111 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

fongiel24 wrote...


"Even if he does or doesn't choose to wear armor he still does" - what does this mean? He jumps the turians not out of choice but because he has to if he's going to rescue TIM and escape the station. It's an impressive feat and one that not many ordinary humans could do, but Karpyshyn makes it clear that Kai Leng only managed it because he hit the turians while they were distracted. He's not running around taking on mobs of enemies with his shirt off. Like all good soldiers, he picks his fights.

Seriously, the only reason you get to do this with Shep is that it's a video game. In a novel (unless it's the graphic kind) this becomes comical and silly.

The turians only realized he was a threat when he was already in striking distance. Again, an impressive display of hand-to-hand combat skills, but the turians still aren't really "ready for him".

What more do you want in a kick ass soldier? Great combat ability, great ability to not only keep his head, but use it too for his advantage,

I'm not complaining about Kai Leng getting help, I'm pointing out that he felt the need to take a half dozen men to take on one ordinary human and a naked asari. 

Come on now. You're twisting things. Kai Leng didn't need 6 people to take on one man and a naked asari. He could do that himself if his mission was to kill them. He needed grayson alive, and the 6 people were about getting grayson off the station undetected. I'm sure even Shepard would be kinda conspicous carrying Grayson over his shoulder on the way out to the normandy,

I never said that you said that Kai Leng was better than Shepard. You argued that Kai Leng shouldn't be underestimated. I simply listed everything he did in Retribution and concluded that none of it quite matches up to what Shepard has done through two games. As for me being a Kai Leng hater, I've given Kai Leng credit where credit is due. He's an exceptional soldier and assassin but beyond that there's nothing to suggest he's capable of stepping into Shepard's shoes.

There is no reason to compare Shepard's accomplishments to Kai Leng. Kai Leng received the same N7 training. Thats reason enough to believe his is close, if not equal to Shepard's skills.  Shepard isn't a god or a superhero. He was taking out mobs in ME1 even without the cybernetics. There isn't a reason not to assume Kai Leng has similar fighting potential.

Modifié par mosor, 13 septembre 2010 - 10:24 .

[Zulu_DFA]

tonnactus wrote...

CptAwesomePhD wrote...

Everything TIM touches turns into a hilarious mess. Basically every Cerberus-related mission in both games was about you cleaning up the mess because some cell or another screwed up big time. The only thing Cerberus ever did right was bringing Shepard back, and even that didn't turn out the way TIM wanted

Thats right.Its pure luck that wilson didnt have sucess with his plan.And wilson was a shadowbroker agent.He nearly killed all the people there by hacking the mechs.I wouldnt bet any money on cerberus. Aria,by the way,is also likely an enemy of the illusive man now.

Miranda hacked the mechs, to give Shepard a live fire test and eliminate treason. The Shadow Broker wanted Shepard alive.

[yummysoap]

Why are you stating that as though it's fact? Is there even a single hint of that in-game?

[tonnactus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Miranda hacked the mechs, to give Shepard a live fire test and eliminate treason. The Shadow Broker wanted Shepard alive.

The writers disagree with you.It would make far more sense that this was all planned by the illusive man,but this isnt the case.

[Jagri]

"They let me pick, did I ever tell you that? Choose whichever N7/Spectre operative I wanted. You know me. I did my research. Watched as you became the soldier we needed you to be. Like the others, you were strong and swift and brave. A natural leader. But you had something they didn't. Something no one saw... but me. Can you guess? Luck. Was I wrong?"



You forget to mention Shepard had access to Spectre training unlike Kai Leng. Of course in a video game they didn't show it cause it would slow down the pace of the game.

[Barquiel]

mosor wrote...

Kai Leng received the same N7 training. Thats reason enough to believe his is close, if not equal to Shepard's skills. 

In that case, TIM has wasted 4 billion credits.

[jbblue05]

fongiel24 wrote...

"Even if he does or doesn't choose to wear armor he still does" - what does this mean? He jumps the turians not out of choice but because he has to if he's going to rescue TIM and escape the station. It's an impressive feat and one that not many ordinary humans could do, but Karpyshyn makes it clear that Kai Leng only managed it because he hit the turians while they were distracted. He's not running around taking on mobs of enemies with his shirt off. Like all good soldiers, he picks his fights. 

 I meant he doesn't its a typo.  What point are you trying to prove what he does is total badass. Do you want him to alert the Turians so they get a fair chance to shoot him?

The turians only realized he was a threat when he was already in striking distance. Again, an impressive display of hand-to-hand combat skills, but the turians still aren't really "ready for him".

Kai Leng was too quick for them the Turians were slowed down by their armor

Don't forget he threaten Aria while unarmed when he was surrounded by her goons and didn't flinch or stutter once.

So he's able to keep his composure under pressure. All this incident proves is that he has guts. He doesn't actually take on Aria or her goons.

I'm suprised you didn't say Shepard could grab that Batarians collar ine ME2

If your going to complain about Kai Leng getting help so did Shepard. Shepard and Kai Leng both take on impossible odds because that's what N7 marines do.

I'm not complaining about Kai Leng getting help, I'm pointing out that he felt the need to take a half dozen men to take on one ordinary human and a naked asari. 

You don't like the way he killed Liselle i understand  but he did what he had to do

I never said Kai Leng was better then SHepard why are you assuming that?

I never said that you said that Kai Leng was better than Shepard. You argued that Kai Leng shouldn't be underestimated. I simply listed everything he did in Retribution and concluded that none of it quite matches up to what Shepard has done through two games. As for me being a Kai Leng hater, I've given Kai Leng credit where credit is due. He's an exceptional soldier and assassin but beyond that there's nothing to suggest he's capable of stepping into Shepard's shoes.

So why did you bring Shepard into the conversation when I was discussing Kai Leng and Liara and yes Shepard is a badass

I think Kai Leng and Shepard know each other from N7 training. Shepard was 1st in class while Kai Leng was second in class but its just a hunch

Kai Leng was freed from a military prison and recruited into Cerberus ten years before ME2, when Shepard would have only been 21. For them to have met in N7 training and stick to the Retribution timeline, Shepard would have had to qualify for N7 and graduate within 4 years (assuming he enlisted at 17, the minimum age the U.S. military accepts recruits) and Kai Leng would have had to graduate from N7, get thrown in jail almost immediately upon graduation, then be rescued by Cerberus right after that. The chances of them being in the same graduating class or crossing paths in the N7 training program at all are minimal.  

I'm curious can you give me a source I'm not quite sure how the N7 program works?

Modifié par jbblue05, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:11 .

[Dave of Canada]

Barquiel wrote...

In that case, TIM has wasted 4 billion credits.

Shepard has ties to the galaxy as a whole, is charismatic and is the Hero of the Citadel. If Kai Leng took Shepard's place, he wouldn't have recruited any of the aliens / wouldn't have helped anybody and wouldn't have been able to regroup an army to help fight the Reapers.

[Barquiel]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

In that case, TIM has wasted 4 billion credits.

Shepard has ties to the galaxy as a whole, is charismatic and is the Hero of the Citadel. If Kai Leng took Shepard's place, he wouldn't have recruited any of the aliens / wouldn't have helped anybody and wouldn't have been able to regroup an army to help fight the Reapers.

Tali and Jack wouldn't join Kai Leng, that's true.
I am not sure about Garrus.

Miranda and Jacob are cerberus operatives. They don't care.
Zaeed and Kasumi are hired guns
Grunt wants to fight, that's all.
Samara (he would probably replace her with Morinth) and Mordin want to stop the collectors as well. They don't know Shepard.

Modifié par Barquiel, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:15 .

[Dave of Canada]

Barquiel wrote...

Tali and Jack wouldn't join Kai Leng, that's true.
I am not sure about Garrus.

Miranda and Jacob are cerberus operatives. They don't care.
Zaeed and Kasumi are hired guns
Grunt wants to fight, that's all.
Samara (he would probably replace her with Morinth) and Mordin want to stop the collectors as well. They don't know Shepard.

Well, he wouldn't recruit Samara / Morinth / Mordin / Grunt because they are aliens, Kai Leng is extremely xenophobe that he didn't even want to go to Omega's afterlife bar.

[Barquiel]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Tali and Jack wouldn't join Kai Leng, that's true.
I am not sure about Garrus.

Miranda and Jacob are cerberus operatives. They don't care.
Zaeed and Kasumi are hired guns
Grunt wants to fight, that's all.
Samara (he would probably replace her with Morinth) and Mordin want to stop the collectors as well. They don't know Shepard.

Well, he wouldn't recruit Samara / Morinth / Mordin / Grunt because they are aliens, Kai Leng is extremely xenophobe that he didn't even want to go to Omega's afterlife bar.

okay, Kai Leng (I really want to kill him in ME3) is a bad example. But I think not every N7 marine is a racist idiot

[McAllyster]

OK, I didn't read the Retribution yet, but I'm already hating this Kai Leng guy.



Come on, there is no greater badass in the galaxy like Shepard. He is the Chosen One - the Neo / Anakin Skywalker / whoever of Mass Effect.



OK, Kai Leng should be a great assassin / soldier / operative / whatever, but Liara is also is a powerful character. In my first ME1 playthrough I brought Liara to the final battle - in this case she is the one who helped us to kill the first Reaper in the past 50000 years. In the ME comics she also proves to be a powerful asari - easily takes down the pirates on the way to Omega, etc. In LotSB she survives the terrorist attact which destroyed 3 floors, and after that she chased an asari Spectre. And after that she helped us to kill the SB himself.



So Liara is not a weak character - I think anyone who want to kill her is in a great trouble. [Except Shepard, but Shepard is a friend - or more than a friend. ]

[Zulu_DFA]

tonnactus wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Miranda hacked the mechs, to give Shepard a live fire test and eliminate treason. The Shadow Broker wanted Shepard alive.

The writers disagree with you.

Only in the unused audio.

tonnactus wrote...
It would make far more sense that this was all planned by the illusive man,but this isnt the case.

It is the case, because it makes far more sense, and is not contradicted by any evidence in-game.

[fongiel24]

mosor wrote...
Seriously, the only reason you get to do this with Shep is that it's a video game. In a novel (unless it's the graphic kind) this becomes comical and silly.

Shepard doesn't do this either. Neither Kai Leng nor Shepard are idiots. My point is that Kai Leng doesn't routinely take on heavily armed soldiers with a combat knife while half naked.

mosor wrote...
What more do you want in a kick ass soldier? Great combat
ability, great ability to not only keep his head, but use it too for
his advantage,

I don't want anything more. He is an excellent soldier. I'm just emphasizing that he's not Superman. He has to use his brain and adapt to the situation like everybody else. Had the turians not been distracted, things might have turned out very differently.

mosor wrote...
Come on now. You're twisting things. Kai Leng didn't need 6 people to take on one man and a naked asari. He could do that himself if his mission was to kill them. He needed grayson alive, and the 6 people were about getting grayson off the station undetected. I'm sure even Shepard would be kinda conspicous carrying Grayson over his shoulder on the way out to the normandy,

My original point in bringing this incident up was to be as comprehensive as possible in listing Kai Leng's actions in Retribution, not to judge his execution of the mission. If we're talking about how his execution of the kidnapping though, it's rather sloppily done. Instead of getting in, tranqing Grayson and getting out, his team kicks in the door and ends up in a shootout that leaves one of their number bleeding out on the floor of Grayson's apartment. In addition to Liselle, he leaves two more bodies at the scene. He manages to carry out his mission and get out, but it's hardly a clean operation.

mosor wrote...
There is no reason to compare Shepard's accomplishments to Kai Leng. Kai Leng received the same N7 training. Thats reason enough to believe his is close, if not equal to Shepard's skills.  Shepard isn't a god or a superhero. He was taking out mobs in ME1 even without the cybernetics. There isn't a reason not to assume Kai Leng has similar fighting potential.

They have the same N7 training, but not the same experiences, personalities, or natural aptitudes. Shepard also has additional Spectre training and possibly augmentations. Shepard might not be a god, but he is clearly exceptional, even for a N7 marine or he wouldn't have been chosen to become a Spectre. Kai Leng is an elite soldier and assassin and his skills might very well approach Shepard's, but based on what we have seen in the books and games thus far, Shepard's record is still superior. 

jbblue05 wrote...
You don't like the way he killed Liselle i understand  but he did what he had to do

I don't care that he killed Liselle. It's perfectly understandable that he wouldn't want to leave a witness. I've summarized my objections to the way he carried out the operation above.

jbblue05 wrote...
So why did you bring Shepard into the conversation when I was discussing Kai Leng and Liara and yes Shepard is a badass

Because the overall discussion was about whether TIM had anybody at his disposal that could replace Shepard. You argued Kai Leng shouldn't be underestimated, I'm agreeing that he's not to be underestimated but he's still not Shepard.

jbblue05 wrote...
I'm curious can you give me a source I'm not quite sure how the N7 program works?../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png

Reference for Kai Leng being recruited 10 years prior to ME2: Retribution, page 8.

This is from the Codex: http://masseffect.wi...ms_Alliance:_N7

This is from the ME wiki: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/N7

The "N" part of the designation is for special forces marines. My guess is that Alliance marines have to pass through some sort of training course like Ranger School or SAS Selection to get the "N". The "7" denotes proficiency in the given field, in this case special forces. We don't know how ranks 1-6 work, but based on that second link, marines have to pass a special training program to be rated a 7 (maximum proficiency in the given specialty).

Modifié par fongiel24, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:24 .

[mosor]

Barquiel wrote...

mosor wrote...

Kai Leng received the same N7 training. Thats reason enough to believe his is close, if not equal to Shepard's skills. 

In that case, TIM has wasted 4 billion credits.

As I said above, he spent it because of symbolism. What Shepard represents. Besides, what separates shepard from the rest is gaining loyalty and obedience of others. That's what that Sha'ira's words were about.

@Smudboy- Spectre's are not trained. They're born as the council likes to say. Or more realistically, they take the best the council races have to offer than thus cutting out the need for further training. Besides, even if they did additional training, Shepard had no time to participate.

[mosor]

fongiel24 wrote...


Shepard doesn't do this either. Neither Kai Leng nor Shepard are idiots. My point is that Kai Leng doesn't routinely take on heavily armed soldiers with a combat knife while half naked.

Of course not. My point is like Shep, Kai Leng can suceed dispite the odds by taking advantage of every oportunity that presents itself.

..

I don't want anything more. He is an excellent soldier. I'm just emphasizing that he's not Superman. He has to use his brain and adapt to the situation like everybody else. Had the turians not been distracted, things might have turned out very differently.

Neither is Shepard superman. Because it's a video game, it just comes out that way,

My original point in bringing this incident up was to be as comprehensive as possible in listing Kai Leng's actions in Retribution, not to judge his execution of the mission. If we're talking about how his execution of the kidnapping though, it's rather sloppily done. Instead of getting in, tranqing Grayson and getting out, his team kicks in the door and ends up in a shootout that leaves one of their number bleeding out on the floor of Grayson's apartment. In addition to Liselle, he leaves two more bodies at the scene. He manages to carry out his mission and get out, but it's hardly a clean operation.

He didn't count on liselle being there. Sometimes things go wrong for whatever reason. Happens in ME2 missions as well. The thing is he adapted and suceeded.

They have the same N7 training, but not the same experiences, personalities, or natural aptitudes. Shepard also has additional Spectre training and possibly augmentations. Shepard might not be a god, but he is clearly exceptional, even for a N7 marine or he wouldn't have been chosen to become a Spectre. Kai Leng is an elite soldier and assassin and his skills might very well approach Shepard's, but based on what we have seen in the books and games thus far, Shepard's record is still superior. 

Spectres don't get additional training. You either have the skills and profile already or you don't. There is no spectre camp for wannabies. Really the difference between soldiers at an elite level isn't that significant.  So one guy kills 20 while the other kills 18. You're getting the best of the best. Like olympic 100M race runners, the difference in time is mesured in split seconds, never mind seconds. If they're both N7 marines, they're going to be comparable. Sure Shepard had more oportunties and took advantage of them. I'm sure shepard has better charisma to gain the loyalty of his team better. Howver if you need a special op, Kai Leng may not be as good as Shepard, but he isn't going to be far off from him either,

[fongiel24]

mosor wrote...
Spectres don't get additional training. You either have the skills and profile already or you don't. There is no spectre camp for wannabies. Really the difference between soldiers at an elite level isn't that significant.  So one guy kills 20 while the other kills 18. You're getting the best of the best. Like olympic 100M race runners, the difference in time is mesured in split seconds, never mind seconds. If they're both N7 marines, they're going to be comparable. Sure Shepard had more oportunties and took advantage of them. I'm sure shepard has better charisma to gain the loyalty of his team better. Howver if you need a special op, Kai Leng may not be as good as Shepard, but he isn't going to be far off from him either,

http://masseffect.wi...pectre_Training

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Spectres

Spectres do get additional training upon being accepted. Shepard even gets an entire new skill progression called "Spectre Training" after his induction. As for Spectre camps, they actually do exist because Garrus enters one run by the turian military after ME1 if you pushed him towards the Renegade path.

Elite soldiers might be largely interchangeable (they have to be to work as a unit), but lone intelligence operatives like Spectres aren't. Factors like natural instincts, personality, and experience play a role in determining whether an operative gets to retirement age or gets iced on his first job. Shepard isn't selected for the Spectres because he can shoot the straightest, can clear a killhouse the fastest, or can do the most pushups. Shepard is selected because he's perceived to be the most resourceful, the most mentally tough, and has shown that he consistently makes good decisions while under fire.

Modifié par fongiel24, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[mosor]

fongiel24 wrote...


http://masseffect.wi...pectre_Training

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Spectres

That spectre training skill in ME1 just reflects on the job experience as part of an RPG. There is no formal training. The salarian councilor upon your induction as a spectre makes that clear. That skill even became defunct in ME2, because gameplay wise it wasn't necessary. All you get from the council is special gear and immunity from the law. That's it.

As for Spectre camps, they actually do exist because Garrus enters one run by the turian military after ME1 if you pushed him towards the Renegade path.

Yes they exist for turians. Kinda like pre law prep courses. They're not camps for spectres who are already made to gain new skills.

Elite soldiers might be largely interchangeable (they have to be to work as a unit), but lone intelligence operatives like Spectres aren't. Factors like natural instincts, personality, and experience play a role in determining whether an operative gets to retirement age or gets iced on his first job. Shepard isn't selected for the Spectres because he can shoot the straightest, can clear a killhouse the fastest, or can do the most pushups. Shepard is selected because he's perceived to be the most resourceful, the most mentally tough, and has shown that he consistently makes good decisions while under fire.

Well Kai Leng would never have been a canidate because of his criminal record and xenophobia. However, N7's are not just elite soldiers. They're special OP's themselves. I've not and never have said, Kai Leng is better than Shep. I'm just saying he is probably comparable skill wise. If the mission was to take out the shadow broker. Kai Leng is a pretty solid guy to use.

Modifié par mosor, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:25 .

[fongiel24]

mosor wrote...

That spectre training skill in ME1 just reflects on the job experience as part of an RPG. There is no formal training. The salarian councilor upon your induction as a spectre makes that clear. That skill even became defunct in ME2, because gameplay wise it wasn't necessary. All you get from the council is special gear and immunity from the law. That's it.

"You'll get access to special equipment and training now. You should go down to the C-Sec Academy and speak to the Spectre requisitions officer." - David Anderson after Shepard's induction into the Spectres (4:41 mark).

The game calls it Spectre training and Anderson calls it Spectre training. I'm pretty sure it's Spectre training. The Spectres cherry pick the best and the brightest from each race and give them additional training to turn them into the deadliest solo operatives in the galaxy. They're obviously not taking raw recruits, but there is additional training available for Spectres. The skill is removed in ME2 because Shepard's Spectre status was revoked upon death and depending on player choice, might not be restored.

[Zsura]

Cerberus knows the location of the SB base, and TIM knows about Liara acting as SB. And TIM is one of the most power hungry people in the galaxy - and he could use the SB's network. (Of course for humanity's best interests, lol). TIM will try to takeover the SB's position - maybe with an attack against Liara.

What do you think?

If Shepard and TIM are on good terms (i.e. Shep saved the Collector Base), then there's no reason for TIM to be anything but happy about Liara becoming the new SB. Shepard is part of the Cerberus family, and Liara is effectively working for Shepard.

If Shepard blew the base, TIM has to be getting a bit nervous after the events of LotSB. Paragon Shepard on the loose with non-Cerberus backing is his second worst nightmare (the first being the Reapers). Shepard is one of the few forces in the galaxy capable of hunting him down and killing him, and now she has Liara to help her find where TIM really is. So taking over the SB network is probably less a concern for TIM than avoiding paragon Shep's wrath. He'd be better off trying to make amends with paragon Shep and hope that he can join Shepard and the new SB in a coalition of necessity to oppose the reapers.

The real question is whether Shep goes hunting for TIM now that she doesn't need him. I think I read that in the Retributions novel, TIM started experimenting with reaper tech and almost let Harbinger back into the galaxy. If Shepard finds that out, she really ought to go kill him (and possibly assimilate Cerberus into Liara's organization). How can she fight the Reapers when TIM's gotten so stupid he almost lets them back in through the front door? I'm sort of amazed that BioWare published that story, if that's what happens in the novel. Both Paragon and Renegade Shepard ought to be thoroughly enraged by that. Anything that endangers Shepard's mission against the Reapers has to be completely unacceptable to her, no matter how she feels about Cerberus. She expected TIM to be back home installing smoke alarms and fire extinguishers, but instead, he's been lighting off roman candles in the living room and almost burned the house down. He's so grounded.

[krimesh]

Zsura wrote...
The real question is whether Shep goes hunting for TIM now that she doesn't need him. I think I read that in the Retributions novel, TIM started experimenting with reaper tech and almost let Harbinger back into the galaxy. If Shepard finds that out, she really ought to go kill him (and possibly assimilate Cerberus into Liara's organization). How can she fight the Reapers when TIM's gotten so stupid he almost lets them back in through the front door? I'm sort of amazed that BioWare published that story, if that's what happens in the novel. Both Paragon and Renegade Shepard ought to be thoroughly enraged by that. Anything that endangers Shepard's mission against the Reapers has to be completely unacceptable to her, no matter how she feels about Cerberus. She expected TIM to be back home installing smoke alarms and fire extinguishers, but instead, he's been lighting off roman candles in the living room and almost burned the house down. He's so grounded.

It all comes down to The Illusive Man being a dangerous idiot. He was in ME1, in ME2, in Ascension, and Retribution, and there is no reason for him to change. When the Cerberus cheerleaders who have been attracted to this thread by the smell of fresh ground for old circular reasoning wake up however, I am sure they will be delighted to explain to you why they think that everything Cerberus did was the most intelligent thing to do, and how the Illusive Man will rule the galaxy.
And Mass Effect does encourage different opinions on this matters, so it's okay.

I am not so sure that it makes sense for (an anti-Cerberus) Shep to go after Cerberus right away. We know that Shep did not before Retribution, and after Retribution TIM's recklessness is restrained by lack of resources, so he probably won't be a big threat. If a good opportunity to snuff out what is left of Cerberus presents itself, Shep might choose to, though. But no need to waste a lot of time and resources.

P.S.: The novel itself presents no evidence whatsoever that making Greyson a Reaper-doll could have helped the Reapers to return. In fact Grayson, who had become something like Saren, albeit he had tried to fight off the Reaper-influence, went after Ascension project data, which is research data on gifted human children, in biotics and otherwise. He transmitted part of this data to the Reapers. It is not clear if this data has any influence on how effective the Reaper's actual invasion will be - possibly not. However, the indoctrinated and implanted Grayson had been an immensely dangerous entity, directly controlled by his Reaper-masters. Some argue that Greyson escaping the Cerberus research facility was not Cerberus' fault. His escape was made possible by a Turian attack, initiated by David Anderson and Kahlee Sanders, how knew nothing of the experiments, but were trying to rescue Greyson.

Modifié par krimesh, 14 septembre 2010 - 01:00 .

[tonnactus]

McAllyster wrote...

So Liara is not a weak character - I think anyone who want to kill her is in a great trouble. ]

Like shiala told,benezia was a very strong biotic even in asari society.And liara is her daughter.(as a pureblood,nearly
identical talents)

[tonnactus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It is the case, because it makes far more sense, and is not contradicted by any evidence in-game.

After retribution i rather think they are not clever enough for even such a plan.When someone like grayson could collect
data without problems that nearly destroyed cerberus...
Its a miracle that the shepardt project actually worked,with a lot of luck of course.

[jbblue05]

tonnactus wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It is the case, because it makes far more sense, and is not contradicted by any evidence in-game.

After retribution i rather think they are not clever enough for even such a plan.When someone like grayson could collect
data without problems that nearly destroyed cerberus...
Its a miracle that the shepardt project actually worked,with a lot of luck of course.

And Cerberus could collect data on Liara that could cripple her operation. Cerberus still has its base of operations and can still rebuild. TIM is clever he didn't make Cerberus a powerful organization by accident.

Grayson didn't collect data without problems Kai Leng was sent to capture him Grayson got an extra few seconds to send data to Sanders

Its completely stupid on TIM's part to send Shepard to take down the SB unless their is another motive

[Zsura]

I am not so sure that it makes sense for (an anti-Cerberus) Shep to go after Cerberus right away. We know that Shep did not before Retribution, and after Retribution TIM's recklessness is restrained by lack of resources, so he probably won't be a big threat. If a good opportunity to snuff out what is left of Cerberus presents itself, Shep might choose to, though. But no need to waste a lot of time and resources.

His escape was made possible by a Turian attack, initiated by David Anderson and Kahlee Sanders, how knew nothing of the experiments, but were trying to rescue Greyson.

Even so, I don't think that the Reapers are a subject on which Shepard will give anyone the benefit of the doubt. If TIM did something that allowed Harbinger to make mischief, Shepard will at least get in his face about it.

You imply that after Retribution that Cerberus is so poor that they can no longer sustain operations. Is that actually in the book? If so, maybe that's BioWare writing them out of the story. Cerberus blows all their cash being stupid right as Liara becomes the SB, so Shep ditches them for Liara's organization. That would be sort of an... anticlimactic... resolution to Cerberus. I was hoping paragon Shep gets to arrest TIM and turn him over to the Council or the Alliance, and then, after he's been frog-marched out the door, she'd install Miranda as the new head of Cerberus. That would all be part of getting her forces organized for her next confrontation with the Reapers.