153 réponses à ce sujet

[Code_R]

The only thing wrong with the item system in ME1 was the cap on how much you can carry. Without it it would have been perfect in both games.

[kstarler]

I was actually a little off-put the first time that I played through ME2 by the lack of inventory, as well as other aspects that were missing from ME1. But after playing through ME2 a few times, and then going back to play through ME1 a couple of times (needed a Manshep with Liara for an LI and a Femshep with no LI), I found that I liked the changes in ME2 more than I realized.

And, I don't know about others as far as weapons went in ME1, but I always, without fail, ended up with Spectre VII or Spectre X guns on Shepard and every squad mate. So I actually prefer the weapon system in ME2 better, because there isn't one super gun for each slot. Even the collector vessel weapons are really only super guns on lower difficulties, because ammo or accuracy limitations at higher difficulties can offset their effectiveness.

With that said, I would like some weapon customization beyond what is available in ME2, and I certainly support more armor and other equipment upgrades for Shepard, and armor/equipment upgrades for Squad members. I'm happy to look at any buoyant, elevated fuel tanks that can be found around the Normandy (if you don't get the reference, you haven't spent enough time around Engineer Donnelly), but in most video games, fuel tanks explode when you shoot them. Basically, I'm happy with the choices we have for squad mates during non-combat operations, with maybe one additional appearance as with the Alt. Appearance DLC, but when we hit the ground in ME3, I'd rather see my female squad mate in Colossus X than a vinyl cat suit.

Of course, in the case of Jack, and possibly Thane, I kind of understand the lack of armor. But then, they should have a biotic barrier in place instead. And they should certainly need environmental suites where applicable.

Modifié par kstarler, 13 septembre 2010 - 08:57 .

[Getorex]

tonnactus wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda's outfit was an office outfit, not a combat hardsuit.

Lol.What is missed?No woman would work in such office outfit in any seriuos company.

One can dream...

There needs to be at least some room for gratuitous eye-candy.  Don't want a bunch of butch all-business-no-pleasure babes in my RPG.

[Whatever42]

Getorex wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda's outfit was an office outfit, not a combat hardsuit.

Lol.What is missed?No woman would work in such office outfit in any seriuos company.

One can dream...

There needs to be at least some room for gratuitous eye-candy.  Don't want a bunch of butch all-business-no-pleasure babes in my RPG.

Don't believe it for a minute. I work at a very serious company and its amazing what the women can get away with wearing. I have this woman on my team that dresses almost that provocatively and its damn distracting.

[Turian Antiquarian]

Getorex wrote...


One can dream...

There needs to be at least some room for gratuitous eye-candy. Don't want a bunch of butch all-business-no-pleasure babes in my RPG.

EXACTLY!
Tomb Raider?! anyone?

And it's clear Bioware know this already:

1) They're not idiots.

2) Anyala makes a joke about it.
---------------------------------------------

@OP

The former inventory model was, as you said, scraped, can't even find a shadow of it in "readable" files. Unlike heat based weapons.

If you need further reference, you've got that thing Mordin says about STG logistics.

Things are awesome now except for ammo being considered a power. It's enough for me just to have this one aspect of weapon customization, but please, Its just not on the same level as powers/talents.

[Christmas Ape]

slimgrin wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
Seriously, scrapping the inventory was one of the best moves Bioware made in ME2...

That's as far as I got.

It is compelling in its brevity, isn't it? Succinct and to the point.

There is a CRPG-specific term for 95% of all the items contained in Mass Effect.
"Vendor trash". They require you to be terrible at math or be playing Krogan Dress-Up Party in order to think of them differently.

I'd enjoy a few more options in terms of tweaking squadmates, but for it to matter they'd probably need better individual AI and a more robust combat system. No point in gearing up Zaeed for suppressive fire if you can't order him to cover your advance in any real way.

[Turian Antiquarian]

Christmas Ape wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...
Seriously, scrapping the inventory was one of the best moves Bioware made in ME2...

That's as far as I got.

It is compelling in its brevity, isn't it? Succinct and to the point.

There is a CRPG-specific term for 95% of all the items contained in Mass Effect.
"Vendor trash". They require you to be terrible at math or be playing Krogan Dress-Up Party in order to think of them differently.

I'd enjoy a few more options in terms of tweaking squadmates, but for it to matter they'd probably need better individual AI and a more robust combat system. No point in gearing up Zaeed for suppressive fire if you can't order him to cover your advance in any real way.

That part I really liked, especially getting Wrex a super-kool armor.

I still wish there was a way to change textures and meshes of weapons and squadmate armors. I just don't want anyone to assume that I'm terrible at math, or that I can't tell the difference between customization and redundant parallel progression.

Almost certain I read a developer's post about individual Hench AI. Regardless, If Henchmen are to be able to use heavies without "collateraling" you to oblivion, A change must be made.

Also they can't use shotguns.

Modifié par Turian Antiquarian, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:36 .

[squidney2k1]

Part of the experience of any RPG is getting new loot. Even action-oriented RPGs like Fable 2 handle this aspect better. The fact is that there is really nothing rewarding about unlocking new upgrades or finding new guns since they're pretty much handed out to you. ME1's system was not much better, but it still left the experience somewhat more rewarding since new weapons and gear were constantly being unlocked, and of course the randomization of items from loot.





There are several ways to fix this. They could introduce certain quests or missions that specifically rewarded items like weapons and armor; actual creation of new weapons using the Normandy's armory that requires both unique resources and missions; and instead of simply "handing" you a new weapon or uber weapon like on the Collector Ship, there would actually be a specific, optional mission (or series of them) that you would undertake to acquire said weapons/abilities...trial by fire, so to speak.

[Christmas Ape]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
It is compelling in its brevity, isn't it? Succinct and to the point.

There is a CRPG-specific term for 95% of all the items contained in Mass Effect.
"Vendor trash". They require you to be terrible at math or be playing Krogan Dress-Up Party in order to think of them differently.

I'd enjoy a few more options in terms of tweaking squadmates, but for it to matter they'd probably need better individual AI and a more robust combat system. No point in gearing up Zaeed for suppressive fire if you can't order him to cover your advance in any real way.

That part I really liked, especially getting Wrex a super-kool armor.

I'll grant you the first time I found something from the Geth Armory for Wrex I made a little happy noise. But you know what's great at dress-up? The Sims. Hell, even Saint's Row 2 does pretty well for itself. Not what I bought Mass Effect for.

I still wish there was a way to change textures and meshes of weapons and squadmate armors. I just don't want anyone to assume that I'm terrible at math, or that I can't tell the difference between customization and redundant parallel progression.

Other than TexMod, I gather you mean? I know it doesn't do meshes, but it's something. And from what I recall of the Modding is Possible thread(s) you seem to have your head on straight.

Almost certain I read a developer's post about individual Hench AI, regardless If Henchmen are to be able to use heavies without "collateraling" you to oblivion, A change must be made.

Also they can't use shotguns.

They seem to be able to, just...poorly.

Personally, I find the very limited number of loot items in ME2 - being a handful of weapons, armor pieces, and some upgrades - makes them more rewarding to find. I'm chomping at the bit to do the missions where you recover new guns. Sure they're the same every time, but they represent identifiable changes in options and tactics as opposed to a slow constant progression from smaller numbers to bigger ones - and I prefer the former. YMM, as always, V.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 14 septembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Turian Antiquarian]

squidney2k1 wrote...

Part of the experience of any RPG is getting new loot. Even action-oriented RPGs like Fable 2 handle this aspect better. The fact is that there is really nothing rewarding about unlocking new upgrades or finding new guns since they're pretty much handed out to you. ME1's system was not much better, but it still left the experience somewhat more rewarding since new weapons and gear were constantly being unlocked, and of course the randomization of items from loot.


There are several ways to fix this. They could introduce certain quests or missions that specifically rewarded items like weapons and armor; actual creation of new weapons using the Normandy's armory that requires both unique resources and missions; and instead of simply "handing" you a new weapon or uber weapon like on the Collector Ship, there would actually be a specific, optional mission (or series of them) that you would undertake to acquire said weapons/abilities...trial by fire, so to speak.

Do you remember Mordin's quote about STG Vs SPECTER Logistics?

I think that the "Loot" part is dead for good. The 4 Billion credits man will never again have to scrounge up stuff to save the day. However, if he happens to find something interesting, there's a team of psycho-scientists just waiting for him to bring it back for reverse-engineering.

mmmm...

Maybe that credit-chit thing in that guy's bedroom was also a joke about RPG looting...

[Rieverre]

An inventory system does not an RPG make. In ME2's case, I think that worked out for the best. Pick your armor composition before heading out. Same with weapons you want to carry. Don't mix and match things in the middle of a mission. Adds to immersion.



But yes, we should have the option to kit our squadmates out in armor as well. I dearly wanted to slap some Cerberus Assault Armor on Jacob and Miranda, for instance.

[CaptainZaysh]

This is why I was really pleased to see the inventory system gone:

Then loot their bodies. Because, you know, that's a big part of every adventure movie or book you've ever enjoyed, right? Looting the bodies is an important part of the action-hero fantasy, right?If I had a nickel for every time Indiana Jones killed a N*zi and then rifled through his pockets, I'd be a rich f**king man. I mean, every time Han Solo caps a Stormtrooper, he immediately yells to Chewbacca, "Hey, give me a hand, you big ball of fur! There's a bunch of dead guys here just completely weighed down with free s**t!"So, yes, by all means, loot the bodies, because that's really the sort of action-adventure experience we're all looking for. Congratulations-- you just molested a corpse and earned ten f**king bullets for your troubles. Big f**king hero, you.

From The Ace of Spades blog.

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 14 septembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Don't believe it for a minute. I work at a very serious company and its amazing what the women can get away with wearing. I have this woman on my team that dresses almost that provocatively and its damn distracting.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Turian Antiquarian]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

This is why I was really pleased to see the inventory system gone:

Then loot their bodies. Because, you know, that's a big part of every adventure movie or book you've ever enjoyed, right? Looting the bodies is an important part of the action-hero fantasy, right?If I had a nickel for every time Indiana Jones killed a N*zi and then rifled through his pockets, I'd be a rich f**king man. I mean, every time Han Solo caps a Stormtrooper, he immediately yells to Chewbacca, "Hey, give me a hand, you big ball of fur! There's a bunch of dead guys here just completely weighed down with free s**t!"So, yes, by all means, loot the bodies, because that's really the sort of action-adventure experience we're all looking for. Congratulations-- you just molested a corpse and earned ten f**king bullets for your troubles. Big f**king hero, you.

From The Ace of Spades blog.

ME1 never let's you loot bodies (once on bdts), it's all lockers and stuff.

ME2 allows you to search bodies several times during the game.

BTW
Han Solo was dressed like a Stormtrooper on the movie I saw, how did he get that get-up I wonder...

[Kavadas]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...

ME1 never let's you loot bodies (once on bdts), it's all lockers and stuff.

ROFL, yes it did.  Whenever you killed something and then accessed your inventory a window would pop up listing of the new preciouses you just "earned".

Sure, you didn't go rummage through the corpse, because somehow that step was magically automated for you, but you absolutely did directly earn loot through killing mobs.

Modifié par Kavadas, 14 septembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[catabuca]

In terms of weapon stats, Christina Norman tweeted a couple of days ago that one of the things she doesn't love about the new ME2 system is how players have to take it on faith that their 'upgrades' are actually doing something.

Now, this might not mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but considering her role in the game's development, I'm quietly confident that some kind of minor re-write to that mechanic will be introduced into ME3, whether it be actual stats next to the weapons, or some kind of physical change to the weapons once you've researched an upgrade. Heck, we might, just might, even get some proper mods we can apply in the armoury.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with inventories. Our current armoury is an inventory. Think of how we can cycle through options for Shep's armour in his cabin – I think being able to do something like that with some of the weapons in the armoury would be excellent. We don't carry endless mods around with us in an inventory like in ME1, but we have further options to customise our weaponry to our liking before every mission in the armoury, just like we can for Shep's N7 armour. What a great compromise that would be. Those who don't want to do that could stick with the base model, or maybe there will be non-customisable weapons, just as there are armours, but those who do want to can do so with minimal fuss.

And squadmate armour. Oh god, YES PLEASE! For the love of all things space vacuumy - SQUAD ARMOUR.

[Christmas Ape]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...
ME1 never let's you loot bodies (once on bdts), it's all lockers and stuff.

Untrue; sometimes "inventory" lights up after you kill an enemy as you automatically pick up anything that might be of value that falls off his corpse.

Han Solo was dressed like a Stormtrooper on the movie I saw, how did he get that get-up I wonder...

That's a disguise. Han and Luke don Stormtrooper armor, taken from a couple Stormtroopers they shot, to blend in with the Death Star's troops. They did not loot the weapons and armor from the rest of the men they shot in that scene and stuff it in a bag so they could sell it later. And you never see them wear that armor again.

[Turian Antiquarian]

Kavadas wrote...

Turian Antiquarian wrote...

ME1 never let's you loot bodies (once on bdts), it's all lockers and stuff.

ROFL, yes it did.  Whenever you killed something and then accessed your inventory a window would pop up listing of the new preciouses you just "earned".

Sure, you didn't go rummage through the corpse, because somehow that step was magically automated for you, but you absolutely did directly earn loot through killing mobs.

Sorry, I played FO3 before ME1, So calling what you said "looting bodies" didn't even occur to me. It also adds medkits and grenades to your inventory even without entering the equipment screen, not to mention from 1000ft away after you destroy a colossus from inside the Mako. You can just as well say that you are "looting" XP points from corpses.

Even super Mario on the N64 had to TOUCH the boxes to get coins and power-ups.

If someone considers what was mentioned above as "looting dead bodies", It's their right and I do not intend to try and persuade them otherwise.

[Terror_K]

Turian Antiquarian wrote...

Sorry, I played FO3 before ME1, So calling what you said "looting bodies" didn't even occur to me. It also adds medkits and grenades to your inventory even without entering the equipment screen, not to mention from 1000ft away after you destroy a colossus from inside the Mako. You can just as well say that you are "looting" XP points from corpses.

Even super Mario on the N64 had to TOUCH the boxes to get coins and power-ups.

If someone considers what was mentioned above as "looting dead bodies", It's their right and I do not intend to try and persuade them otherwise.

Well, BioWare referred to it as an auto-looting system themselves prior to ME1's release, so it comes from them directly. They put it in place to save players from having to go to the bodies and find the items basically, and locially just said that it really is you looting the corpses, but they cut out the middle-man to stop the process from being unnecessarily tedious.

Yes, I know... it's a shame they couldn't have done the same with the inventory itself a little. That was, after all, the main problem with ME1's inventory system as a whole. But while flawed I don't think scrapping it was the answer. What ME2 gave us was certainly no better, and in many cases worse.

[Hurrrr]

TheShadowmancer wrote...

No. It was horrible. It took out the sense of progression and replaced it with "Ultimate mining experience," which is so boring that I find it hard to do more playthroughs.

But the amount of junk you collected :/

Spent ages re-organizing slightly re-textured versions of the same gun, the only difference being a model number at the end. Was possibly the most horribly generic loot i've ever seen in a game, excepting dragon age. Was awful beyond belief 0.o I know its harder to give a gun a personality than a sword but really something was seriously wrong there

I know what you mean though! Good examples of inv = Deus ex right? I like the idea that I have a box of tools at my disposal, or different ones for certain job, and god knows ME2 got same'y too quickly.

[Turian Antiquarian]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Han Solo was dressed like a Stormtrooper on the movie I saw, how did he get that get-up I wonder...

That's a disguise. Han and Luke don Stormtrooper armor, taken from a couple Stormtroopers they shot, to blend in with the Death Star's troops. They did not loot the weapons and armor from the rest of the men they shot in that scene and stuff it in a bag so they could sell it later. And you never see them wear that armor again.

You know very well that you cannot compare Interactive PC games and Movies.
It's like saying that Binary math is useless because you can only count to one.

The only PERFECT example I can think of, regarding what a player's character can carry on his/her person, is the one from the halo series.
Pretty much any other game ever, just violated the laws of times and space at some point.

ME2 is a close second.

ME1 lets you carry 150 krogan armors in your pocket.

[Ross42899]

It was not a good thing. It was a really bad thing to remove the inventory. It takes a lot of the RPG feeling in ME2. Most fans wanted and improved inventory, not an removed inventory. I hope there will be again somekind of improved inventory in ME3.

Modifié par Ross42899, 14 septembre 2010 - 10:50 .

[Turian Antiquarian]

Terror_K wrote...

Turian Antiquarian wrote...

Sorry, I played FO3 before ME1, So calling what you said "looting bodies" didn't even occur to me. It also adds medkits and grenades to your inventory even without entering the equipment screen, not to mention from 1000ft away after you destroy a colossus from inside the Mako. You can just as well say that you are "looting" XP points from corpses.

Even super Mario on the N64 had to TOUCH the boxes to get coins and power-ups.

If someone considers what was mentioned above as "looting dead bodies", It's their right and I do not intend to try and persuade them otherwise.

Well, BioWare referred to it as an auto-looting system themselves prior to ME1's release, so it comes from them directly. They put it in place to save players from having to go to the bodies and find the items basically, and locially just said that it really is you looting the corpses, but they cut out the middle-man to stop the process from being unnecessarily tedious.

Yes, I know... it's a shame they couldn't have done the same with the inventory itself a little. That was, after all, the main problem with ME1's inventory system as a whole. But while flawed I don't think scrapping it was the answer. What ME2 gave us was certainly no better, and in many cases worse.

First, I already said I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone, so no need for "proof". In fact, I Fully recognize the causative connection between killing enemies and getting loot.

What I was referring to, Was the detailed process of "corpse mutilation" described in that blog quote.
If that guy really finds any kind of beneficial effect from killing enemies appalling, super Mario is indeed the only game for him.

BTW,

"Auto-looting system?"

If it's an official Bioware statment, then I respect them too much to elaborate on that.

See my post in the thread about New species to get the idea.

[Kosmiker]

As far as guns and ammo powers go (and gun upgrades and so on..) I always wanted something like this: