much have these days...and therefore you ended up with the new model in ME2.  What can I say ---  the Resistance Fall Of Man types won in that regard and the Chimera were waiting on distant planets to shoot and kill.  RPG side?  -1. Its the way it goes. It will get worse once the PS3 crowd gets through with it and I am quite sure it will stay the way it is for  No. 3.   Taking the inventory route out was crap ... and yes it is part of an RPG  because your motivated to find the best weapons, watch your characters get stronger and have a sence that they grew better when you first started out.  Again...this is a mixed genere game...some things your not going to like while other things you will.

I noticed somone said that having too many weapons was unrealistic...well I beg to differ because the way they had the weapons on your person and how they were compact until you used them...made it possible.  Ever notice the sniper rifles fold out when you go to engage the enemy with them?  Its Sci-Fi folks. Why are you looking for  " Realism" in a futuristic setting... that is like demanding realism in a Final Fantasy game...  " Why, you can't have some retro looking guy hold up a sword that's  5x bigger them him! Its unreal!!!"  

Inventory is a staple of an RPG game. It has no basiss for reality as Magic, Manna, or a Bag of Holding does... but no one ranted about that too much when your Couisland dealt with it.   Its an  RPG/Shooter my friends, your going to have RPG stuff in it... and since you don't have too much of it in ME2... what more capitulations do you need before it turns into a pretty version of  Gears Of War without steroid enlarged  dudes running around with over-the-top weapons?


As for Armor. Someone is going to get pissed off one way or another, but acting like Theocrats in Iran about the situation is a bit ubsurd.  So what. Its putting style into the game where it was rather somewhat dull and a little too closed-minded in the last one.  Who wrote to Squre Enix in a 5,000 page essay with the label   " Morality In The Game World: Why Female Explotation Is Wrong In Chavunist Video Games  where you decided to claim that Bayonetta needed to have a full set of  digtital cammies,  Heavinly Sword should have had a full set of Scale Armor and the hard core bucket helmet with the small 2 inch slit for eye-holes or that Morrigan looked too much like a woodsy ho.

Get over it. I feel like I'm sitting in an anuual town hall meeting filled with Puritans discussing why Lady such and so was seen after 7pm in the market square.

In the end since the changers were made to the standard of  ME2, it is my hope that they just keep it that way then because any more simplifcation would kill the mood...and back tracking will confuse too many people who are now already customed to what ME2 provides. Its good as it is.  Tweak it a little bit...but a total mak over isn't nesessary at this point unless you really do want it to be a pretty version of  a COD rip off.

#47
DukeOfNukes

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Christmas Ape wrote...
You misspelled "gripe in completely unrelated threads at the slightest perceived opportunity". Reasonable posters will discuss the relative merits or weaknesses of the game in threads set up for that purpose. Try it out.

It's not unrelated at all...my feelings on the matter were very clear. ME1's inventory system needed some tweaking to be sure...better organization, stacking, more unique weapons...but getting rid of it entirely was overboard.

In ME1 you had 17 different "lines" of Assault rifles, 9 different types of ammo mods, and 5 different weapon mods. That means you had 765 possible combinations, and that's NOT including the different levels or the guns that had spaces for more than 1 mod. Admittedly, it's overboard....but going from 765+ to...a MAX of 6?

#48
adriano_c

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DukeOfNukes wrote...

In ME1 you had 17 different "lines" of Assault rifles


:lol:

Actually, you had one type of rifle that shot the same green globules as the "16 others", that may or may not have had different colours and slightly different intangible statistics.

#49
clennon8

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kraidy1117 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

In ME2, Shepard's "inventory" is pretty much what you can seen him/her carrying. Frankly, that's how it should be. In ME1, Shepard carried around dozens or hundreds of items in some sort of magic bag or something. It was stupid. Say what you will, but ME2 did it way better.

Yes, not being able to customize our squad is better :mellow:<_<


I wouldn't object to improved squad customization.  They don't really need to implement an inventory system for that, though.

#50
The Big Nothing

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I want Jack's belt bra for male Shepards.